If you don't give kids tips on handjobs, I won't tell them it's a sin, and we just collectively won't talk about hand jobs to kids. Seem reasonable?
Funny events in anti-woke world
- Thread starter Agema
- Start date
Nope. Kids need to know what a hand job is and why people do them in order to avoid injury and so kids know that "Helping Pastor Dave Wash" is Pastor Dave doing a crime.
The hell kind of compromise is "I get everything I want and you get nothing you want" anyway?
Unfortunately, you also put safe sex in that category. Teenagers fuck, bro. No amount of tantrums on your part is going to change that. If you really want to keep sex in the gutter, go be Catholic by yourself.
You're projecting, duder. You want to impose your morals on everybody else, which is why you accuse everyone else of doing the same thing.
No. Because in that scenario, you impose your morals on everybody else regardless of their wishes.
It's not projection. It's actively what you're all doing. "Making people better lovers is a good thing" is a moral stance you are taking, and you are suggesting public policy based of your personal beliefs on morality, specifically looking to impose them on youth.
No we are talking about empathy which you equate to pity
Eg. You keep saying 'people' yet Ive hardly ever heard 'people' use the words empathy or pity being used in the same sentence as homeless people. Now, I understand that you might be specifically talking about America, and more specifically talking about the Catholic church. Then declare this. Because this is not how people talking about homeless people in Australia or the Catholic church here
I have empathy for Putin. I understand that he felt pressure, a significant and existential threat, from NATO which caused him to invade Ukraine. I do not pity him. Nor do I agree with him
But I got it, you talking about a very specific version of empathy. And pity for that matter. This is why I was asking for a definition
I dont know whether this holds up. Not because your logic isn't sound. It's a situation that is incredibly tricky and one approach usually doesn't work. For example, many times when the addict says they don't want help, they actually mean they do want help, but the drug are effecting the mind. I.e. I could say that I can empathise with most people's feelings. I dont know whether I can for an addict because the feelings are chemically being changed. I know enough about drugs to know that my feelings aren't necessarily coming from me. See also, mental illness
But this not meant to disagree with your argument... I generally get your point
African Americans were allegedly free for 100 years before LBJ and many policies were put in place to get them integrated. They failed. Every single one. If anything, they made it worse. It turns out that racists are going to use whatever means to stop integration. They used what LBJ did as an excuse to be racist. It's a never ending cycle and everything sets them off. They use any policy TODAY to do the same thing, it doesn't matter if its from Obama or Trump, Reagen or Biden
The worst part is that there didnt even need to be that many racists for them to be really effective
I mean, I've asked for people to show empathy towards Christians here on this forum. Like, for example, I have to keep telling everyone here that you are not representative of Catholics. I've stated that they shouldn't use what tstorm or even the Pope says as what many Catholics think. They usually arent related. I've noted many times how evangelicals are usually the ones whi are pro-LBGT in Australia. I have many time translated conservatives speech into progressive speech and vice versa because, despite all speaking English, they aren't using the same language
As to better handjob. you know it doesnt say that. You know classical books say similar things. But I have EMPATHY for your stance. You're trying to protect children. I completely agree with you. But I don't agree with your solution to attain that stance. Having empathy does not require me to agree with your solution. EG. Trump and I agree that the US economy needs help. We do NOT agree on the solutions
I could understand in that book that its picturew and not words, thus might be more confronting. Maybe it could be limited to senior years like having a 16+.section. Or only available as a mandatory English book so you limit the access to it. But banning it. No, I think it should be mandatory read
Or, if you actually believed this is offensive, be sure to go after all the classical who have similar scenes. Eg. I think Brave New World should be banned well before this book.
Lastly, if you ever feel like I'm asking you to empathise or pity homeless, don't worry, Im not. I asking you to DO something for the homeless. I don't care if you are happy, sad, angry or hate the homeless. Your feelings arent important to you helping them. I asking you to do, not feel (With the obvious proviso that you CAN actually help in someway. Eg. You might not be able to help with a drug addict.)
