Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[CriticalGaming]

versimilitude

is a word that is very hard to spell.

 

[Agema]

Amazon is not, and will never be "woke."

It will be as woke as it is forced to be by laws and customer pressure.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

So no apology for saying I can't even read the article I posted when you were the one the couldn't read it properly?

I don't think you get to ask apologies of anyone.

 

[Silvanus]

I have, actually. And worse (a cricket ball).

Somehow, I managed to survive both experiences. And I'm going to go on a limb and assume that even if I didn't, it wouldn't be evidence that a blitzball could harm, let alone kill not!Godzilla. 0_0

The bit that always looked silly to me wasn't the fact that the ball was a weapon; it was the fact it always neatly flew back to him.

It looked positively ridiculous in the fight against Evrae, where he throws it 30 metres and it plops right back into his hand after hitting.

 

[Jarrito3002]

Spoken like youve never been hit in the fa e by a soccer ball.

Hell throw in a basketball and those pre crisis dodgeballs. Honestly Wakka and Tidus are living super human weapons if the athleticism they display and blitzball games translate on to land.

I don't really buy that logic, that we have to treat the narratives of videogames at a lower standard than other forms of media.

There's a difference between Ada's dress and Wakka's balls, in that at the least, Wakka's balls is directly related to game mechanics, and has some lore to fall back on. That said, FFX is really bonkers, period. Dive into its worldbuilding, and the cracks appear quickly. Ada's dress, on the other hand, is purely stylistic.

Also, you're confusing RE2 with RE4. RE2 doesn't really have a problem with it, since Ada's already in a civilian environment, and undercover at that, and the dress she's wearing there is still more practical than RE4. There's a reasonable rationale for Ada's attire in RE2 that doesn't exist for RE4. I mean, Leon doesn't go into rural Spain wearing a tuxedo, does he? (optional skins notwithstanding).

As for letting people have their hentai, yes, I agree, people are free to consume what media they want. Still, I think it's fair to evaluate game narratives, and that includes versimilitude. For instance, I'm not about to demand that the Mario series change course to please me, but I'm not about to pretend that Peach is something more than just a damsel in distress for Mario to save either.

FFX worldbuilding on a scale of other FF Worlds baring maybe Ivilese is pretty par for the course but I am biased as FFX is my favorite Final Fantasy game.

 

[Silvanus]

is a word that is very hard to spell.

As proven by Hawki missing that tricky 'i'.

 

[Agema]

It looked positively ridiculous in the fight against Evrae, where he throws it 30 metres and it plops right back into his hand after hitting.

This is a stock fantasy RPG idea. The idea is you get weapons, and they need to be balanced so for some reason daggers are useful as swords, otherwise your knife-fighter is intrinsically inferior and that spoils the fun for anyone who wants to make a knife-fighter PC. Anyway, some of these weapons are magic, and it's not fun to have a one-shot throwing weapon when magic swords can hit forever and magic bows can fire forever, so they magically return to hand after use.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I don't think you get to ask apologies of anyone.

Why not? Aren't you all for being inclusive of everyone? I'm never disrespectful to anyone here.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

You provided your evidence and utterly failed to connect it to your point

Maybe you should look up what gaslight means

Oh I know what it means.

I said people in their thread were conflating me with groups I'm not part of and denying said aspect of self identification.

I posted examples of implicit to fairly explicit attempts to do that by people in this thread.

You then claimed that wasn't going on.
That IS gaslighting.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Why not? Aren't you all for being inclusive of everyone? I'm never disrespectful to anyone here.

You're consistently intellectually insulting.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And yet you can't actually cite an article.

I generally don't have an encyclopaedia knowledge of all such articles to pull up on demand so here's some

Cancelling ‘Vagrant Queen’ Flies in the Face of SYFY’s “Dedication” to Diversity & Representation

Canceling Vagrant Queen proves once again that SYFY doesn't truly care for diversity or representation. They're all talk and I've reached the end of my rope wit

fangirlish.com

10 Reasons to Watch Vagrant Queen’s Single Perfect Season - Reactor

The amount of shows with Black female leads are in the single digits. And the amount that are also sapphic? Could be counted on one hand. Vagrant Queen follows Elida/Eldaya, played by Adriyan Rae, a Black female alien queen who is on the run from her planet’s people after seeing revolutionaries...

www.tor.com

So not a source at all, just a claim that because something else happens in X, it must be the case of Y.

Generally known as a precedent.

I can't comment on the Charmed reboot, so maybe they did that. As for America Chavez...what, the character that caused Multiverse of Madness to be censored in Saudi Arabia due to LGBT content? Y'know, I detest wokeism as much as the next person, but I'd have thought THAT would be the bigger issue here.

Based on how the characters comic book run went and the attempts to dismiss dissenters. Yeh it's how it does seemingly go.

