Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

[Dreiko]

Not everyone does. Why do you think they do?

Sure they do, this is not Palestine, you won't be met with David's finest at the border if you try to cross states lol.


I think your point is more that some people are less equipped to take advantage of that option than others, which of course is true, but nobody said it wasn't the case that for some people moving is more convenient and less hassle-involved. Someone who has 5 houses can live in one of the other 4 when they move main residences, and another person will sleep in their car for a week to achieve the same. Both people do still fundamentally have the same options available to them though unless you're one of those 800 pound people they need to forklift out of their house when they need to go to the hospital.

 

[Silvanus]

For me, more than the ideal amount. For the people I'm talking about that have money problems, they have 0 housing costs.

Which might be fine for many places in the US depending on the cost of living there. Where I live, the car wash place starts you at $15/hour, it's not hard to find a job that pays enough right now and you don't need a college degree.

Still just relying on anecdote, then. Not much I can do about that.

If you pay say $50 for service and your phone was $720 (for easy math purposes)

LOL

 

[Agema]

For me, more than the ideal amount. For the people I'm talking about that have money problems, they have 0 housing costs.

Some people with relatively good salaries mighty prefer a luxury car, GTX 3070 in their computer or a holiday so have little for a regular bar bill, that's a choice they are free to make and I would not begrudge them it. But these are not "money problems" in the sense anyone else is talking about here. Complaining that people on decent salaries could do better than buying the latest iPhone 13 on the most expensive call plan is missing the point completely. We're talking about poverty, not the luxuries that people on comfortable salaries decide to brighten up their life with.

A lot of people lack money because they have very little. You say you earn $20 an hour - presumably in full time employment that's about $800 a week or about $40,000 a year. For a single person without many high costs and relatively no-frills lifestyle, that is indeed plenty. But that's not the position many millions of Americans are in. To start with, according to the US census, the median personal income in the USA in 2020 was ~$35,000, and that being the median, necessarily some people have income significantly lower.

Some of them then also have to pay for dependents, medical bills and other necessities that you don't. Some will be hit by unlucky one-offs that put them into debt and have their income sucked away in interest repayments. Some of them will be poorly educated or not as bright, and find it harder to economise. They may have drug addictions (including nicotine, alcohol). I would also count that people can be under different quality of life pressures: social obligations, leisure pursuits, etc.: they can in theory not pay for these, but it might have serious ramifications (e.g. social restrictions, mental health) if they do not.

 

[thebobmaster]

Here's something to consider when you talk about how easy it is to just move to another state. There is a group called Out of Reach, which is a group that aims at exposing the gap between minimum wage and what is actually needed to afford rentals. According to their calculations based on the average cost of rentals and the state minimum wage, the cheapest state to live in (Arkansas) would require you to work 44 hours at minimum wage to afford a one bedroom rental at fair market value. You might notice that is slightly more than full-time. Unless you are extremely fortunate and are able to already own a home and be able to sell it and buy one for cheaper elsewhere, and be able to land on your feet with a job quickly when you do move, it's pretty likely that moving to another state is flat-out unfeasible compared to just desperately holding onto whatever you currently have.

Out of Reach: Arkansas | National Low Income Housing Coalition

#OOR23 shows how difficult it is for renters to find affordable housing. Find out how much a renter must earn to afford a modest home at https://nlihc.org/oor

nlihc.org

 

[Trunkage]

So, quick question, how much do you guys spend a month on your cell phones (the monthly service fee + the cost of the phone)? If you pay say $50 for service and your phone was $720 (for easy math purposes), then you're monthly cost in essence would be $70 a month going by a 3-year life span for the phone (20x36months = 720). Some people pay off the phone monthly with the service charge so the phone cost would already be included in that if you do that.

A 20% deposit on a house is like 100K

If I get rid of the phone, I can have enough money to get a loan for a house in.... 120 years. Also, I'm probably out of a job becuase phones are necessary

Edit: I feel like I need to make it clear that I'm only talking about the deposit, not the whole house

I can cut it down to $86 if I move to Tasmania, though. that'll only require 100 years of saving

It's almost like saving money on phones will hardly do anything to help you buy a house

Anyway, I'm just going to assume that you don't know that anecdotes aren't real evidence. It's just proves that you know people who are bad with money

Also, if a company 'can't afford to pay workers extra money', why dont you tell the bosses to stop buying yachts?

