Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports

Silvanus

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Neither do you. Was the scientist from the video not good enough to interpret the studies either?
Certainly no better than the thousands of others in their field, who do not have YouTube videos.
 

Trunkage

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No, the literal studies that showed transwomen don't lose much of their ability prove it. Man, you all just ignore the facts you don't like. You have no actual studies saying it's fair competition.
Yes, I understand you've misread what the literal studies said. You've made taht quite clear

Remember the good old days when people were pretending that men were pretending to be transwomen to steal gold off women. Instead of now, when people are just attacking transpeople
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Back on the Florida guidances that don't actually do anything and are nothing to be concerned about, Florida is using that to recommend a "there are actually zero trans people" policy and recommending conversion therapy for all.

Plus, banning "tucking" in schools, which means you'd have to do the whole genital inspection thing on kids, with totally isn't creepy as shit

 

thebobmaster

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Not only that, but recommending schools ban all binding. Because as we all know, breasts respond greatly to being left loose when, say, doing physical activities.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Not only that, but recommending schools ban all binding. Because as we all know, breasts respond greatly to being left loose when, say, doing physical activities.
I'm sure somebody will come by and say "but surely they don't mean sports bras", which A) would still require an "inspection" of a child's body to determine the difference and B) this is Florida, a state which accidentally banned Internet cafes once.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Buddy, there aren't enough trans people in high level competition for there to be anything *besides* single isolated incidents. In a particulerly crowded field, there *might* be two
The studies have more than 1 person in them....


Certainly no better than the thousands of others in their field, who do not have YouTube videos.
Did she say anything wrong in the video concerning the studies?

Yes, I understand you've misread what the literal studies said. You've made taht quite clear

Remember the good old days when people were pretending that men were pretending to be transwomen to steal gold off women. Instead of now, when people are just attacking transpeople
You mean the very video you also were going to post, the lady misread the studies? Then, why were you going to post it?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The studies have more than 1 person in them
And they're general studies that don't involve elite athletes. Because what's good to keep in weightlighting isn't relevant to swimming, which isn't relevant to rugby, which isn't relevant to track, which isn't relevant to skateboarding, which isn't relevant to high school sports in general, etc, etc, etc.

Lia Thomas was about as good in the women's bracket after 4 years of development and 3.5 years of hormones as she was back in her freshman days. That's about as fair as this kind of science can be short of Divine Intervention. And it *shouldn't* matter, because Lia Thomas is 9 seconds behind Katie Ledecky, which means her competition is 10 seconds behind Katie Ledecky, and the lot of them have decided to whine about not being second best. I *hate* that mentality, and all the rules resulting from it now have several cis black women banned from women's sports in the Olympics, and that should be *enraging*
 
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Phoenixmgs

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And they're general studies that don't involve elite athletes. Because what's good to keep in weightlighting isn't relevant to swimming, which isn't relevant to rugby, which isn't relevant to track, which isn't relevant to skateboarding, which isn't relevant to high school sports in general, etc, etc, etc.

Lia Thomas was about as good in the women's bracket after 4 years of development and 3.5 years of hormones as she was back in her freshman days. That's about as fair as this kind of science can be short of Divine Intervention. And it *shouldn't* matter, because Lia Thomas is 9 seconds behind Katie Ledecky, which means her competition is 10 seconds behind Katie Ledecky, and the lot of them have decided to whine about not being second best. I *hate* that mentality, and all the rules resulting from it now have several cis black women banned from women's sports in the Olympics, and that should be *enraging*
And heart and lung size affect just about all sports. Height affects most sports if not all. Pelvic anatomy affects most sports. That's stuff you can't reverse. The science says it's not fair. Why do you have such a hard time actually following science?

No. You deliberately misheard

You gone out of your way to ignore what she stated
I didn't ignore anything, I just don't agree with the opinion that sports is already unfair so adding more unfair things is "fair". The studies said it's not fair, that is what they fucking said. Why can't ya'll just accept what the studies said?

Ain't watched it, because I don't form my opinions by watching YouTube videos, and neither should you.
Then why talk about something you have no knowledge of?
 

