Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports

[Agema]

I'm pretty sure that woman refers to either sex or gender depending on explicit definition or implicit context.

And then we would also need to consider what sex actually represents anyway. As far as I understand it, society determines sex by visible genitourinary plumbing when a baby is in or removed from the womb. By that criteria, numerous transwomen qualify as female sex anyway.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm using the term as defined. Women is based on sex not gender.

^ doesn't refer to sex or gender. That's a paraphrasing of an Oxford dictionary usage, and that's all.

It's not difficult to find countless definitions (from more authoritative sources, like medical/ psychological bodies or gov. guidelines) that link terms like 'man' and 'woman' to gender.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So now that we've eliminated the profit motive, how's that "there's zero dominant trans women in women's sports" thing?


No, because demographic surveys don't work like that. Same way as you can't claim somebody is smart just because their general peer group is smart. Matter of fact, your insistence that trans women who're shorter than their opponents have a height advantage regardless is exactly the thing. Men generally being taller than women doesn't give Mugsy Bogues a height advantage, but that's the sort of logic you want to use

There's not many trans women playing sports, just because they aren't dominating doesn't mean they have advantage. It's like playing an online video game and you think you're really good at a game, then you play one of the top clans and get dominated. If none of the trans women that have played yet aren't a top level athlete (which chances are high at this point) then they won't be dominating women.

"We have scientific proof!" Posts a screenshot of a definition of woman that doesn't differentiate between sex and gender, purely because he objects to the adjective cis

We get it, you aren't straight cis, you're normal and how dare They make you change

I'm just using words as defined. You said "You're thinking of Femaie" and female is literally part of the definition. You were wrong, just admit it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

There's not many trans women playing sports, just because they aren't dominating doesn't mean they have advantage. It's like playing an online video game and you think you're really good at a game, then you play one of the top clans and get dominated. If none of the trans women that have played yet aren't a top level athlete (which chances are high at this point) then they won't be dominating women.

So we shouldn't worry about it until you can prove a real world advantage instead of just using white-room math. Like, if there just aren't enough trans women playing sports to end up with any dominating women's sport, then why the fuck do we actually give a shit? Enforcement is just gonna cause more problems than it solves, all to be shitty to a tiny group of people, especially considering that white-room math is currently being used to ban "undesirable" cis women from competition.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So we shouldn't worry about it until you can prove a real world advantage instead of just using white-room math. Like, if there just aren't enough trans women playing sports to end up with any dominating women's sport, then why the fuck do we actually give a shit? Enforcement is just gonna cause more problems than it solves, all to be shitty to a tiny group of people, especially considering that white-room math is currently being used to ban "undesirable" cis women from competition.

Already been proven.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Already been proven.

Not as conclusively as you pretend and in precisely zero real world scenarios.
So anyway:

So we shouldn't worry about it until you can prove a real world advantage instead of just using white-room math. Like, if there just aren't enough trans women playing sports to end up with any dominating women's sport, then why the fuck do we actually give a shit? Enforcement is just gonna cause more problems than it solves, all to be shitty to a tiny group of people, especially considering that white-room math is currently being used to ban "undesirable" cis women from competition.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Not as conclusively as you pretend and in precisely zero real world scenarios.
So anyway:

I didn't know strength tests can be done outside the real world.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

all to be shitty to a tiny group of people

For some people, this is all that gets them out of bed in the morning.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I didn't know strength tests can be done outside the real world.

In your world it's always the strongest benchpress that wins, huh

Too put it another way: I don't care if a car might technically be made of better parts if they aren't out there winning races on a regular basis

 

[Agema]

For some people, this is all that gets them out of bed in the morning.

To an extent I feel genuinely quite sorry for people who spend their lives afraid and upset by other people being different. What a lot of fear and ill-feelings they must give themselves, and for such little purpose or benefit.

 

[Casual Shinji]

To an extent I feel genuinely quite sorry for people who spend their lives afraid and upset by other people being different. What a lot of fear and ill-feelings they must give themselves, and for such little purpose or benefit.

