SCOTUS leak suggests Roe v. Wade to be overturned

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Thaluikhain

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I believe in democracy; what I don't believe is that humanity has evolved [mentally] to the point that it actually works. We need a kind-hearted dictator with the best interest of everyone in mind who doesn't give a shit what "we" think, because "we" are a bunch of easily-led, easily-fooled idiots. Basically, our political system needs needs bumper rails not unlike one might find at a family-friendly bowling alley.
Democracy might not work per se, but it still works better than trying to get such a dictator and letting them run things, I'm afraid. Having said that, there's a lot that could be done to make democracy work less badly.
 

Cheetodust

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Just got back from a visit with a friend who, over a drink, assured me that he want's Roe v. Wade overturned. He was very resolute that it needed to be overturned. I asked why he felt that way, and he said "because it's a woman's right to decide whether or not to carry any pregnancy to term!"... I had to inform him that that's exactly what Roe v. Wade does, and overturning it would remove that right. His response? "Oh, then yeah, keep it!"

This is democracy: a bunch of ill-informed people voting on legislation that they know nothing about, but are simultaneously very passionate about taking a side in. This asshole was ready to run to the polls and, in complete ignorance, vote people into office that diametrically oppose his own core beliefs. I believe in democracy; what I don't believe is that humanity has evolved [mentally] to the point that it actually works. We need a kind-hearted dictator with the best interest of everyone in mind who doesn't give a shit what "we" think, because "we" are a bunch of easily-led, easily-fooled idiots. Basically, our political system needs needs bumper rails not unlike one might find at a family-friendly bowling alley.
During our repeal the 8th campaign a lot of time was spent explaining very slowly that "if you want abortion legalised you have to tick yes".
 
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Thaluikhain

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During our repeal the 8th campaign a lot of time was spent explaining very slowly that "if you want abortion legalised you have to tick yes".
We were worried they'd pull something like that for our gay marriage referendum, they did a bit of that with our Republic referendum.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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State's Rights!


No, not like that

This quote was particularly vile:
An Oklahoma Democrat, Cyndi Munson, in an exchange on the House floor with a Republican sponsor of the bill, said that many women — especially young girls who may be victims of incest — do not report rapes or incest to law enforcement.

“Can you explain to me why you’re OK with a person carrying on a pregnancy after they have been raped or there has been instances of incest?” Ms. Munson asked. “You understand what incest is, correct? You are OK with that?”

“I am OK with preserving the life of the child,” Wendi Stearman, the Republican sponsor, responded. “The child was not part of that decision,”
Yeah, the child *clearly* wasn't part of that decision, fucking ghouls.
 

Seanchaidh

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This is democracy: a bunch of ill-informed people voting on legislation that they know nothing about, but are simultaneously very passionate about taking a side in. This asshole was ready to run to the polls and, in complete ignorance, vote people into office that diametrically oppose his own core beliefs. I believe in democracy; what I don't believe is that humanity has evolved [mentally] to the point that it actually works. We need a kind-hearted dictator with the best interest of everyone in mind who doesn't give a shit what "we" think, because "we" are a bunch of easily-led, easily-fooled idiots. Basically, our political system needs needs bumper rails not unlike one might find at a family-friendly bowling alley.
You've managed to combine the worst aspects of both idealism and defeatism to come up with a political philosophy that is both completely unworkable and depressingly bleak. Pick, at most, one of those.
 

Xprimentyl

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You've managed to combine the worst aspects of both idealism and defeatism to come up with a political philosophy that is both completely unworkable and depressingly bleak. Pick, at most, one of those.
It's called "flippant hyperbole," but if I must choose a side, I'll go with defeatism. If nothing else, these past few years have taught me that all it takes is a citrus fruit with a bad haircut to incite the self-righteousness of a lot of people harboring ideals that sum up the worst of what it means to be an American. It's 2022; we've got cars that can drive themselves and private citizens are going into space, yet we've still masses of idiots just waiting for the call to drive us back into the 19th century with ignorance, bigotry, violence and self-importance that ironically supersedes democracy, y'know, the core principle "their" country is ostensibly founded upon. Peaceful protests? BAD!!! But feel free to violently storm the capitol when you don't get your way because an exorbitantly rich and cartoonishly flamboyant baboon tells you he didn't get his way, and it's "somehow" bad for you. #Murica #LetMeOut
 

Thaluikhain

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It's called "flippant hyperbole," but if I must choose a side, I'll go with defeatism. If nothing else, these past few years have taught me that all it takes is a citrus fruit with a bad haircut to incite the self-righteousness of a lot of people harboring ideals that sum up the worst of what it means to be an American. It's 2022; we've got cars that can drive themselves and private citizens are going into space, yet we've still masses of idiots just waiting for the call to drive us back into the 19th century with ignorance, bigotry, violence and self-importance that ironically supersedes democracy, y'know, the core principle "their" country is ostensibly founded upon. Peaceful protests? BAD!!! But feel free to violently storm the capitol when you don't get your way because an exorbitantly rich and cartoonishly flamboyant baboon tells you he didn't get his way, and it's "somehow" bad for you. #Murica #LetMeOut
Always seemed a bit optimistic to emulate the Athenians so much. After the plague their political system couldn't deal with demagogues and the thing collapsed after a few centuries.
 

