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Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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Just when I thought things were getting slow again.

There was some debate whether or not Ukraine would destroy the bridge and judging form how long it took they may have been some hesitant to do so.

The two reasons not to hit the bridge were one economic use after the war and two allowing a way for Russians to escape if or when they invade.

But despite those two factors Ukraine seem to have gone with it anyway

Edit: also on Putin birthday
 
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Silvanus

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Here we have a very sensible chart from the Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda 3 months back.

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Kind of like how it's "unclear" how the Sich battalion is connected to the Sich movement.
What's really amusing about this retort is that the Sich Battalion, named after the historical Cossacks, were set up by Svoboda in 2014, and genuinely are unrelated to the Sich societies which sprung up in numerous countries worldwide in the early Twentieth century and were connected to the Socialist Radical Party.
 
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Dalisclock

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Here we have a very sensible chart from the Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda 3 months back.
Honestly Operation Colossal Failure( колоссальный провал, if online translators are correct) should be the name of the entire Russian invasion thus far. Though it would be a bit on the nose.


Just when I thought things were getting slow again.

There was some debate whether or not Ukraine would destroy the bridge and judging form how long it took they may have been some hesitant to do so.

The two reasons not to hit the bridge were one economic use after the war and two allowing a way for Russians to escape if or when they invade.

But despite those two factors Ukraine seem to have gone with it anyway

Edit: also on Putin birthday
Giving the Russians on the Peninsula an escape route would be the most compelling reason not to, though cutting off Crimean supplies before winter would be a good reason to blow up the big fucker. Apparently with the bridge gone there's a grand total of two highway that runs into Crimea, both of which will soon be within striking distance of HIMARS if they aren't already. That'll limit them to resupply by sea via Sevastopol but that requires Russia to risk their naval assets, which also soon be within range of Ukrainian artillery and Neptune missiles.
 
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Silvanus

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Giving the Russians on the Peninsula an escape route would be the most compelling reason not to, though cutting off Crimean supplies before winter would be a good reason to blow up the big fucker. Apparently with the bridge gone there's a grand total of two highway that runs into Crimea, both of which will soon be within striking distance of HIMARS if they aren't already. That'll limit them to resupply by sea via Sevastopol but that requires Russia to risk their naval assets, which also soon be within range of Ukrainian artillery and Neptune missiles.
Well, the bridge isn't fully gone: it consists of two road crossings and one rail crossing. Several sections of a fuel train on the rail crossing ignited (which is quite clear from the videos), so we can assume the rail is out of operation, and that's likely to be the most important of the three from a resupply point of view.

Some sections of one of the roads, at least, were also damaged enough to fall into the sea (there's also photos available of that). But there's still another roadway, and the Russian government have said they can get the other roadway operational quite quickly. So unless they're bullshitting again (which is always a possibility) the railway is likely to be the main lasting damage.

Which would probably be the highest priority target for Ukraine anyway.
 

Dalisclock

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In other news, Reddit gonna Reddit


So as NCD do, they were making a ton of jokes and memes about blowing up the Kerch bridge a month or so ago, which then tapered off when the Ukraians started just rolling the Russian forces around Kharkiv and the Nordstream explosions.

So now every other post is a joke about the Bridge exploding again. Of course, every single comment in the ban thread is also a joke about the bridge going Boom, so there you go.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Well, the bridge isn't fully gone: it consists of two road crossings and one rail crossing. Several sections of a fuel train on the rail crossing ignited (which is quite clear from the videos), so we can assume the rail is out of operation, and that's likely to be the most important of the three from a resupply point of view.
Well, in that it'd be an important target, presumably it was intentional and presumably they'd get it right.

However, if they were just trying to blow up the road crossing and for some reason leave the rail alone, they could easily damage a nearby train and maybe set it on fire if it was full of flammable stuff without doing much damage to the rails. Apparently in WW2 Allied saboteurs found it more difficult than they expected to properly wreck trainlines.
 

Terminal Blue

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Just when I thought things were getting slow again.

There was some debate whether or not Ukraine would destroy the bridge and judging form how long it took they may have been some hesitant to do so.

The two reasons not to hit the bridge were one economic use after the war and two allowing a way for Russians to escape if or when they invade.

But despite those two factors Ukraine seem to have gone with it anyway

Edit: also on Putin birthday
Russia is claiming it was a carbomb.

Unfortunately for them, the driver of the truck they claim was carrying the bomb has been identified as a Russian citizen, so unless it genuinely was an unrelated act of terrorism or Ukrainian special forces has been recruiting from Russian al-Qaeda it seems very unlikely.

The more reasonable explanation is that it was a special forces operation and explosives were placed under the bridge and deliberately detonated to coincide with the fuel cars passing.

I'm not going to condone any kind of bombing of civilian infrastructure, especially when innocent people die, but Russia has a long history of orchestrating similar acts of sabotage with countries it's not even at war with, so I don't really buy their objections in this case.