But even all that aside, don't you see the double standard of your own that's being applied? For instance, let's say that, for instance, I agree with Trunkage that Pete and Jackie Tyler are poorly written. Let's also reiterate that I think that Graham, Ryan, and Yasmine are also poorly written, and narrow it down to Ryan and Yasmine. So in this scenario:

Jackie & Pete: Poorly written characters.

Yaz & Ryan: Chibnall is forcing an SJW agenda because these characters are poorly written

If we want to talk about patterns being repeated, the one I see is that if minorities are poorly written, it's evidence of some kind of 'agenda,' and not, y'know, just poor writing. If you want an example of this, take Rose Tico from Last Jedi. Now, Rose has never been one of my favourite characters, but the argument being made wasn't "hey, this character isn't that great," it was the idea that Johnson had employed "forced diversity" that put Rose in. Because if any POC is in a work of fiction and isn't written well, it HAS to be due to some kind of agenda. It can't be, y'know, just down to the writing itself. The same thing happened with Michael Burnham on Star Trek. No, I don't like Burnham much as a character, no, I don't like Discovery much, but to all the SQWs out there, you could change Burnham into some blonde, blue eyed Aryan, and that WOULDN"T CHANGE ANYTHING.

It irritates me on two levels because first, I can see the double standard, and two, it means that if I ever criticize any of these characters, I have to be wary that people might cast me into the bad faith crowd. And yes, sometimes, creators do that, but honestly, 'fans' do it a lot more. There's a reason why the term "Fandom Menace" exists in the Star Wars fandom, this being the same crowd that bullied Jake Floyd, nearly drove Ahmed Best to suicide, and Kelly Marie Tran off social media.

Because the easy move is to give a poorly written character a "diverse" background then easily dismiss anyone objecting to it.

It's forced diversity because it tries to force the conversation about the character being "Diverse" and not well written or not forcing that to the forefront of the character's identity quite often.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Examples of that would be what?

Let's say though for arguments sake that you're correct - that would still mean that feminism is playing catch-up to most male protagonists. Certainly when it comes to the action genre.

Oh you mean like:

Atomic Blonde
Aeon Flux
The Tomb Raider films
The Underworld Franchise
Salt
Ultraviolet
Sicario
Charlie's Angels
Kick Ass
Mortal Engines
New Mutants
Alita
Happy Death Day 2 U
Wonder Woman
Jumanji Welcome to the Jungle & The Next Level
Suicide Squad & The Suicide Squad
The Villainess
The Courier
Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets
The Fifth Element
The Hunger Games Franchise
The Allegiant Franchise
Kill Bill
Live Die Repeat
Ghost in the Shell

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Well, I disagree with Crit on a lot, but if we're talking about Batwoman and Supergirl?

Well, here's Batwoman's trailer:


And if we're talking about Supergirl, it's explicitly feminist in season 2. This isn't me projecting, there's actual character lines such as "the future is female" and the characters celebrating a female president (as opposed to "the other guy" who ran for office), even as said president is flying Air Force One directly towards an alien mothership.

Supergirl is okay overall (moreso season 2 than season 1, haven't watched beyond that), but there's a lot of cringeworthy material in there. Contrast that to something like Last Jedi, where gender is never mentioned once, or in Ghostbusters 2016, where the only time the gender of the protagonists is drawn attention to is when the antagonist is hurling insults at them.

Except that's kind of where part of the lazy writing comes in that the antagonist is always some dude deemed "Weird" who chooses to attack the characters for being weird. It's a proxy to show how said creators feel about certain groups and basically strawman their positions and mock said groups or people..

Supergirl Season 1 had it's moments like the alien early on who says something like "On my planet women serve their men like they're supposed to" but season 1 was heavily balanced out by Kat Grant basically being the mouthpiece for some-one of the writing staff who hated the latest wave of feminism and the bullshit with it and wanted to show why it was bad but previous waves were better.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

The problem is that 90% of what I've seen you complain about is based on a misunderstanding of what feminism is. I actually don't know what you do stand for because, well... you don't really stand up for anything. I know a lot about what you hate, most of it petty and inconsequential, but I don't know what your actual values are if any. Throw me a bone. What is a problem that you consider a priority? If I've got nothing, I'll admit it.

So you're telling me it's not about buying £30 shirts saying "This is what a Feminist looks like" made by women in indian Sweatshops being paid next to nothing for their work just so people can profit and pretend to look good?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

We know you lack imagination. No need to continue reminding us.

And thank you for admitting most of what you take offense to is imaginary then by that logic.

Or Rambo: First Blood Part II. Remember, it took a movie that was a scathing indictment of America's treatment of its veterans, and turned the franchise into a conservative power fantasy of shooting all the commies, all of them. That gets a free pass, though, doesn't it?

Because it then went into a sort o fantasy redemption story arc almost following what many veterans would probably like to be able to do where they go back and rescue their friends and feel they're useful again?

