Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

Thaluikhain

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Because I think they are doing it to drum up attention for their own manipulative self-interests (IE. Staying in power). Think about the outrage this generated, now they can use it as a rallying point to campaign off of and build support for the next term.
Um, yes, the SCOTUS doing something awful has generated outrage that Biden would be a clueless monkey not to use. The SCOTUS, however, does not work for Biden, he can be blamed for a lot of things, but not for them overturning Roe vs Wade.

And truthfully, the RvW decision didn't have to change anything because all it allowed to happen was the freedom for states to decide whether it's illegal or not. There are states that made no changes and abortion rights are fine, and other states (namely religious ones which is not supposed to be a consideration) banned it immediately
Well, yes, and given that we knew that various states would immediately ban abortions, saying that it didn't have to change anything is meaningless. It was done exactly for the purpose of causing the changes we have seen that everyone knew would happen.
 
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Agema

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Cite me one person or news source that presents things neutrally.
I'm sorry, but the bias of other sources is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether you should trust a particular biased source.
 

CriticalGaming

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And before that Obama won twice.
Didn't Obama have even the Republican support by the end.

IIRC Hilary lost because not enough people in her registered party showed up to the poles.

That leftist voters should've voted harder so that Biden had more... voter strength... in order to make changes?
No I think more people should be paying attention to the specific laws, bills, budgets, and acts on the bills. If you ask someone what they voted on Act 13, or Prop 49, they likely wont be able to tell you because all people remember is the popularity contest of the major election. But laws and regulations are on there all the time so make sure to look into that shit.

I think too many people only pay attention to the big presidental election, while ignoring state and mid term poles because it's not covered by the media as much. I don't know really.
 
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CriticalGaming

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It was done exactly for the purpose of causing the changes we have seen that everyone knew would happen.
Again I don't think that was the intent. RvW is known for being poorly ruled. By overturning it they can rework it into something more legislatable. So that might be the intent there. Yes the short term result is going to be states issuing blocks. But that doesn't mean they intented that, to be the case only that is the result in the short term until new more defined legislation can be enacted.

I could be wrong, maybe the government wants all women to die and the human race to go extinct. It's possible.
 

Thaluikhain

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Again I don't think that was the intent. RvW is known for being poorly ruled. By overturning it they can rework it into something more legislatable. So that might be the intent there. Yes the short term result is going to be states issuing blocks. But that doesn't mean they intented that, to be the case only that is the result in the short term until new more defined legislation can be enacted.

I could be wrong, maybe the government wants all women to die and the human race to go extinct. It's possible.
...

Given that getting abortions banned has long been a stated and worked towards goal of the conservatives, who now dominate the SCOTUS and made it possible for states to ban abortions, it's sorta really fucking obvious that SCOTUS didn't just do this so they can enshrine abortion rights properly.

Because, fucking obviously.
 

Casual Shinji

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I could be wrong, maybe the government wants all women to die and the human race to go extinct. It's possible.
They don't want that, they just don't care. Eventhough abortion bans will not practically benefit anyone at all, not even the most hardened pro-lifer, they still feel that their principles being law of the land is more important than the physical and mental health of most americans and families, child care, and the economy. They wanna feel good about their outdated views even if it burns the world down.
 

CriticalGaming

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They don't want that, they just don't care. Eventhough abortion bans will not practically benefit anyone at all, not even the most hardened pro-lifer, they still feel that their principles being law of the land is more important than the physical and mental health of most americans and families, child care, and the economy. They wanna feel good about their outdated views even if it burns the world down.
Outdated religious views, because religion ruins everything it touches. So much for separation of church and state right?
 

Thaluikhain

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They don't want that, they just don't care. Eventhough abortion bans will not practically benefit anyone at all, not even the most hardened pro-lifer, they still feel that their principles being law of the land is more important than the physical and mental health of most americans and families, child care, and the economy. They wanna feel good about their outdated views even if it burns the world down.
And/or they know they can use it to get support and be in charge of the pile of ashes that used to be a country.
 

Casual Shinji

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And/or they know they can use it to get support and be in charge of the pile of ashes that used to be a country.
Well I mean, I'm sure POWER is always going to be the end goal for most of the republicans, but really, how does an abortion ban work to achieving that goal? It's going to hit red states the hardest. Again, this is literally going to benefit nobody, apart from zealots that wanna feel good about themselves (and dipshits that feel they now owned the libs I guess).

With them banning gay people and literature there's atleast the "logic" of wanting to suppress a mentality and identity they don't agree with, so that their own can remain dominant. It's fucked up and evil, but it's something that benefits their side and weakens (others) the other. But abortion bans, in the short term, weakens their own states.
 

Schadrach

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Which means the regulatory body cannot actually make regulations, yes.

Like, the EPA has its problems, but at the very least bribing EPA officials is actually illegal, unlike congress
No, it means that Congress establishes the bounds of what domain the regulatory agency is being delegated authority over, and they can make regulations within that range. Going beyond that range, or making regulations that Congress has specifically shot down is out of bounds. In the case of the SCOTUS case in question, due to an admittedly poorly worded bill the EPA did not have that authority in that case. Pass a bill giving them authority over that and they would. This is way different than saying the EPA "cannot actually make regulations" in a broad sense.

So, for example, the FCC licenses bandwidth for over the air transmissions because that's what Congress delegated to them the authority to do, and they have a swath of authority regarding broadcasting laid out in law. But they have no authority to, say, regulate record companies, despite radio stations often playing songs produced by that industry because that's not part of the authority that has been granted to them.