VENICE, Fla. (AP) — It was less than three weeks before the Sarasota County, Florida, school board election when the former White House national security adviser weighed in on the local political race.
“These ‘woke’ members need to be defeated in detail this upcoming election,” Michael Flynn posted on Telegram on Aug. 6. “Our children’s lives and futures are at risk when our school boards here in Florida and around the nation shove (critical race theory) and transgender nonsense down their throats.”
A few days later, the retired three-star Army general who spent decades enmeshed in international conflict weighed in again on the local election: “‘WOKE’ SOBs operating in many counties and on many school boards across the country” have to be voted out or censured “and some just need to be arrested.”
Later that month, Flynn’s chosen candidates — who were also backed by Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis — defeated three school board candidates backed by Democrats.
Flynn, who just eight years ago under President Barack Obama led the U.S. military’s intelligence agency, now is at the center of a far-right Christian nationalist movement that has a growing influence in the Republican Party. In speeches across the U.S., he urges his supporters to get involved in local politics as a way to change the country from the bottom up.
“Local action equals national impact,” Flynn says at nearly every stop.
___
This story is part of an ongoing investigation from The Associated Press and the PBS series “Frontline” that includes the upcoming documentary “Michael Flynn’s Holy War,” premiering Tuesday on PBS and online.
___
In Sarasota County, Flynn and his allies have created a kind of laboratory for his approach, energizing local conservative activists through social media and public appearances, and gatherings at a venue called The Hollow that has become a meeting place for the far right. He questions American democratic institutions, repeats lies about the 2020 election, attacks the news media and embraces conspiracy theories about COVID-19. One of the groups he’s welcomed into the fold is the violent extremist group the Proud Boys.
The political marriage between a man who once sat at the right hand of President Donald Trump and local extremists in Sarasota County starts in some ways on Jan. 6, 2021, and with their failed attempts to thwart the democratic process and keep Trump in power.
___
It was insurrection day and Flynn, American flag hat atop his head, sat in the VIP section of the rally as Trump urged his supporters to march on the U.S. Capitol and stop Congress from confirming that he had lost the election.
Less than 2 miles (3.2 kilometers) away, James Hoel, decked out in tactical gear, a walkie-talkie on his chest, advanced past the Capitol barricades with fellow members of the Proud Boys, at the vanguard of the deadly riot.
There’s no evidence the two men knew each other on that day. But in the 21 months since Trump’s fight to stay in office came to an end, their paths and interests have crossed again and again.
The Associated Press and the PBS series “Frontline” reported last month that Flynn’s movement envisions Christianity as the basis of American life and institutions; where the right to bear arms is paramount; where abortion is illegal; where concepts such as systemic racism and gay or transgender rights have no place in the schools; and where people who disagree are called “Marxists,” or perverts, and are excluded from American civic life.
Flynn has drawn together election deniers, mask and vaccine opponents, insurrectionists and leaders in state and local Republican parties who are continuing the attack on American democracy and institutions that came to a head on Jan. 6.
After the failed insurrection, Flynn moved to Sarasota County and set out to build a political community of like-minded people. He found an operating base of sorts at a place known as The Hollow in rural Venice. It’s a 10-acre site that’s at times a children’s playland, wedding venue, organizing space and weapons training ground.
The Hollow’s owner, Victor Mellor Sr., is a former Marine who posted on Facebook that he “Just knocked on front doors” of the Capitol on Jan. 6. Mellor told “Frontline” that he was proud he was there that day and once suggested on social media that he would have a “J6 reunion at the Hollow.”
Flynn first visited the site in May 2021, and the next day, Mellor posted on Facebook that there was a “war going on” and pledged “all our resources to the Flynns in this battle.” Since then the Hollow has turned into a center of activity for Sarasota County’s far right.