 

[Trunkage]

lmao, next he's going to talk about avocado toast.

Well, you can save $5 a day if you dont have avo toast. That's $35 a week. $1820 a year. You'll have enough for a deposit in 54 years

Better get on it

Also, I dont buy avo toast so......

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Some people with relatively good salaries mighty prefer a luxury car, GTX 3070 in their computer or a holiday so have little for a regular bar bill, that's a choice they are free to make and I would not begrudge them it. But these are not "money problems" in the sense anyone else is talking about here. Complaining that people on decent salaries could do better than buying the latest iPhone 13 on the most expensive call plan is missing the point completely. We're talking about poverty, not the luxuries that people on comfortable salaries decide to brighten up their life with.

A lot of people lack money because they have very little. You say you earn $20 an hour - presumably in full time employment that's about $800 a week or about $40,000 a year. For a single person without many high costs and relatively no-frills lifestyle, that is indeed plenty. But that's not the position many millions of Americans are in. To start with, according to the US census, the median personal income in the USA in 2020 was ~$35,000, and that being the median, necessarily some people have income significantly lower.

Some of them then also have to pay for dependents, medical bills and other necessities that you don't. Some will be hit by unlucky one-offs that put them into debt and have their income sucked away in interest repayments. Some of them will be poorly educated or not as bright, and find it harder to economise. They may have drug addictions (including nicotine, alcohol). I would also count that people can be under different quality of life pressures: social obligations, leisure pursuits, etc.: they can in theory not pay for these, but it might have serious ramifications (e.g. social restrictions, mental health) if they do not.

If you can't afford luxury things, then don't buy luxury things; if you can, then fine. Besides for the stuff you're really into (your hobby or whatever), you can get a quality product if you just go 1 or 2 tiers up from bottom tier and chances are you won't even notice or care about the difference because it's not something you really care about to begin with. Like why buy some expensive wireless earbuds if you aren't an audiophile? For hobby stuff that's important to you, you can spend for the better stuff.

So many people I know, most of their problems are mainly their own fault. This one guy that used to work with me said he was really good with money (put money away and whatnot) when I first got hired and in about a week, I knew he was shit with money. He bought some Alienware laptop that he said was a good deal but wasn't at all because it's an Alienware laptop and we're both IT people, you don't buy Alienware if you're a tech person (it's like common sense). Then, he bought a new car and new cars are total wastes of money. And shocker, he had to move back in with his parents, but he's just so good with money... Another friend I haven't mentioned yet has worked at Subway for probably 20 years now and just recently got health insurance and it's his own fault for staying there this whole time, he could've easily got a better job and then he posts about how everything is stacked against people, it's all the system's fault, etc when he could've improved his situation himself. Sure the system isn't great by any means, but you do have the ability to improve your situation yourself (not as much as you'd like or what it should be, but you can). Also, he just recently got an $800 phone.

A 20% deposit on a house is like 100K

If I get rid of the phone, I can have enough money to get a loan for a house in.... 120 years. Also, I'm probably out of a job becuase phones are necessary

Edit: I feel like I need to make it clear that I'm only talking about the deposit, not the whole house

I can cut it down to $86 if I move to Tasmania, though. that'll only require 100 years of saving

It's almost like saving money on phones will hardly do anything to help you buy a house

Anyway, I'm just going to assume that you don't know that anecdotes aren't real evidence. It's just proves that you know people who are bad with money

Also, if a company 'can't afford to pay workers extra money', why dont you tell the bosses to stop buying yachts?