Silvanus

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Then why talk about something you have no knowledge of?
I'm talking about the actual topic of the thread, of which I have enough knowledge to comment. All I don't have knowledge of is an entirely irrelevant YouTube video.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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And heart and lung size affect just about all sports. Height affects most sports if not all. Pelvic anatomy affects most sports. That's stuff you can't reverse. The science says it's not fair. Why do you have such a hard time actually following science?
Because hearts and lungs can be trained, height's value is relative to the sport and proportions matter, pelvic anatomy is relative to the sport and is generally undefined by the science involved, pelvic angles (and other sets of ligaments) *do* in fact realign due to hormone use (trans women tend to drop a shoe size or two due to their arches being pulled up), Mugsy Bogues was one of the greatest athletes in the NBA despite being 5'3", and the person that those swimmers *should be* trying to beat is Katie Ledecky instead of whining about Lia Thomas, who has set no records of note that she also didn't set before HRT

And zero of that has to do with high school, let the kids play
 

Phoenixmgs

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I'm talking about the actual topic of the thread, of which I have enough knowledge to comment. All I don't have knowledge of is an entirely irrelevant YouTube video.
The studies not the Youtube video...

Because hearts and lungs can be trained, height's value is relative to the sport and proportions matter, pelvic anatomy is relative to the sport and is generally undefined by the science involved, pelvic angles (and other sets of ligaments) *do* in fact realign due to hormone use (trans women tend to drop a shoe size or two due to their arches being pulled up), Mugsy Bogues was one of the greatest athletes in the NBA despite being 5'3", and the person that those swimmers *should be* trying to beat is Katie Ledecky instead of whining about Lia Thomas, who has set no records of note that she also didn't set before HRT

And zero of that has to do with high school, let the kids play
Having bigger hearts/lungs is an advantage. I really don't know how you argue that at all. So growing up in a well-off family isn't an advantage because the other people can just train themselves to get out of that situation? Most sports involve running which pelvic anatomy effects. And someplace it snowed early/late in the season meaning global warming isn't a thing. That's literally your argument. The kids can play...
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Having bigger hearts/lungs is an advantage. I really don't know how you argue that at all. So growing up in a well-off family isn't an advantage because the other people can just train themselves to get out of that situation?
Happens all the time actually. You don't know that many sports stories, huh
Most sports involve running which pelvic anatomy effects.
And HRT adjusts your ligaments making that much less of an issue, as already explained
The kids can play...
In the same way a gay man could always get married to a woman, yeah.

Well, until the rules get passed down the line and cis girls with biological quirks can't play with other cis girls any more. That seems to be the rage these days, banning cis women for biological advantages against other cis women
 

Phoenixmgs

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Happens all the time actually. You don't know that many sports stories, huh
And HRT adjusts your ligaments making that much less of an issue, as already explained
In the same way a gay man could always get married to a woman, yeah.

Well, until the rules get passed down the line and cis girls with biological quirks can't play with other cis girls any more. That seems to be the rage these days, banning cis women for biological advantages against other cis women
If 2 people with the same ability train the same amount, the one with advantage will win most of the time. Just like the rich get richer most of the time.

I doubt you have any data for that. Also, less of an issue =/= non-issue.

It's not the same at all. Don't know why you keep using bullshit logic.
 

Piscian

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I feel like they should at least do public service announcements explaining the economic cost of propositioning an extremist point of view on an given topic. Like "hey I know you really give a shit about trans people playing on highschool baseball teams, but this is the estimated amount of your tax dollars that will be inevitably spent on fighting this through the court system until everyone fatigues on the issue. Here's a picture of a new lane of highway we could build instead."
 
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Trunkage

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I didn't ignore anything, I just don't agree with the opinion that sports is already unfair so adding more unfair things is "fair". The studies said it's not fair, that is what they fucking said. Why can't ya'll just accept what the studies said?
This is what Sabine stated:
One study found that 2 years after transitioning, the transwomen might have increased performance
ALSO, after 15 years there is NO increased performance

You ignored a whole second statement. In fact, you rewrote it to fit your own narrative

I know this is going to be completely useless pointing this out, but I'll try anyway. It's the 5th time I've done it and you still haven't understood the problem
 

TheMysteriousGX

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If 2 people with the same ability train the same amount, the one with advantage will win most of the time. Just like the rich get richer most of the time.
It's sports, there are zero people with the same ability, and yet rags to riches stories are a regular in a *lot* of sports
I doubt you have any data for that. Also, less of an issue =/= non-issue.
Almost nobody has any wide scale, definitive, or conclusive data about anything, this is a fairly new field, your protestations towards "science" notwithstanding

Ligaments: https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

Bones: https://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-...gender-nonconforming-individuals/mac-20477707
It's not the same at all. Don't know why you keep using bullshit logic.
It's the same logic, it's just the consequences you take issue with. You'd think an adherent of deontology would recognize that.

Trans girls should play with cis girls, trans boys should play with cis boys, lest y'all keep getting mad at Mack Beggs every 6 months
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The guy Florida picked to overhaul their trans health guidelines everybody: