Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Gordon_4]

The case should not have been televised.

No court case should be televised.

 

[Agema]

No court case should be televised.

There is strong logic to televise court cases. In many jurisdictions, the justice system is supposed to be transparent and court cases are actually public events with open access. Given this principle, observers reasonably should not be limited to who can fit into the spectator space of a courtroom when the means exist to expand access. Secondly, being able to see court cases offers a learning opportunity to help the general public understand the court system, which is theoretically beneficial in countries with jury systems because they may help potential jurors better understand their role and what goes on.

Although I think if open, parties involved in a case may of course reasonable ask for limited access with a compelling reason. Although whether "media shitshow" is a good enough reason is open to question.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Welcome to woke world where now apparently if you think men could be the actual victim of abuse you're alt-right

Er, no. That's not the point.

I've been avoiding the Depp/Heard trial because frankly, I agree, the way people talk about it and the way it is being represented in popular culture is disgusting and it is entirely correct to point that out.

I don't care if Amber Heard cried weirdly. I don't even particularly care if her testimony wasn't consistent. That doesn't make her guilty of anything. She's not even on trial for domestic abuse, she's being sued for defamation. Johnny Depp already tried to sue her in the UK and lost. He will probably lose this case as well. There are audio recordings of him talking about hitting her, despite the fact he still claims he never did. The facts of this case are all pretty well established and suggest that both sides engaged in a degree of violence, although it's unclear whether there was an overall pattern of coercive control. The only question this trial is answering is whether Heard has the right to say that she was abused.

And honestly, if anything leaps out as a massive red flag here it's that Depp keeps suing Heard despite the likelihood that he will lose, and that he continues to lie about never having been physically violent when recordings exist of him talking about being violent. That raises the question of what he is aiming to get out of it, and the most obvious answer is that he's just doing it to hurt Amber Heard. It just seems like Depp using his wealth and public visibility to punish his ex by forcing her to defend herself in court over and over again, and if anything in this case looks like abuse..

I don't give the tiniest fuck if you like Johnny Depp's public persona and want to watch the Pirates of the Carribean movies without feeling sad. Amber Heard is not a psychopath because she looked weird when she cried. Stop literally recreating the plot of The Stranger and stop spectating people at the worst points in their lives (even if they try and invite you to).

 

[Agema]

I've been avoiding the Depp/Heard trial because frankly, I agree, the way people talk about it and the way it is being represented in popular culture is disgusting and it is entirely correct to point that out.

It's also vacuous because to a large extent it's just a lump of clay for people to mould with their own prejudices, so all you tend to end up hearing are their pre-existing ideological biases anyway.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And honestly, if anything leaps out as a massive red flag here it's that Depp keeps suing Heard despite the likelihood that he will lose, and that he continues to lie about never having been physically violent when recordings exist of him talking about being violent. That raises the question of what he is aiming to get out of it, and the most obvious answer is that he's just doing it to hurt Amber Heard. It just seems like Depp using his wealth and public visibility to punish his ex by forcing her to defend herself in court over and over again, and if anything in this case looks like abuse..

Is it not likely that it's at least partially done for his career? When people believed her, he was shuffled out of the Fantastic Beasts films, and now that public opinion has shifted against her her parts in Aquaman 2 have but severely cut down (or so I'm led to believe). Possibly he's hoping that if he smears her hard enough his career will go back to normal.

 

[Gordon_4]

Er, no. That's not the point.

I've been avoiding the Depp/Heard trial because frankly, I agree, the way people talk about it and the way it is being represented in popular culture is disgusting and it is entirely correct to point that out.

I don't care if Amber Heard cried weirdly. I don't even particularly care if her testimony wasn't consistent. That doesn't make her guilty of anything. She's not even on trial for domestic abuse, she's being sued for defamation. Johnny Depp already tried to sue her in the UK and lost. He will probably lose this case as well. There are audio recordings of him talking about hitting her, despite the fact he still claims he never did. The facts of this case are all pretty well established and suggest that both sides engaged in a degree of violence, although it's unclear whether there was an overall pattern of coercive control. The only question this trial is answering is whether Heard has the right to say that she was abused.