Why are you buying a $500,000 house? The phone question was leading into that stat of people not having $400 for some emergency expense, not saving up for a house. If you just get a normal phone and normal plan, you'd have that $400 in a few months. And then if you used the same logic for other things that you buy, you'd have a lot more money obviously (to save up for bigger expenses). I, for example, have a monthly phone cost of $20/month; I have the $15/month T-Mobile pre-paid service and my phone is a Moto G8 Power that retailed for $180 in 2020 when I bought it so that's $5/month if I use the phone for 3 years and I've already had it for 2 years and it's still doing really good on battery life (I only charge twice a week). The average person's phone cost is a microcosm for how poor they are with managing money.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Another friend I haven't mentioned yet has worked at Subway for probably 20 years now and just recently got health insurance and it's his own fault for staying there this whole time, he could've easily got a better job and then he posts about how everything is stacked against people, it's all the system's fault, etc when he could've improved his situation himself. Sure the system isn't great by any means, but you do have the ability to improve your situation yourself (not as much as you'd like or what it should be, but you can).

I am continually shocked by your ability to run headfirst into the point and just plow right through it without noticing

Why are you buying a $500,000 house? The phone question was leading into that stat of people not having $400 for some emergency expense, not saving up for a house. If you just get a normal phone and normal plan, you'd have that $400 in a few months. And then if you used the same logic for other things that you buy, you'd have a lot more money obviously (to save up for bigger expenses). I, for example, have a monthly phone cost of $20/month; I have the $15/month T-Mobile pre-paid service and my phone is a Moto G8 Power that retailed for $180 in 2020 when I bought it so that's $5/month if I use the phone for 3 years and I've already had it for 2 years and it's still doing really good on battery life (I only charge twice a week). The average person's phone cost is a microcosm for how poor they are with managing money.

The median cost of a home in the US is currently $428,000

So about that avocado toast.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I am continually shocked by your ability to run headfirst into the point and just plow right through it without noticing

The median cost of a home in the US is currently $428,000

So about that avocado toast.

What point? I'd love to here what BS this is.

Here's a perfectly fine home in a good neighborhood with great schools and low crime. This is in the Chicagoland area, not in some rural area in the middle of nowhere. Again, why do you need to spend half a million on a house?

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/9608-Cypress-Ave_Munster_IN_46321_M48144-12713

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

What point? I'd love to here what BS this is.

You said it yourself: "the system isn't great by any means". You then have absolutely zero motivation to fix said system

Here's a perfectly fine home in a good neighborhood with great schools and low crime. This is in the Chicagoland area, not in some rural area in the middle of nowhere. Again, why do you need to spend half a million on a house?

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/9608-Cypress-Ave_Munster_IN_46321_M48144-12713

Do you just not know what an anecdote is or what?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

You said it yourself: "the system isn't great by any means". You then have absolutely zero motivation to fix said system


Do you just not know what an anecdote is or what?

Why the fuck do you need to fix the system to leave a crappy job? The system isn't so bad that you need to stay at a crappy Subway job for 20 years. See, I knew that was gonna be a BS "point" you were trying to make. My last job was a crappy job and got fired for calling off sick and didn't even try keeping the job in the "meeting" I had the Monday after, I probably could've kept that job but I knew it was better for me to not stay there so I didn't even try.

How many other nice houses I need to find that aren't 500k before it's not an anecdote? Just like you don't need a $800 phone, you don't need a 500k house. A lot of people don't even need a standard house, there's other buying options out there that are cheaper than a standard house.

 

[Trunkage]

Why the fuck do you need to fix the system to leave a crappy job? The system isn't so bad that you need to stay at a crappy Subway job for 20 years. See, I knew that was gonna be a BS "point" you were trying to make. My last job was a crappy job and got fired for calling off sick and didn't even try keeping the job in the "meeting" I had the Monday after, I probably could've kept that job but I knew it was better for me to not stay there so I didn't even try.

How many other nice houses I need to find that aren't 500k before it's not an anecdote? Just like you don't need a $800 phone, you don't need a 500k house. A lot of people don't even need a standard house, there's other buying options out there that are cheaper than a standard house.

So, what you are saying is, you're very privileged

I do have a mortgage. I could never act this reckless moneywise

 

[Trunkage]

Why are you buying a $500,000 house? The phone question was leading into that stat of people not having $400 for some emergency expense, not saving up for a house. If you just get a normal phone and normal plan, you'd have that $400 in a few months. And then if you used the same logic for other things that you buy, you'd have a lot more money obviously (to save up for bigger expenses). I, for example, have a monthly phone cost of $20/month; I have the $15/month T-Mobile pre-paid service and my phone is a Moto G8 Power that retailed for $180 in 2020 when I bought it so that's $5/month if I use the phone for 3 years and I've already had it for 2 years and it's still doing really good on battery life (I only charge twice a week). The average person's phone cost is a microcosm for how poor they are with managing money.