It's not objectively a problem, but there's three potential issues with it:

1: For the viewer, it's potentially demeaning. For instance, playing Xenoblade 2, it's kind of embarassing seeing Pyra on screen in her scantily-clad glory, while every other character has something at least approaching normal clothes. I recall a games journalist stating how his wife walked in on him while he was playing, and he was embarassed because Pyra was on the screen, and, yeah, I agree.

2: It sexualizes women in a way that men rarely are.

3: It hinders believability. Using Resident Evil for instance, why, in RE3, does Jill have a tube top on in light of flesh-eating ghouls? Why, in RE4, is Ada hiking through rural Spain in a red dress? Why, in Revelation, is Jessica going out into the field with high heels? I mean, come on Capcom, you can do better than this.

I like boobs as much as the next guy, but I can still spot the double standard.

So the bioengineered virus reanimating the dead is fine but the tube top isn't?

I'm not sure if it is popular these days, but even so, it's a pretty lazy trope. This isn't even necessarily a gendered thing, if I create a character in a story for the sole sake of that character being rescued, then how much of a character is that character?

Or, to put it another way, characters like Amy Rose, Princess Zelda, and Princess Peach, all started out as damsels in distress. Amy and Zelda stopped being DIDs along the way and are all the better for it. Peach, on the other hand, is still being rescued by Mario. That's fine, that's Nintendo's prerogative, but if Peach is still being saved over thirty years later, then don't be surprised that not many people like her character.

Lady Thor was the best selling Thor run in quite some time. The manchildren rebelled online, but as a comic run it was a success, more so than male Thor. I don't know the stats for X-23 Wolverine but it's certainly the most interesting thing to happen to the Wolverine brand that wasn't a one shot.

Based on a average which included a first issue that sold a good 10 times more than any in the rest of the run lol

Nah, fuck this argument.

Criticism has been part of art for as long as art has existed. Its integral to it. Shutting down criticism because you don't like it or agree with it leads to stagnant art.

I criticise stuff because I want it to be better. If everyone had just shut up and kept all their comments and preferences to themselves, we'd still be stuck with the most tedious, cookie-cutter stories from the 19th century.

I say fuck the argument right back then because it's fucking stupid to argue you're view should by in any way respected when you completely miss the point of a work. I shouldn't be taken seriously if I were to criticise the lack of sex and violence in Jane Austin's works and come out with a claim it needs more. I should be laughed out the fucking room because I'd be missing the point of Jane Austin's works and what people like in them.

Okay, but you hate when they're sexy on Twitch...

I've seen the underside of that, I don't know how people can be ok or defend what is exploitation of some fairly vulnerable people in some cases.

 

[Elijin]

Based on a average which included a first issue that sold a good 10 times more than any in the rest of the run lol

So? The series consistently performed better than both the Thor it replaced AND the Unworthy Thor (the original dude who she replaced) that ran alongside it.

Pointing out it didn't match issue #1 numbers it's entire run is a sad attempt to devalue my point. Especially in comics where issue #1 often outperforms due to speculation on the collectable value of issue #1's.

It's very literally a case of complaints about changing a stagnant character who struggled to move solo comics, to something (a girl! shock, horror, gasp) which IMPROVED sales during it's run.

 

[Breakdown]

Nah, fuck this argument.

Criticism has been part of art for as long as art has existed. Its integral to it. Shutting down criticism because you don't like it or agree with it leads to stagnant art.

I criticise stuff because I want it to be better. If everyone had just shut up and kept all their comments and preferences to themselves, we'd still be stuck with the most tedious, cookie-cutter stories from the 19th century.

That cuts both ways though. There's a clear tendency in the media at the minute to silence criticism because these particular critics are alt right or far right or whatever. Don't like the Last Jedi? You're a nazi.

 

[Buyetyen]

That cuts both ways though. There's a clear tendency in the media at the minute to silence criticism because these particular critics are alt right or far right or whatever. Don't like the Last Jedi? You're a nazi.

Criticism is only valid if it's done in good faith. The majority of alt-right media critique is either in bad faith or so stupid it can't be taken seriously.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So? The series consistently performed better than both the Thor it replaced AND the Unworthy Thor (the original dude who she replaced) that ran alongside it.

Which was he lowest selling in the Thor comics history at that point.
So you're arguing it was a success because the first issue sold better than the worst selling period in the Thor series history?

Pointing out it didn't match issue #1 numbers it's entire run is a sad attempt to devalue my point. Especially in comics where issue #1 often outperforms due to speculation on the collectable value of issue #1's.

Yes but not to that degree such that the drop off was pretty crazy from the numbers I saw.

It's very literally a case of complaints about changing a stagnant character who struggled to move solo comics, to something (a girl! shock, horror, gasp) which IMPROVED sales during it's run.

Marginally improved them only really doing well with the first issue and ok with the 2nd before the major drop off started.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Criticism is only valid if it's done in good faith. The majority of alt-right media critique is either in bad faith or so stupid it can't be taken seriously.

How do you know the critic is alt right?

In before magical telepathy powers or "Because they dare be critical of certain things to begin with as anyone not alt-right knows not to criticise those things"