And honestly, if anything leaps out as a massive red flag here it's that Depp keeps suing Heard despite the likelihood that he will lose, and that he continues to lie about never having been physically violent when recordings exist of him talking about being violent. That raises the question of what he is aiming to get out of it, and the most obvious answer is that he's just doing it to hurt Amber Heard. It just seems like Depp using his wealth and public visibility to punish his ex by forcing her to defend herself in court over and over again, and if anything in this case looks like abuse..

I don't give the tiniest fuck if you like Johnny Depp's public persona and want to watch the Pirates of the Carribean movies without feeling sad. Amber Heard is not a psychopath because she looked weird when she cried. Stop literally recreating the plot of The Stranger and stop spectating people at the worst points in their lives (even if they try and invite you to).

Well boy have I got news for you. Depp won this case for defamation

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Er, no. That's not the point.

Johnny Depp already tried to sue her in the UK and lost. He will probably lose this case as well.

He won.

 

[Gordon_4]

There is strong logic to televise court cases. In many jurisdictions, the justice system is supposed to be transparent and court cases are actually public events with open access. Given this principle, observers reasonably should not be limited to who can fit into the spectator space of a courtroom when the means exist to expand access. Secondly, being able to see court cases offers a learning opportunity to help the general public understand the court system, which is theoretically beneficial in countries with jury systems because they may help potential jurors better understand their role and what goes on.

Although I think if open, parties involved in a case may of course reasonable ask for limited access with a compelling reason. Although whether "media shitshow" is a good enough reason is open to question.

Transparent to the people involved yes, but I don’t think that should extend to beaming every second into people’s homes where it’s treated as entertainment. And let’s not kid ourselves, that’s all it’s going to be treated as: live and lurid tabloid trash for us to salivate over. Not a somber learning experience.

Besides, it’s difficult enough to get some people to testify in court to their own benefit as it is, I don’t imagine the knowledge that an already difficult testimony is going to end up as fodder for YouTube guttersnipes and memes will suddenly improve that.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Er, no. That's not the point.

I've been avoiding the Depp/Heard trial because frankly, I agree, the way people talk about it and the way it is being represented in popular culture is disgusting and it is entirely correct to point that out.

I don't care if Amber Heard cried weirdly. I don't even particularly care if her testimony wasn't consistent. That doesn't make her guilty of anything. She's not even on trial for domestic abuse, she's being sued for defamation. Johnny Depp already tried to sue her in the UK and lost. He will probably lose this case as well. There are audio recordings of him talking about hitting her, despite the fact he still claims he never did. The facts of this case are all pretty well established and suggest that both sides engaged in a degree of violence, although it's unclear whether there was an overall pattern of coercive control. The only question this trial is answering is whether Heard has the right to say that she was abused.

And honestly, if anything leaps out as a massive red flag here it's that Depp keeps suing Heard despite the likelihood that he will lose, and that he continues to lie about never having been physically violent when recordings exist of him talking about being violent. That raises the question of what he is aiming to get out of it, and the most obvious answer is that he's just doing it to hurt Amber Heard. It just seems like Depp using his wealth and public visibility to punish his ex by forcing her to defend herself in court over and over again, and if anything in this case looks like abuse..

I don't give the tiniest fuck if you like Johnny Depp's public persona and want to watch the Pirates of the Carribean movies without feeling sad. Amber Heard is not a psychopath because she looked weird when she cried. Stop literally recreating the plot of The Stranger and stop spectating people at the worst points in their lives (even if they try and invite you to).

So her on tape confessing to hitting Depp and in her own words "I wasn't punching you I was hitting you". Counts for nothing?

How about some of Heard's exs who have actually reported her being abusive towards them when they were together?

Also to correct the record. Depp didn't sue Heard in the UK, Depp sued The Sun newspaper in the UK. The Sun pulled in Heard as one of their witnesses. In that case it was based on the UK system for defamation which is basically "If a reasonable person given the evidence would believe the same conclusion and in the case of a paper / journalist the evidence and information they can reasonably be expected to have access to".

Heard losing the US case is actually pretty major as under US law defamation cases are harder to win than in the UK. Also based on what's been found / shown in ths case Heard basically is on the line for perjury in the UK case now.