The Hollow, a 10-acre site in Venice, Fla. (Richard Rowley/Frontline via AP)
Last fall, the Hollow drew thousands to events with Flynn in attendance where doctors distributed mask and vaccine waivers for school children. The site hosts political groups and candidates, offers free playdates — with water slides, zip lines and a bouncy house — has advertised classes on “Biblical citizenship,” food storage and wound and trauma care, and provides access to a neighboring, unpermitted gun range to ex-military and law enforcement. The gun range has hosted groups as large as 40 and has offered free shooting lessons to children as young as 6.
Visitors enter through a bunker-like windowless hallway, painted black and filled with quotes, many of which push the idea that violent revolution is part of the nation’s history and possibly its future. “To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them,” reads one. A Thomas Jefferson line reads: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
In a meeting space inside, a banner promises “any attempt of violence towards our children will be met with overwhelming deadly force.” On another wall hangs a “soldier’s prayer,” signed by Flynn, that reads in part: “Let Your truth be my shield and buckler/Against the fiery darts — the lies — of the enemy.”
The bunker then opens onto an expansive outdoor space decorated with American flags and bunting and landscaped with palm trees, pathways and pergolas. One winding path connects to an adjacent property that includes the gun range. Mellor said he added a 10-foot cross at Flynn’s suggestion.
Reporters for AP and “Frontline” visited the outskirts of the Hollow in February. Later, Mellor invited a “Frontline” crew inside for a tightly controlled visit and sat down for an interview. Mellor said he was not a right-wing extremist and expressed concern the Hollow would be portrayed as “a militia camp.” He added: “But it is absolutely the opposite spectrum of that.”
Flynn has been visiting the Hollow regularly for over a year, and supporting it financially. After Hurricane Ian swamped the site with several feet of water, Flynn and Mellor visited it together by boat, Mellor told AP. He shared a photo of the two of them, surrounded by floodwaters, folding an American flag.
In a Facebook post by The Hollow, a child participates in a free shooting class at the unpermitted gun range adjacent to The Hollow in Venice, Fla. (AP Photo)
It was at The Hollow where Flynn was seen mixing with Proud Boys, including Hoel.
Photos and video posted on Facebook and a public Telegram chat show Flynn at The Hollow with men wearing the Proud Boys’ signature yellow and black shirts or other gear with the group’s logo. Sarasota lawyer Ron Filipkowski, who tracks far-right figures online, circulated a photo posted on Facebook in September 2021 that showed a man wearing a Proud Boys hat, yellow shirt and bandanna standing with Mellor and Flynn.
The Proud Boys played an important role in the insurrection. One of its members, Jeremy Bertino, pleaded guilty this month to seditious conspiracy for his role in the attack.
Samantha Kutner, an extremism researcher who is an expert on the Proud Boys and runs the consultancy Glitterpill LLC, said grievance is a driving factor in the group: they paint themselves as victims of a progressive society that wants to emasculate them.
Many Proud Boys attended the deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017. They’ve been designated a terrorist organization by the governments of Canada and New Zealand and labeled a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a nonprofit legal advocacy group.
- Takeaways from the AP/Frontline Michael Flynn investigation
Hoel and other Sarasota Proud Boys have taken Flynn’s presence and words as a rallying cry, echoing them in public Telegram chat groups they use to organize their political activities. They have often shared messages from Flynn as a way to encourage each other to get involved in local politics.
In October 2021, Flynn was the featured guest for a family event at the Hollow, “Halloween with General Flynn.” Messages from a public chat on Telegram show Proud Boys and their wives organized to volunteer.
On Oct. 19, Proud Boy Nick Radovich suggested a person whose username is “MilkshakePB” could volunteer for the event. “I can try and take Halloween off to help. Is there a job list and time slot,” MilkshakePB replied. A Proud Boy who goes by the nickname Milkshake has been charged and pleaded not guilty for his alleged actions on Jan. 6.
“Interested in seeing General Flynn and (state GOP Rep. Anthony) Sabatini at the Hollow at no cost? Can you help volunteer for 3 hours at the Halloween event?” Radovich’s wife, Melissa, wrote Oct. 23, one of several posts she made about the event.