However, if they were just trying to blow up the road crossing and for some reason leave the rail alone, they could easily damage a nearby train and maybe set it on fire if it was full of flammable stuff without doing much damage to the rails. Apparently in WW2 Allied saboteurs found it more difficult than they expected to properly wreck trainlines.
While rail lines are certainly hard to permanently destroy, bridges in general tend to be pretty fragile. While it's possible the damage there is superficial, they're definately going to want to give it a proper check before sending 10,000 ton freight trains over it.
 

Eacaraxe

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What's really amusing about this retort is that the Sich Battalion, named after the historical Cossacks, were set up by Svoboda in 2014, and genuinely are unrelated to the Sich societies which sprung up in numerous countries worldwide in the early Twentieth century and were connected to the Socialist Radical Party.
You know they're named after the neo-Nazi terrorist group S14, not the Sich riflemen of World War I (or the Cossack groups it consisted of), right? It's called S14 after the Fourteen Words; it got the nickname "Sich" because in Ukrainian it's spelled Січ. And by the way, they were started in 2010; they were reincorporated as a volunteer battalion in 2014. They were literally started by the same party (as you admit, Svoboda) and consist of the same people.

No shit it's unrelated to the Cossacks, it was never intended to be.

The only way you think that backronym shit is legitimate, is if you think Nazis and neo-Nazis would be the last people on Earth to ever commit cultural appropriation as an attempt to legitimize themselves.

Or to put this another way,

 
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Silvanus

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You know they're named after the neo-Nazi terrorist group S14, not the Sich riflemen of World War I (or the Cossack groups it consisted of), right? It's called S14 after the Fourteen Words; it got the nickname "Sich" because in Ukrainian it's spelled Січ. And by the way, they were started in 2010; they were reincorporated as a volunteer battalion in 2014. They were literally started by the same party (as you admit, Svoboda) and consist of the same people.
Two different groups, my dude. 2010's S14, informally "Sich", dissolved and then reformed under a different name. The Sich Battalion self-describes itself as named after the Sich Riflemen.

The only way you think that backronym shit is legitimate, is if you think Nazis and neo-Nazis would be the last people on Earth to ever commit cultural appropriation as an attempt to legitimize themselves.
Backronym... okay, I'm starting to think the point has flown over your head. The point being that a hundred years before either S14 or the Sich Battalion ever existed, there were Sich societies set up around the world, many of them by the Radical Socialist Party. And the neo-Nazi paramilitaries of today have pretty much fuck-all to do with them. So when you sarcastically said "Oh and I bet you believe the Sich Battalion and the Sich movement are unrelated too!", you were ironically using an example where... paramilitaries and a wider movement actually did both share a name despite being utterly unrelated.
 

SilentPony

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So now Russian state TV is claiming the bridge explosion was a declaration of war. And its like, who are you going to go to war with? Shitty engineering projects and Russia's own infamous lack of quality control and safety features? New footage shows the explosion came from underneath the bridge, where the gas pipes run.
Not saying US special forces couldn't have rigged it to blow, but the Russians are just as good at blowing their own stuff up accidently as we are doing it on purpose.
 

Eacaraxe

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Two different groups, my dude. 2010's S14, informally "Sich", dissolved and then reformed under a different name. The Sich Battalion self-describes itself as named after the Sich Riflemen.
Let's just not let that inconvenient fact they were both created by Svoboda and have the same leaders confuse us. "Foundation for the Future" is to what S14 "rebranded", as the youth "activist" wing of Svoboda. They can call themselves Mary, Queen of Scots, for all it matters, they're still fucking neo-Nazis.

"They clearly can't be Nazis, they're only roughly analogous to the Hitler Youth! Theyre the, uh, Stepan Bandera youth!"

Backronym... okay, I'm starting to think the point has flown over your head.
No, you may rest entirely assured nothing has "flown over" my head. You're just openly caping for Nazis at this point because the BBC told you to, and don't want to admit it.

The point being that a hundred years before either S14 or the Sich Battalion ever existed, there were Sich societies set up around the world, many of them by the Radical Socialist Party. And the neo-Nazi paramilitaries of today have pretty much fuck-all to do with them. So when you sarcastically said "Oh and I bet you believe the Sich Battalion and the Sich movement are unrelated too!", you were ironically using an example where... paramilitaries and a wider movement actually did both share a name despite being utterly unrelated.
See earlier point about how Nazis would never, ever culturally appropriate to legitimize themselves, and weasel their way into popular support by performance and optics.
 

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So now Russian state TV is claiming the bridge explosion was a declaration of war. And its like, who are you going to go to war with? Shitty engineering projects and Russia's own infamous lack of quality control and safety features? New footage shows the explosion came from underneath the bridge, where the gas pipes run.
Not saying US special forces couldn't have rigged it to blow, but the Russians are just as good at blowing their own stuff up accidently as we are doing it on purpose.
*Bridge explodes.*
Russia: This is an act of WAR!
Ukraine: ( continuing to press the attack on Kherson) Russia, are you fucking high or something? WE'RE ALREADY AT WAR! Did you think we were just playing really intense game of grab ass for the past 7 months or something?

Or maybe they're gonna blame NATO for this. Better tell Poland and Finland because I think they'll be quite interested to hear there's a bunch of Russians who just declared "Game on".


Special detonation operation.
"Unplanned Bridge Disassembly"
 
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