The average mean price for a house in Australia is $941k

Now, to be fair, I haven't checked it since the pandemic. I thought it would be 700k and new the average new home was like 200k less than that. House prices go up 25% per year here. Also, interesting tib bit I just learnt, regional prices are going up higher city prices in the states with Sydney and Melbourne

So 500K may be an understatement

Edit: I can also bring up ancedotes of people I know who bought the basic ***** houses in their early 20s. They no longer have houses because it's irresponsible

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Why the fuck do you need to fix the system to leave a crappy job? The system isn't so bad that you need to stay at a crappy Subway job for 20 years. See, I knew that was gonna be a BS "point" you were trying to make. My last job was a crappy job and got fired for calling off sick and didn't even try keeping the job in the "meeting" I had the Monday after, I probably could've kept that job but I knew it was better for me to not stay there so I didn't even try.

We're trying to help whole populations here, my dude, not a small number of individuals. If a "flood" of interstate immigration is 20,000, what's millions?

How many other nice houses I need to find that aren't 500k before it's not an anecdote?

Enough to lower the median house range to significantly lower than $428,000. That's how stats work

 

[Trunkage]

Enough to lower the median house range to significantly lower than $428,000. That's how stats work

Even if you we took 300K as the benchmark.... it's still over 50 years of getting rid of mobiles. And Phoenixings is suggests you still can have a phone - just a cheaper one. So it would take longer

Phoenixings is making up an example of certain 'poor people' (highly likely not poor people at all. It's usually rich kids who don't have lots of money yet as they are fresh out of Uni but can use their parents' money) and pretending that's how ALL poor exist. I.e. He's doing the exact same thing as he did with trans athletes - applying a general statement to every individual

 

[Gordon_4]

If you can't afford luxury things, then don't buy luxury things; if you can, then fine. Besides for the stuff you're really into (your hobby or whatever), you can get a quality product if you just go 1 or 2 tiers up from bottom tier and chances are you won't even notice or care about the difference because it's not something you really care about to begin with. Like why buy some expensive wireless earbuds if you aren't an audiophile? For hobby stuff that's important to you, you can spend for the better stuff.

So many people I know, most of their problems are mainly their own fault. This one guy that used to work with me said he was really good with money (put money away and whatnot) when I first got hired and in about a week, I knew he was shit with money. He bought some Alienware laptop that he said was a good deal but wasn't at all because it's an Alienware laptop and we're both IT people, you don't buy Alienware if you're a tech person (it's like common sense). Then, he bought a new car and new cars are total wastes of money. And shocker, he had to move back in with his parents, but he's just so good with money... Another friend I haven't mentioned yet has worked at Subway for probably 20 years now and just recently got health insurance and it's his own fault for staying there this whole time, he could've easily got a better job and then he posts about how everything is stacked against people, it's all the system's fault, etc when he could've improved his situation himself. Sure the system isn't great by any means, but you do have the ability to improve your situation yourself (not as much as you'd like or what it should be, but you can). Also, he just recently got an $800 phone.


Why are you buying a $500,000 house? The phone question was leading into that stat of people not having $400 for some emergency expense, not saving up for a house. If you just get a normal phone and normal plan, you'd have that $400 in a few months. And then if you used the same logic for other things that you buy, you'd have a lot more money obviously (to save up for bigger expenses). I, for example, have a monthly phone cost of $20/month; I have the $15/month T-Mobile pre-paid service and my phone is a Moto G8 Power that retailed for $180 in 2020 when I bought it so that's $5/month if I use the phone for 3 years and I've already had it for 2 years and it's still doing really good on battery life (I only charge twice a week). The average person's phone cost is a microcosm for how poor they are with managing money.

Very few people are buying $500,000 houses because there are so few relatively inexpensive properties to be had.

 

[Silvanus]

Rare footage of Phoenixmgs in the wild.