A cross stands near a pond at The Hollow. (Richard Rowley/Frontline via AP)
The event promised a “haunted hike” and trick-or-treating for kids, but it also included political speeches by a number of far-right activists, including Flynn and Kimberly Fletcher of Moms for America, one of the groups that organized the rallies in Washington on Jan. 5 and 6, 2021. Organizers said 1,000 people came. A video shows that during the event, Flynn got a standing ovation before telling the crowd that Republicans need to improve their election tactics.
“I can tell you exactly how the Democratic Party does precinct training and then who they put in charge,” Flynn said. “They know exactly where to put people, where to put the thugs.”
He suggested those in the audience should register to be precinct volunteers and poll watchers.
Later that night, Nick Radovich posted a video in a public Telegram chat saying he had met Flynn, and the general had congratulated him for being part of a group that protested outside the school board chair’s house, calling for her to come outdoors for a “ redress of grievances.” Local media had reported on Proud Boys’ involvement in the protest.
“He said good, keep it up,” Radovich said in the video. “So, anybody seeing this should know that we have his approval.”
Two weeks later, Hoel posted a photo he took with Flynn at the Hollow: Hoel wears a Proud Boys shirt, and next to him, Flynn holds up for the camera a Proud Boys emblem.
Mellor told “Frontline” that some Proud Boys had volunteered at the Hollow before he knew they were members of the extremist group.
“They’re just dads and husbands and their kids come out here, OK? You know, they’re part of the society,” he said and added that the Proud Boys are “just another organization that just like any organization is welcomed here.”
It is not clear whether Flynn has a formal relationship with the Hollow, and he and Mellor declined to answer questions on the subject.
Mellor said in a written statement that one of Flynn’s nonprofits, America’s Future Inc., had recently donated $25,000 to purchase an observation dome for a 14.5-inch telescope for the Hollow’s new science and nature program. Flynn has also been soliciting money for the Hollow through a crowdfunding campaign for The America Project, a group he started last year and that AP and “Frontline” previously reported has been spending millions on efforts to advance its agenda, including by undermining trust in elections.
In this photo provided by former Sarasota County School Board Chair Shirley Brown, Proud Boy member James Hoel and others gather outside her home for an anti-mask protest on Oct. 4, 2021. (Shirley Brown via AP)
Some Sarasota residents told AP and “Frontline” that Proud Boys have tried to intimidate people at school board meetings — labeling those who supported masks or sympathized with gay children as “perverts.”
Angela Wynn said she was harassed by a group of Proud Boys when she attended a women’s rights rally with her 10-year-old. She believes Flynn’s outspoken presence in Sarasota has given members of the group confidence and validation.
“Maybe back in the day they would have tried to hide who they are,” Wynn said. “But now they’re just so emboldened and they have this sense of empowerment.”
At one protest, children were photographed hoisting Proud Boys flags.
Carol Lerner, a public education activist and retiree in Sarasota County who is opposed to Flynn’s politics, has visited The Hollow twice and tracked the Proud Boys activities in Sarasota and at The Hollow.
She says Flynn, with the help of Mellor and the Proud Boys, is building an infrastructure to further the attack on American democracy that came to a head on Jan. 6 and using The Hollow to build a community and teach children anti-democratic values.
“It’s pretty. It’s nice. It fills a need. Then you look at what their worldview is, what they’re fighting for. It’s scary. It’s quite frightening,” Lerner said. “It’s kind of like a socialization of insurrection.”
THE CAMPAIGNS
Flynn has said in public speeches that he and his supporters have “flipped” 250 school boards across the country to people who agree with his views. He declined to provide a list of the communities he was referring to. But it’s certain that he counts Sarasota County as one of his success stories.
Flynn, Mellor and the Proud Boys supported candidates in Sarasota that they believed would stand against mask and vaccine mandates, ban books they see as objectionable and stop any talk of sexual orientation.