As for the records oh him being violent. You mean the ones Heard recorded, of him throwing things about. While high / drunk?

Also can I remind you Depp was kicked out of two of his main roles as was somewhat unhireable by mainstream Hollywood. That's why he ended up in that indie film that got acclaim and awards because that director believed his claims.

Oh BTW Depp just won the case.

And more from woke world.


Because a guy who all evidence shown in court points to him being the abused one winning is now an issue........

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

More coming in

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

...but neither article says anything like that. And the second article even specifically brings up the allegations of abuse by Amber herself. The articles are simply not doing what you're saying they're doing.

You know what let's play this game and deconstruct some of the elements of the articles shall we?

the alt-right are trying to dismantle the MeToo movement, blaming it on Amber Heard, and gaining support from people who previously disagreed with them.

You know you'd think one of the main people who kicked off #Metoo turning out to be a rapist and the other embracing the right wing more recently would have killed it. Also the whole collapse of #Timesup. Also why would the right want to stop #metoo. It's mostly been left wing people found to be some of the worst offenders like #withher Weinstein

Funny doesn't mention about men being the victim in that piece, yet you said you'd read it? Funny that......

The media has covered the degree to which this trial has served as a referendum on the Me Too movement and a siren call to domestic abusers.

So why isn't Joss Whedon involved in it?

the part of the far-right-leaning extremist “manosphere” that seems to have decided discrediting Amber Heard is the key to destroying every woman who accuses men of abuse or domestic violence.

Oh nice collectivist bullshit when this is about Heard vs Depp. Funny really when we've had quite a lot of media with the "Men bad" narrative but I can only really point to Gone Girl for showing the idea women could be nasty too. I mean aren't critics presently fawning over that film "MEN" or something?

The basic facts of the case have gotten their day in court once already, having been heard in a British court in 2020, with the judge finding in Heard’s favor. But the basic, well-established facts do not seem to matter.

Funny not a hint of this men being able to be the victim thing you claim it said about. Yet it does show a hilariously terrible narrative at work of ignoring the UK trials substance while complaining about people on TiK-Tok ignoring the substance of trails


turning her objectively harrowing trial testimony into a farce of over-the-top fake weeping.

The facts do not seem to matter to any of the people who have gleefully latched on to the image of Heard as a manipulative villain, as if she split her own lip, punched her own face, and pulled out clumps of her own hair.

and listened to what witnesses said that said things only became visible many days after Depp had been away from Heard and not in contact with her at all.......

 

[Buyetyen]

(sigh) What I'm really not looking forward to is Amber Heard's name being invoked literally every time a woman comes forward and claims to have been abused. I mean, yes, it's already happening, but it doesn't make it less repulsive. These were 2 incredibly awful people who never should have been in a relationship, but Johnny winning the court case means that the reprobates are going to crowing that he did nothing wrong whatsoever. In the end, it's just going to be harder for real victims to come forward because the Internet Hate Brigade have taken it upon themselves to be the sole arbiters of what is and is not abuse.

And I guarantee at least one person from said brigade will reply to this post in a way that proves my point. They literally do not have enough self-control to stop themselves from commenting.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

(sigh) What I'm really not looking forward to is Amber Heard's name being invoked literally every time a woman comes forward and claims to have been abused. I mean, yes, it's already happening, but it doesn't make it less repulsive. These were 2 incredibly awful people who never should have been in a relationship, but Johnny winning the court case means that the reprobates are going to crowing that he did nothing wrong whatsoever. In the end, it's just going to be harder for real victims to come forward because the Internet Hate Brigade have taken it upon themselves to be the sole arbiters of what is and is not abuse.

And I guarantee at least one person from said brigade will reply to this post in a way that proves my point. They literally do not have enough self-control to stop themselves from commenting.

Oh you mean like how matress girl and the UVA rape case and that woman who tried to frame a UK MP and the Metoo founder who accused a victim of hers of being the abuser and all those other cases go brought up in this case................. oh wait they weren't brought up. It was only the side trying to defend Amber Turd who chose to try and bring up collectivist ideas while the side supporting Depp stuck to Depp vs Heard.