 

[Schadrach]

The median cost of a home in the US is currently $428,000

...and that's just another reason to not live in the densest urban areas. The costs there are ridiculous, and housing somewhere more rural is less than half that. A 3 bed 2 bath somewhere rural can be had in the $100k-$200k range.

 

[Terminal Blue]

...and that's just another reason to not live in the densest urban areas. The costs there are ridiculous, and housing somewhere more rural is less than half that. A 3 bed 2 bath somewhere rural can be had in the $100k-$200k range.

Sure, but this assumes you can find a job in a rural area or afford the cost of owning a car and paying for parking, not to mention the time, ecological impact and the social alienation of living far from friends and colleagues in a community you probably have no connection to.

The fact that there is much less demand for housing in rural areas isn't just a coincidence. There are real problems with living there.

The reason there is a lack of affordable housing in urban areas isn't because people are too dumb to go live in bumfuck nowhere, it's because affordable housing gets bought up in buy-to-let schemes. The obvious solution is subsidized social housing, but conservative governments won't do that because it would lower demand for rented property and something something free market.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So, what you are saying is, you're very privileged

I do have a mortgage. I could never act this reckless moneywise

I didn't realize not even being middle-class for income = very privileged

I'm like the least reckless with money.

The average mean price for a house in Australia is $941k

Now, to be fair, I haven't checked it since the pandemic. I thought it would be 700k and new the average new home was like 200k less than that. House prices go up 25% per year here. Also, interesting tib bit I just learnt, regional prices are going up higher city prices in the states with Sydney and Melbourne

So 500K may be an understatement

Edit: I can also bring up ancedotes of people I know who bought the basic ***** houses in their early 20s. They no longer have houses because it's irresponsible

I also said you can own a place without buying an actual house, houses aren't the only living option out there, I don't have a house because I didn't want a house, too much upkeep and maintenance for me.

We're trying to help whole populations here, my dude, not a small number of individuals. If a "flood" of interstate immigration is 20,000, what's millions?

Enough to lower the median house range to significantly lower than $428,000. That's how stats work

That was never a conversation I was apart of. And you're obviously not for trying to help whole populations because you keep voting the same people into power that actively hurt whole populations.

...

Even if you we took 300K as the benchmark.... it's still over 50 years of getting rid of mobiles. And Phoenixings is suggests you still can have a phone - just a cheaper one. So it would take longer

Phoenixings is making up an example of certain 'poor people' (highly likely not poor people at all. It's usually rich kids who don't have lots of money yet as they are fresh out of Uni but can use their parents' money) and pretending that's how ALL poor exist. I.e. He's doing the exact same thing as he did with trans athletes - applying a general statement to every individual

You're missing the whole fucking point. The phone example is a microcosm. You do that for everything in your life. You know, like, manage ALL your money properly...

Why do you all have to make up bullshit things just to keep your narrative going? I do not hang with "rich kids". The one friend who needed a new engine for his car lives in Riverdale Illinois and here's the Google front page searching for "riverdale illinois", that look like a rich neighborhood? A boarded up house is literally the 1st picture. And the friend's house is in such bad condition, he's probably just gonna sell it to a contractor (because he can't actually sell it to a buyer because of the state it's in) for a few thousand bucks. Yep, but he's somehow rich and somehow a kid (in his 40s) in your head just to keep your narrative going...

Rare footage of Phoenixmgs in the wild.

So making income under middle-class is now Lucille Bluth?

Sure, but this assumes you can find a job in a rural area or afford the cost of owning a car and paying for parking, not to mention the time and ecological impact and the social alienation of living far from friends and colleagues in a community you probably have no connection to.

The fact that there is much less demand for housing in rural areas isn't just a coincidence. There are real problems with living there, both in terms of personal finance and ecological impact.

The reason there is a lack of affordable housing in urban areas isn't because people are too dumb to go live in bumfuck nowhere, it's because affordable housing gets bought up in buy-to-let schemes. The obvious solution is subsidized social housing, but conservative governments won't do that because it would lower demand for rented property and something something free market.

Living in a big city is just ridiculously expensive. There's tons of happy medium places that isn't a big city nor rural area. And liberal governments keep voting against affordable housing constantly...