Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

[Seanchaidh]

It would only be desirable at a time when it is impossible for a woman to get pregnant accidentally or forcibly

I.e. the woman controls exactly when she gets pregnant so any fetus deaths would be intentional

Until such time, tstorm is living in dream land. This suggestion might be as well: To get to tstorm's Utopia, vasectomy should be mandatory from birth until such time that sperm is needed for insemination

Seems only fair

Wouldn't even be desirable then. Unwanted children are precisely that: unwanted. And in a world so technologically advanced that you can attempt to justify outlawing abortion by the ease of alternatives, there is no compelling reason to keep proto-unwanted children in the hope that they might become wanted; that very same technological edge means there also won't be a need for some gruesome 'domestic supply of babies'-- whoever wants a baby would be able to simply have one without needing to enslave unwilling mothers. Abortion is not a bad thing and there will never be a time that making it illegal will be morally justified. "I do not wish to make a person" is enough: to forcibly violate this wish is to treat a person as livestock.

 

[tstorm823]

It would only be desirable at a time when it is impossible for a woman to get pregnant accidentally or forcibly

I.e. the woman controls exactly when she gets pregnant so any fetus deaths would be intentional

Until such time, tstorm is living in dream land. This suggestion might be as well: To get to tstorm's Utopia, vasectomy should be mandatory from birth until such time that sperm is needed for insemination

Seems only fair

"We can't possibly have laws if there's a chance they might inconvenience someone." - Trunkage

 

[tstorm823]

Abortion is not a bad thing and there will never be a time that making it illegal will be morally justified. "I do not wish to make a person" is enough: to forcibly violate this wish is to treat a person as livestock.

Abortion is a bad thing because you already made the person at that point. It doesn't matter if you wanted to, the deed is done.

You want to know what being treated as livestock is like? Culling the undesirables, that's what treating people as livestock is like.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Abortion is a bad thing because you already made the person at that point. It doesn't matter if you wanted to, the deed is done.

No. The word 'person' was chosen carefully.

 

[tstorm823]

No. The word 'person' was chosen carefully.

I'm sure it was. It's still wrong, but good job drawing lines where some human beings aren't "persons" to you. I'm your conscience is totally fooled.

 

[Dalisclock]

..So, what? If a Mississippi woman is pregnant, she's not allowed to fly out of the state? I'm sure that would go over well for anyone who has family out of state...

This sounds like a good reason for people to leave Mississippi....for good.

 

[Burnhardt]

Abortion is a bad thing because you already made the person at that point. It doesn't matter if you wanted to, the deed is done.

And what about rape?

Sorry deed is done. You almost certainly did not want to make a person, but there is one now. Hope your insurance will cover all your prenatal requirements, because although we will go to any length to prevent you having an abortion, we sure as fuck won't help you bring it to term for it to be adopted.

 

[Trunkage]

"We can't possibly have laws if there's a chance they might inconvenience someone." - Trunkage

You keep calling an inconvenience

I don't think it means what you think it means

The last thing I would call child birth or raising children is inconvenient

 

[tstorm823]

And what about rape?

Sorry deed is done. You almost certainly did not want to make a person, but there is one now. Hope your insurance will cover all your prenatal requirements, because although we will go to any length to prevent you having an abortion, we sure as fuck won't help you bring it to term for it to be adopted.

The case of rape is a tragedy, it is a circumstance with no good outcome. There are arguments for the legality of abortion in the case of rape, though much less so for the morality of it.

And your aggressive rambling is super misplaced, as those most against abortion run charities specifically to help people with things like prenatal requirements, which are currently having arson attacks against them.

The last thing I would call child birth or raising children is inconvenient

Sounds like you've done neither.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Sounds like you've done neither.

And how many children have you given birth to?

 

[Trunkage]

Wouldn't even be desirable then. Unwanted children are precisely that: unwanted. And in a world so technologically advanced that you can attempt to justify outlawing abortion by the ease of alternatives, there is no compelling reason to keep proto-unwanted children in the hope that they might become wanted; that very same technological edge means there also won't be a need for some gruesome 'domestic supply of babies'-- whoever wants a baby would be able to simply have one without needing to enslave unwilling mothers. Abortion is not a bad thing and there will never be a time that making it illegal will be morally justified. "I do not wish to make a person" is enough: to forcibly violate this wish is to treat a person as livestock.

