The Border

[hanselthecaretaker]

So apparently the situation there is getting more challenging to say the least.

A 'radical shift' at the border is making things tougher for Biden | CNN

A major detail is missing from many conversations about the rising number of migrants coming to the US-Mexico border.

www.cnn.com

"There were Colombians, Bangladeshis, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Haitians," she said. "It felt like the whole world was in there."

The question would seem to be, if border officials state they don’t have the capacity to merely process this influx, then what does it speak for whatever follows?

It’s an unfortunate reality, but there are limits to things like housing, utility resources, medical care, even jobs. We still largely can’t even take care of our current population worth a shit, so how will all these additional people fare?

Everyone wants and deserves a shot at a better life, but the circumstances of modern day immigration and say from the industrial revolution days have gotten a lot thicker and more complex; not least of which the factors of population and urban development have seen orders of magnitude levels of expansion since then. We also didn’t give a shit about the environment back then and now we’re paying for that on top of everything else.

 

[Silvanus]

It’s an unfortunate reality, but there are limits to things like housing, utility resources, medical care, even jobs. We still largely can’t even take care of our current population worth a shit, so how will all these additional people fare?

There are limits to those things, but the US-- the wealthiest country on the planet, with an enormous amount of sparsely-populated land-- is nowhere near them.

They could take care of the current population. They choose not to-- They choose to concentrate the available resources among a tiny proportion instead, and then fritter away billions more on unnecessary expenditures.

 

[Piscian]

Put'm all on Elon Musks lawn. Rename it Elonhannesburg.

 

[Trunkage]

So apparently the situation there is getting more challenging to say the least.

A 'radical shift' at the border is making things tougher for Biden | CNN

A major detail is missing from many conversations about the rising number of migrants coming to the US-Mexico border.

www.cnn.com

"There were Colombians, Bangladeshis, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Haitians," she said. "It felt like the whole world was in there."

The question would seem to be, if border officials state they don’t have the capacity to merely process this influx, then what does it speak for whatever follows?

It’s an unfortunate reality, but there are limits to things like housing, utility resources, medical care, even jobs. We still largely can’t even take care of our current population worth a shit, so how will all these additional people fare?

Everyone wants and deserves a shot at a better life, but the circumstances of modern day immigration and say from the industrial revolution days have gotten a lot thicker and more complex; not least of which the factors of population and urban development have seen orders of magnitude levels of expansion since then. We also didn’t give a shit about the environment back then and now we’re paying for that on top of everything else.

I think you've made a bad assumption

Yes, the US doesn't look after its own population. No, the US CAN look after its own population. Very easily. It chooses not to. Very deliberately

For example, the US probably has enough empty houses to give to the homeless and the refugees. They would never do that becuase... bootstraps

There are 2 million refugees from Ukraine in just Poland. There are 3.5 million refugees in Turkey from Syria... from a decade ago. They found a way to make it work. Its not that the US cant help. It has decided not to help. Very deliberately

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

There are limits to those things, but the US-- the wealthiest country on the planet, with an enormous amount of sparsely-populated land-- is nowhere near them.

They could take care of the current population. They choose not to-- They choose to concentrate the available resources among a tiny proportion instead, and then fritter away billions more on unnecessary expenditures.

Though even the used most efficiently, our available resources would be strained long before all that sparsely populated land was filled with people. We still need millions of acres to farm various crops, maintaining an ecological balance, all the while curbing various types of pollution, etc.

You’re correct about frittering away billions on unnecessary expenditures. For instance, it’s long past time we start rethinking our eating habits. The sad part is it will only happen if there’s more money to be made doing so.

 

[Silvanus]

Though even the used most efficiently, our available resources would be strained long before all that sparsely populated land was filled with people. We still need millions of acres to farm various crops, maintaining an ecological balance, all the while curbing various types of pollution, etc.

Sure. But the population growth represented by immigration would not take the US near that point for many decades at least.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

The problem with the border is there being one at all.

 

[Gergar12]

I would much rather have people who are willing to work, raise children, and etc. Then rich oligarchs coming from China, Russia, and etc that drive up housing prices, don’t start viable businesses, and generally hate the western world like the Chinese communists in Vancouver.

 

[Silvanus]

I would much rather have people who are willing to work, raise children, and etc. Then rich oligarchs coming from China, Russia, and etc that drive up housing prices, don’t start viable businesses, and generally hate the western world like the Chinese communists in Vancouver.

Or indeed American oligarchs, who also do all of those things.

 

[Gergar12]

We should take them in, and not because of idealistic AOC tier arguments about morality. We need them to build counter-climate change infrastructure, and to counter sociopathic climate deniers in the GOP, and whom pretend to not be in the GOP, but agree with their stance on climate change. If a republican gets in office and orders the US government to shoot them on site like many people in the left are predicting, we should immediately have people in the streets.