Also I'd be shocked if there isn't a self righteous sneering reply to what I just wrote from some mob who still can't accept maybe Amber Heard actually isn't some innocent victim who did no wrong ever.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Well boy have I got news for you. Depp won this case for defamation

He won.

Not really the point, but okay.

So her on tape confessing to hitting Depp and in her own words "I wasn't punching you I was hitting you". Counts for nothing?

While she did say some incriminating things on that tape, those words in particular were Depp's.

How about some of Heard's exs who have actually reported her being abusive towards them when they were together?

So what?

She wasn't on trial for abuse, she was being sued for defamation related to claims she made in an article about abuse she suffered from Johnny Depp. I will happily adopt the position of believing that those allegations against her are true, it doesn't mean she cannot have suffered abuse herself (even in the form of reciprocal abuse) or that abuse against her doesn't matter.

If we want to judge everything on the basis of character evidence. Johnny Depp has a history of violent behavior and substance abuse. That doesn't mean he can't have been a victim of intimate partner violence.

You tried to equate pointing out the sustained online abuse and ludicrous level of hatred directed towards Amber Heard (and the way in which this kind of behavior could be and has been weaponized to discredit those who come forward with allegations of abuse) with not believing that men can be victims of domestic violence. I am a male victim of domestic violence. I have no problem believing that Johnny Depp is a victim of domestic violence, despite the evidence that he has also carried out domestic violence and that some of the violence he has suffered may have been reciprocal.

None of it justifies claiming Amber Heard is a psychopath because she didn't cry properly.

Even abusers are human beings. They are very sick human beings who have often been victims of various forms of abuse themselves, which is part of why they have developed these unhealthy relationship patterns. This does not justify their behavior or exempt them from condemnation, but the public over-involvement in this case has very little to do with justice and everything to do with parasociality, fandom and, frankly, misogyny.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Not really the point, but okay.

Point:
In a US court
Under more strict requirements of proof.
Depp actually won the case vs Heard.

While she did say some incriminating things on that tape, those words in particular were Depp's.

Nope they were Heard's

So what?

She wasn't on trial for abuse, she was being sued for defamation related to claims she made in an article about abuse she suffered from Johnny Depp. I will happily adopt the position of believing that those allegations against her are true, it doesn't mean she cannot have suffered abuse herself (even in the form of reciprocal abuse) or that abuse against her doesn't matter.

Which based on the claims and evidence suggests there is no enough evidence for a reasonable person to believe Depp was abused. That's how little actual solid evidence this is all based on. Such that basically the judgement is that any-one who believes Depp likely did abuse Heard is kind of the equivalent of a -Anon crazy person.

If we want to judge everything on the basis of character evidence. Johnny Depp has a history of violent behavior and substance abuse. That doesn't mean he can't have been a victim of intimate partner violence.

Damn nice use of mental health and addiction stigma to try and sway people into an emotional knee jerk. Heard's team tried that too. Didn't work.

You tried to equate pointing out the sustained online abuse and ludicrous level of hatred directed towards Amber Heard (and the way in which this kind of behavior could be and has been weaponized to discredit those who come forward with allegations of abuse) with not believing that men can be victims of domestic violence. I am a male victim of domestic violence. I have no problem believing that Johnny Depp is a victim of domestic violence, despite the evidence that he has also carried out domestic violence and that some of the violence he has suffered may have been reciprocal.

So fearmongering it is then?
What about male victims of domestic violence? Will this verdict not make them feel they will finally be believed and feel more willing to speak up?
Or do they not matter?

None of it justifies claiming Amber Heard is a psychopath because she didn't cry properly.

The fact she went to such effort seemingly Set all this bullshit up. There was the nonsense with trying to suppress the release of the police body camera footage and attempts to frame the police as biases against her because the footage didn't show what she claimed.

Even abusers are human beings, they are very sick human beings who are very often victims of various forms of abuse themselves, which is part of why they have developed these unhealthy relationship patterns. This does not justify their behavior or exempt them from condemnation, but the public over-involvement in this case has very little to do with justice and everything to do with parasociality, fandom and, frankly, misogyny.

You mean like the unhealthy ones Amber Heard has had?