Agema

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Always seemed a bit optimistic to emulate the Athenians so much. After the plague their political system couldn't deal with demagogues and the thing collapsed after a few centuries.
Well... this isn't quite what happened.

The initial Athenian democracy was discredited by the horrendous failure of the Sicilian Expedition, and declining fortunes in the Peloponnesian War. Bar a brief oligarchy, democracy survived until the final surrender to Sparta. The Spartans imposed another oligarchy, but it only lasted eight months before being overthrown and democracy restored. The Athenian democracy disappeared for good after Greece was taken over by Macedonia and Athens lost its independence.
 

Thaluikhain

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Well... this isn't quite what happened.

The initial Athenian democracy was discredited by the horrendous failure of the Sicilian Expedition, and declining fortunes in the Peloponnesian War. Bar a brief oligarchy, democracy survived until the final surrender to Sparta. The Spartans imposed another oligarchy, but it only lasted eight months before being overthrown and democracy restored. The Athenian democracy disappeared for good after Greece was taken over by Macedonia and Athens lost its independence.
I meant they were able to fairly quickly go from mighty regional power to executing Socrates as a scapegoat for not being a power anymore, in large part because of poor decision making by the voters.
 

Agema

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During our repeal the 8th campaign a lot of time was spent explaining very slowly that "if you want abortion legalised you have to tick yes".
Ireland is generally held to a place that does referenda the right way. Spend fucking ages doing a public consultation and producing thorough information to disseminate across the population, then have a vote.

As opposed to certain other countries, where they quickly whip up a campaign on a whim and give anyone who fancies a few weeks-months to plaster lies and misinformation over the country, breaking election law with no meaningful penalty whatsoever.
 

Phoenixmgs

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"RGB said it was argued poorly, so I'm going to use her as an argument while coming to the complete opposite conclusion"

And it specifically puts those other things in danger based on the reasoning on why Roe is invalid, and you can tell based on ALL OF THE EXAMPLES OF TRIGGER LAWS CAUSING BIRTH CONTROL TO BE ILLEGAL. Pay attention for once in your goddamned life. What, is every legal scholar, INCLUDING THE CHEERING CONSERVATIVE ONES, just not as smart as you?
WTF are you even going on about? I haven't seen any posting of legal scholars in this thread or legal discussion. And how did I come to the opposite conclusion of RBG? And how does saying gay marriage isn't in danger relate to birth control?


If house prices existed in a complete vacuum, and you eliminated all other factors of society, this might hold some water.

I mean, still not much.
Cost of living and jobs are like the biggest factor in where you want to live.
 

Cheetodust

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Cost of living and jobs are like the biggest factor in where you want to live.
That doesn't prove that because one single factor (lower house costs) in republican states means minorities have better opportunities there. I'm not even making the positive statement that republican states are worse here. You have to know that that doesn't prove your point in the slightest. Pretty sure house prices are lower in Tehran than Dublin, I still know which place I'd rather be gay.
 

Phoenixmgs

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That's literally why people are leaving many blue dominant states and cities.



That doesn't prove that because one single factor (lower house costs) in republican states means minorities have better opportunities there. I'm not even making the positive statement that republican states are worse here. You have to know that that doesn't prove your point in the slightest. Pretty sure house prices are lower in Tehran than Dublin, I still know which place I'd rather be gay.
Uhh... going from Ireland to Iran is quite a bit different than going from LA, Chicago, NYC to say Texas.
 

Cheetodust

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That's literally why people are leaving many blue dominant states and cities.




Uhh... going from Ireland to Iran is quite a bit different than going from LA, Chicago, NYC to say Texas.
Man it was a joke to point out the absurdity of your claim. One factor. You named one factor and claimed that proves minorities have better opportunities in republican states. Even if that is the biggest factor it doesn't prove that it outweighs all of the other factors combined. You can't genuinely be that dense?

Edit: also the idea that people are moving to more Conservative states doesn't prove that those people are minorities. Like nothing you've said holds water. Even by your incredible lack of standards for proof you have nothing here. You're a grown up and that is astounding to me.
 
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Trunkage

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Uhh... going from Ireland to Iran is quite a bit different than going from LA, Chicago, NYC to say Texas.
I would suggest you look up the news about what's happening in Texas

Like, if these suite of law get through that Abbot is pushing for, I would count Iran as more progressive on transrights and homosexuality than Texas
 

Silvanus

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Like, if these suite of law get through that Abbot is pushing for, I would count Iran as more progressive on transrights and homosexuality than Texas
Sorry, but that is some bull.
 

Agema

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Sorry, but that is some bull.
It's probably not bull on trans rights.

Although that said, whilst Iran accepts transition, as I recall it's not doing it from some sort of place of love and tolerance.