Yeah well, don't feel sorry - They have plenty of oppertunity to amend their ways whenever that little thing called 'empathy' rears its head.

 

[Silvanus]

Im just using words as defined. You said "You're thinking of Femaie" and female is literally part of the definition. You were wrong, just admit it.

That's your line? "Women" is also part of the term "trans women".

 

[Phoenixmgs]

In your world it's always the strongest benchpress that wins, huh

Too put it another way: I don't care if a car might technically be made of better parts if they aren't out there winning races on a regular basis

It helps quite a bit, you might call it an advantage even.

To an extent I feel genuinely quite sorry for people who spend their lives afraid and upset by other people being different. What a lot of fear and ill-feelings they must give themselves, and for such little purpose or benefit.

There's more fear from the left- over the right than the other way around.

That's your line? "Women" is also part of the term "trans women".

One is about sex, the other is about gender. Identifies as a woman does not mean they are a woman.

 

[Silvanus]

One is about sex, the other is about gender. Identifies as a woman does not mean they are a woman.

Your screenshot definition there literally calls them women.

Look, you're the one who chose to take a simple dictionary definition, and then say that because a specific word was in it ("female") then that's the end of the issue. That's the approach you chose to take. You cannot use that line and then ignore the same logic when it's pointed out that the same source uses another word ("woman") which directly counters what you're saying.

Either stick by your "the word is there = final" approach, or jettison it completely. You cannot just employ it when it's convenient.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It helps quite a bit, you might call it an advantage even.

Of course. Problem with that logic is that it...isn't

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Your screenshot definition there literally calls them women.

Look, you're the one who chose to take a simple dictionary definition, and then say that because a specific word was in it ("female") then that's the end of the issue. That's the approach you chose to take. You cannot use that line and then ignore the same logic when it's pointed out that the same source uses another word ("woman") which directly counters what you're saying.

Either stick by your "the word is there = final" approach, or jettison it completely. You cannot just employ it when it's convenient.

You obviously can't read then. One definition is about sex and why female is in the definition. The other definition is about gender and says AS (not IS) a woman.

Of course. Problem with that logic is that it...isn't

It is because science says it is.

 

[Silvanus]

You obviously can't read then. One definition is about sex and why female is in the definition.

It literally isn't. There's no 'why' there at all (obviously, since it's a Google paraphrase of a dictionary entry).

You say it's "about sex" and... it literally doesn't use the word sex.

The other definition is about gender and says AS (not IS) a woman.

...do you actually not understand how dictionary entries are structured? Alternative senses are delineated by semi-colons. The second sense there is "a transgender woman". No "as". The word "woman" is used as part of the definition.

It is because science says it is.

You wouldn't know science if it slapped you in the face with a wet Oncorhynchus nerka.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It is because science says it is.

If that were true, trans women would be winning way more often than they are by larger margins. And they aren't, regardless what you claim the science says

 

[Phoenixmgs]

It literally isn't. There's no 'why' there at all (obviously, since it's a Google paraphrase of a dictionary entry).

You say it's "about sex" and... it literally doesn't use the word sex.



...do you actually not understand how dictionary entries are structured? Alternative senses are delineated by semi-colons. The second sense there is "a transgender woman". No "as". The word "woman" is used as part of the definition.



You wouldn't know science if it slapped you in the face with a wet Oncorhynchus nerka.

OMFG, it's not a paraphrase of a dictionary entry, it's the fucking dictionary entry. Female refers to sex.

And the definition of transgender is gender based... And thus is basically the same exact thing as the original definition.


It's obvious you only interpret science as it corresponds to your beliefs.

If that were true, trans women would be winning way more often than they are by larger margins. And they aren't, regardless what you claim the science says

That's not how it works. And, it's not what I claim the science says, it's literally what the science says it is. That is the literal conclusions from the studies.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's not how it works. And, it's not what I claim the science says, it's literally what the science says it is. That is the literal conclusions from the studies.

I do not care if the car might be made of better parts if the car is not winning a disproportionate amount of races.