Amber Heard's Alleged Abuse of Ex-Partner Resurfaces Amid Depp Trial

A video showed Heard giving a testimony concerning allegations that she allegedly hit her ex-partner, Tasya van Ree, on the arm.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Buyetyen]

She wasn't on trial for abuse, she was being sued for defamation related to claims she made in an article about abuse she suffered from Johnny Depp. I will happily adopt the position of believing that those allegations against her are true, it doesn't mean she cannot have suffered abuse herself (even in the form of reciprocal abuse) or that abuse against her doesn't matter.

And given the nature of the trial and the way the American legal system works, Johnny was not actually exonerated of domestic abuse. Rather, Amber Heard was found to have padded her case with falsehoods and omissions of important details, and the punishment beyond monetary compensation is that she's not allowed to talk about it anymore. Which for the anti-woke crowd, is just as good as exonerating Johnny because anything that prevents abused people from speaking out makes it that much easier for abusers to get away with it.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Point:
In a US court
Under more strict requirements of proof.
Depp actually won the case vs Heard.

So what?

Nope they were Heard's

I don't care enough to ruin my YouTube recommendations.

Which based on the claims and evidence suggests there is no enough evidence for a reasonable person to believe Depp was abused.

Not the point of the trial.

Damn nice use of mental health and addiction stigma to try and sway people into an emotional knee jerk.

Even if this were not completely missing the point. Do you feel that speculating about whether Amber Heard is a psychopath or a narcissist is helping to combat mental health stigma?

What about male victims of domestic violence?

Am I supposed to believe you care?

Will this verdict not make them feel they will finally be believed and feel more willing to speak up?

No.

Most male victims of domestic violence don't have armies of fans who will instantly believe them because they're famous and people like their public persona.

Very few of the people speculating about this case actually care about male victims of abuse. Most of them just care about Johnny Depp. At best, some them care about punishing women (and only women) who perpetrate abuse because it vindicates their belief that women are inherently evil and untrustworthy. I believe that's the camp you fall into.

But if you want to believe that the massive attention paid to this case has anything to do with justice, or with raising awareness of domestic violence directed at men, I have some NFTs to sell you.

You mean like the unhealthy ones Amber Heard has had?

Yes.

 

[Silvanus]

You know what let's play this game and deconstruct some of the elements of the articles shall we?



You know you'd think one of the main people who kicked off #Metoo turning out to be a rapist and the other embracing the right wing more recently would have killed it.

So blah blah blah, either distracting irrelevant shit or stuff you've made up wholesale. Still none of the articles you quoted actually said what you claimed. You still lied.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

So blah blah blah, either distracting irrelevant shit or stuff you've made up wholesale. Still none of the articles you quoted actually said what you claimed. You still lied.

Oddly they did. You're just arguing semantics because they didn't use the specific words. Yet hey definitely didn't use the specific words to support your claim about what they said lol

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

And given the nature of the trial and the way the American legal system works, Johnny was not actually exonerated of domestic abuse. Rather, Amber Heard was found to have padded her case with falsehoods and omissions of important details, and the punishment beyond monetary compensation is that she's not allowed to talk about it anymore. Which for the anti-woke crowd, is just as good as exonerating Johnny because anything that prevents abused people from speaking out makes it that much easier for abusers to get away with it.

Also you know basically every legal system as you can't fight to be proven innocent in court of something you were ever accused of in court or found guilty of by a court. In Heard had made the claim against him in a court and tried to have him charged with domestic abuse then he could have fought against it. Issue is even then he'd be found not guilty which today many take as also "Not innocent" so to be fully deemed innocent it would take a far longer fight that almost no-one ever wins anyway which is why we consider non convicted to be them being innocent unless it was on a technicality the conviction didn't go through.

The verdict says the following in essence:
1) the claims Heard made did materially damage Johnny Depp
2) the claims Heard made based on the evidence available can't reasonably be believed to be by a person deemed to be of sound mind.

Is Depp Exonerated? Well a court has determined that a reasonable person of sound mind presented with the evidence on both sides would determine Heard to have lied and thus defamed Johnny Depp. I mean we're not in a world where there seem to be that many people of sound mind but I don't know many people who would happily admit it. Outside of Q-Anon types anyway lol