The dream world I was talking about was one where there is no possibility of unwanted pregnancy

Hence me calling it a dream world

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Sounds like you've done neither.

And how many unwanted children have you adopted?

 

[Trunkage]

Sounds like you've done neither.

I got two kids. One is almost 10.

Unless you have kids, no one can warn you enough about what kids will do to your life

Kids aren't inconveniences. They are transformational, life changing, never ending. You can love your kids with all yout heart but having a night off from them is one of life's greatest pleasures. Having children means you are trapped in a paternal prison. I only want those that do this to WANT to do this

Lastly, because it might come up... I'm pro-Roe v Wade for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, not for me

 

[Eacaraxe]

You want to know what being treated as livestock is like? Culling the undesirables, that's what treating people as livestock is like.

Silly conservative, that's what police, border patrol, and ICE are for!

What, you thought amidst all this inconvenient talk about such inchoate topics we've forgotten about the shit going on with immigrant detainees? Well, I mean some of us forgot at 12:00pm on January 20, 2021, but I haven't.

 

[tstorm823]

Silly conservative, that's what police, border patrol, and ICE are for!

What, you thought amidst all this inconvenient talk about such inchoate topics we've forgotten about the shit going on with immigrant detainees? Well, I mean some of us forgot at 12:00pm on January 20, 2021, but I haven't.

Are you high at the moment?

 

[tstorm823]

And how many children have you given birth to?

Zero.

I got two kids. One is almost 10.

Unless you have kids, no one can warn you enough about what kids will do to your life

Kids aren't inconveniences. They are transformational, life changing, never ending. You can love your kids with all yout heart but having a night off from them is one of life's greatest pleasures. Having children means you are trapped in a paternal prison. I only want those that do this to WANT to do this

Lastly, because it might come up... I'm pro-Roe v Wade for my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, not for me

You are quite the walking contradiction. Prison isn't inconvenient? Also, it's a transformational, life changing experience that only those who want to should enter? You are aware that probably most of everyone ever born came about unplanned, and those parents got the same life changing experience, right?

And don't call yourself pro-Roe v Wade. The framework of Roe is just stupid, nobody with any opinion on "abortion rights" should be lining themselves up with that nonsense.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I'm sure it was. It's still wrong, but good job drawing lines where some human beings aren't "persons" to you. I'm your conscience is totally fooled.

You're the one claiming that you need to violate the autonomy of people who are unquestionably persons. Well, maybe it is questionable to a conservative.

 

[Trunkage]

Zero.

You are quite the walking contradiction. Prison isn't inconvenient? Also, it's a transformational, life changing experience that only those who want to should enter? You are aware that probably most of everyone ever born came about unplanned, and those parents got the same life changing experience, right?

And don't call yourself pro-Roe v Wade. The framework of Roe is just stupid, nobody with any opinion on "abortion rights" should be lining themselves up with that nonsense.

No one should be invading your privacy, especially medical

Roe v Wade is a justification for breaking the rules set out in the Constitution. It pretends that fetus is more important than someone medical privacy. Roe should never have happened because it should never be banned

So, in a way, you are right. But probably for not the reason you think.

 

[Lykosia]

Fact that especially Christians are against abortion just shows how little they understand the Bible. Bible is clearly pro-abortion. In only verses that it even mentions something like abortion it even encourages it:

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

Abortions did happen back in the day of the Bible and the fact that Bible doesn't condemn abortions should be quite telling.

 

[Casual Shinji]

'To all the (raped) women who will die in child birth for a child they never even wanted; just stick it out until we've invented artificial wombs which I'm sure will be any day now. And to all the children born to unfit or dead mothers; just stick it out in our child care system which we garantee we will get in proper working order any day now.'

Fact that especially Christians are against abortion just shows how little they understand the Bible. Bible is clearly pro-abortion. In only verses that it even mentions something like abortion it even encourages it:



Abortions did happen back in the day of the Bible and the fact that Bible doesn't condemn abortions should be quite telling.

The rapture was also never mentioned in the bible, but by God American Christians swear by it.