 

[tstorm823]

If a republican gets in office and orders the US government to shoot them on site like many people in the left are predicting, we should immediately have people in the streets.

Do you understand how unhinged this prediction is? It's like if a crazy redneck Republican said the next Democrat was going to make it mandatory to worship satan in kindergarten.

 

[Silvanus]

Do you understand how unhinged this prediction is? It's like if a crazy redneck Republican said the next Democrat was going to make it mandatory to worship satan in kindergarten.

Quick reminder that at least 3 Republican congressmen have promoted the conspiracy theory that the Democrats are aligned with Satanic paedophiles, and over 30 Republican candidates in the upcoming midterms have done the same. Dangerously unhinged attacks are welcomed with open arms in the (modern) Republican Party.

Please also recall that Trump did entertain the idea of shooting migrants. Publicly he said migrants who threw rocks could be shot, and privately he talked about shooting migrants in the legs.

 

[tstorm823]

Quick reminder that at least 3 Republican congressmen have promoted the conspiracy theory that the Democrats are aligned with Satanic paedophiles, and over 30 Republican candidates in the upcoming midterms have done the same. Dangerously unhinged attacks are welcomed with open arms in the (modern) Republican Party.

Democrats pay more than Republicans to promote those candidates, and then pay even more than that to make you think they believe those things.

 

[Gergar12]

Democrats pay more than Republicans to promote those candidates, and then pay even more than that to make you think they believe those things.

Blame the D triple C/Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee which believes two things

A moderate republican like various Ohio republican governors(relatively speaking), Larry Hogan, etc. will beat them(They could, and had Hillary run against anyone else other than Trump she would have lost the popular vote unless they were Ted Cruz who would have just lost the popular vote, but win the election)

That a scary republican will force young people to vote out necessary. (it's kind of working, my congressional rep changed from a moderate republican to Jim Jordan for example due to gerrymandering, guess what I will be doing in Nov 2022)

However, my political analysis may be less correct as time goes on. Republicans have dropped the ball on climate change, weed legalization, and abortion and or guns. They are stuck in the past, and even if the most moderate republican wins, but hold highly regressive ideas on those three issues they will narrowly lose.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Forgive me the polemics, but I get the impression just opening the borders and hoping that better people will settle there is probably the best thing America could do.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Though even the used most efficiently, our available resources would be strained long before all that sparsely populated land was filled with people. We still need millions of acres to farm various crops, maintaining an ecological balance, all the while curbing various types of pollution, etc.

The US is the largest food exporter in the world. More than 20% of agricultural production in the US is exported.

There's a weird dance on the political right where on one hand the free market is a perfect, infallible machine capable of solving all economic problems, and on the other hand the wealthiest economies on the planet will implode if subject to the slightest economic stress. Neither of these extremes are true.

 

[Silvanus]

Democrats pay more than Republicans to promote those candidates, and then pay even more than that to make you think they believe those things.

They've loudly and unambiguously claimed support for those things in their own fucking words.

The bit about funding is just a straight-up lie. The Democratic Party did funnel some money into fringe Republican candidates in a moronic and self-defeating electoral effort, that's true-- but the Republican Party is the one that put forward those candidates; its voters were the ones who chose them; and the Republican Party put far more money into their election.

 

[Dreiko]

The solution is that you have to enhance the processing capacity for these people and summarily conclude their business so they don't need to remain at the border for long periods of time. Just reject them quickly and efficiently or let them get their business sorted so they can begin contributing to the country. You have to divert the money going to housing them into processing them. You also cut down on the cost of policing the border tremendously that way too.


I don't understand why you need to house all those people inside the country in some crappy campsite or what have you when you could just be rid of them one way or another, it's totally inefficient. And if it's a case of kids just coming over by themselves, you can just have a policy of deporting them on the spot if they come without parents to remove the need for housing them in the country when they can't support themselves.

Or indeed American oligarchs, who also do all of those things.

Call me crazy but I think getting the oligarchs to pay bountiful wages to americans to do these jobs is gonna deal them a heavier blow than importing more desperate indentured servants for them to exploit. We already have people willing to work here, we just don't pay em enough.

 

[Silvanus]

Call me crazy but I think getting the oligarchs to pay bountiful wages to americans to do these jobs is gonna deal them a heavier blow than importing more desperate indentured servants for them to exploit. We already have people willing to work here, we just don't pay em enough.

I'm not sure how this relates to what I said, or even really what the point being made is.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Forgive me the polemics, but I get the impression just opening the borders and hoping that better people will settle there is probably the best thing America could do.

I mean, you aren't wrong, even ignoring polemics. There's a strong case to be made on ethical and economic grounds that open boarders tied with workplace protections to avoid exploitation is a good move to make. Gets everybody into paying taxes, prevents the idea of paying undocumented workers a sub-minimum wage which depresses other labor wages, allows immigrants to seek protection and recourse for illegal workplace practices and safety hazards, etc.