For another dumb example, the Department of Health and Human Services Office of Civil Rights cannot cancel student loan debt, even though they have authority over policy for implementing and enforcing Title IX. Both are education related, and women hold a majority of student loan debt so it's not sex-neutral, but student loans are simply not in the span of authority delegated to them.

Either you have the right to your own body or you don't.
...in a country where half the population has to sign a document saying they are effectively government property to be used and disposed of at it's will (even if making use of that is extremely unpopular and not currently needed and so is unlikely to actually be invoked for the foreseeable future), that same half of the population is routinely subjected to medically unnecessary genital surgery in infancy, and there's one kind of debt where you have to pay another person (remember: for most people funds to pay things are gained by doing labor with their bodies) and if you fail to keep up with payments you can be jailed (about 1 in 7 who fail to keep up with such a debt end up being jailed at least once, as as the debt continues to accrue while in jail, you can't work while in jail, and employers tend not to prefer people who have been incarcerated if they have a choice being jailed for being behind only makes you farther behind and more likely to be jailed again) .

So, the answer is "you don't, and really never have", but since 2 out of 3 of the things above never apply to people who might need abortions (and the third only a minority of the time) many of them have that illusion.
 

Schadrach

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And truthfully, the RvW decision didn't have to change anything because all it allowed to happen was the freedom for states to decide whether it's illegal or not.
Amusingly, it puts abortion under the same kind of legislative structure as in the EU - a matter for individual member states to decide.

because they are motivated by church despite there being no mention of abortion in the bible.
Does the Trial of Bitter Waters count?

But abortion bans, in the short term, weakens their own states.
Especially since it's a state level decision now, and those other states simply don't have to pass an abortion ban and they won't have one.
 

tstorm823

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How exactly do you interpret removing millions of women's right to abortion as not being an attack on women's rights?
Killing people is not a right. Done.
The other alternative is that tribal law applies while you are on the reservation, regardless of whether or not you are an outsider, like how city ordinances and state laws apply to you while in their jurisdictions regardless of if you are an outsider.
Even if we imagine it feasible to go "this was a question between state and federal jurisdiction, but we're going to rule that those laws don't apply in the first place", I want you to appreciate what you are suggesting: neither US nor state laws would apply to anyone in the entire eastern half of Oklahoma, including most of the city of Tulsa.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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...in a country where half the population has to sign a document saying they are effectively government property to be used and disposed of at it's will (even if making use of that is extremely unpopular and not currently needed and so is unlikely to actually be invoked for the foreseeable future),
An unused atrefact mainly kept around by the people who believe you don't have bodily autonomy, yes
that same half of the population is routinely subjected to medically unnecessary genital surgery in infancy,
Not legislatively enforced, but largely supported by the people above
and there's one kind of debt where you have to pay another person (remember: for most people funds to pay things are gained by doing labor with their bodies) and if you fail to keep up with payments you can be jailed (about 1 in 7 who fail to keep up with such a debt end up being jailed at least once, as as the debt continues to accrue while in jail, you can't work while in jail, and employers tend not to prefer people who have been incarcerated if they have a choice being jailed for being behind only makes you farther behind and more likely to be jailed again) .
Kept around because actually having robust social services is poison to the group saying you don't have bodily autonomy, yes
So, the answer is "you don't, and really never have", but since 2 out of 3 of the things above never apply to people who might need abortions (and the third only a minority of the time) many of them have that illusion.
Super cool how this turned into an MRA post. So, should you have bodily autonomy or not? Or do you just want to whine some more?
 

Silvanus

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An attack has to have intent imo. Otherwise it's an accident. If you hit someone with your car, it's an accident unless you did it on purpose.
No, an accident is when the action has an unintended, unforeseen consequence.

The removal of access to abortion is a direct, known, and inevitable result of their action.

So if that impact is not their motivation, then it is at the very least considered an acceptable cost.
 

Schadrach

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I want you to appreciate what you are suggesting: neither US nor state laws would apply to anyone in the entire eastern half of Oklahoma, including most of the city of Tulsa.
Federal law normally applies on reservations, state law normally does not. The whole point of the case was whether or not someone doing a state crime on the reservation who is not part of the reservation falls under state law, and I'd argue they belong under tribal law instead - if you are on the reservation the law on the reservation applies regardless of who you are and reservations are not normally subject to state law (this is literally why Indian casinos are a thing at all) but are subject to federal law.

That half of Tulsa is on a reservation is irrelevant, except that half of Tulsa would be subject to federal, OK, and Tulsa law and the other half would be subject to federal, tribal, and Tulsa law. This is no different than a city straddling a state line, the parts on each side of the line are subject to that state's laws. Half the city of Texhoma is under Texas law, the other half under Oklahoma law (it sitting on the border is literally why it's called that) - and no one argues that someone from the Texas side walking into the OK side and doing a crime should be subject to Texas law because they aren't from OK.

So, should you have bodily autonomy or not?
Should you? Yes. Do you? No, and overturning Roe didn't change that, just expanded who that fact was blatantly clear to.
 

Silvanus

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Indeed. The manipulations of power have acceptable collateral damage. Those in power have always been okay with this as it does not affect them.
OK, but collateral damage is what happens when there's an attack. That's the origin of the term.

Should you? Yes. Do you? No, and overturning Roe didn't change that, just expanded who that fact was blatantly clear to.
It also changed the severity of it, and who it applies to most severely.