Owner Victor Mellor, Sr., walks through an entrance hallway at The Hollow in Venice, Fla. (Richard Rowley/Frontline via AP)
Campaign finance records show that Mellor, his business and The Hollow together donated more than half the money raised by a political action committee that backed those candidates. The PAC paid for a mobile billboard calling one Jewish school board candidate a liar and “baby killer,” drawing condemnation from people who noted the term’s history as an antisemitic slur. Flynn’s The America Project kicked in $5,000 to the PAC in the days after the uproar.
As the school board campaign raged, Flynn and his supporters branched out beyond schools. “General Flynn is submitting his application to the Republican Executive committee on Monday,” Nick Radovich wrote on Telegram July 9. “Patriots need to control the Republican party, my wife will bring you an application to join so we can take over the republican party and get rid of the RINOS. Send me date and time where she can meet you.”
In the following weeks, dozens of people submitted paperwork to join the executive committee of the Sarasota County Republican Party, including Flynn, several Flynn family members, Hoel and his wife. The Herald-Tribune newspaper was first to report Flynn’s application to the committee.
On Sept. 8, Hoel and Flynn were sworn in to the party’s executive committee. Flynn signed up to be a poll watcher.
A Sarasota Republican Party spokesman, Rod Thomson, would not comment on whether the party endorses the views Flynn espouses. He said the party was just following its rules when it approved Flynn and Hoel to the 270-member executive committee.
Kutner and others who study extremism see a mutually beneficial relationship between Flynn and Proud Boys, likening it to when then-President Donald Trump called for the Proud Boys to “ stand back and stand by ” ahead of the 2020 election. Flynn is working to consolidate various factions within the GOP, while Proud Boys are trying to gain visibility and legitimacy while deflecting from their actions and involvement during Jan. 6, Kutner said.
“They are trying to engage in local politics,” she said, “because that’s where the fight is now.”
FLYNN RESPONDS
Mellor told AP in a written statement that he and Flynn are “experiencing and nurturing a true grassroots movement in its purest form.”
“I assure you; this is only the beginning.”
Flynn has not answered several questions sent to him since August, both before and after AP and “Frontline” published the article about his political movement on Sept. 7. But a few days after it ran, he held a 90-minute live-streamed response without providing any substantive rebuttal to the article’s findings.
He did, however, reiterate his commitment to local action.
“We’re on the battlefield that I believe is the most important battlefield, which is the local battlefield,” he said. “The terrain that I have chosen to fight on is the local battlefield, the local terrain. And I think that that’s the terrain that will win the day.”
I've brought up a different book. That comment was not about Gender Queer, it was about This Book is Gay, which literally has sex instructions. Really, really cringey ones:
" A GOOD HANDIE is all about the wrist action. Rub the head of his cock back and forth with your hand. Try different speeds and pressures until he responds positively.
A BAD HANDIE is grasping a todger and shaking it like a ketchup bottle."
Recommended reading for middle schoolers right there.
Edit: While I was looking up that section of the book, I found the page before it, which has testimonials of gay people losing their virginity. One of them is:
" ‘On my sixteenth birthday, I went to hang out at a guitar shop near my house which I used to spend a lot of time at. The owner was older, and married, and we’d been flirting with each other for a few months..."
Gay man's first was a married adult who started an affair with a 15 year old and made physical, sexual contact on literally the day he reached the age of consent in their country. And that's packaged in the book as "people lose their virginity in lots of ways", as though that isn't literally a story about an adult man grooming a teenager.
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Seems about right
www.alternet.org
'Macabre': Texas schools send out DNA kits after Greg Abbott signed law following Uvalde massacre
Texas school districts have begun distribution of DNA kits to parents after GOP Governor Greg Abbott signed a law mandating they be made available in the wake of the horrific mass shooting at the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, where 19 students and two teachers were slaughtered in May.
www.alternet.org
It's amusing how you just assign me a position in this argument. Almost as amusing as your desire to make sex taboo. I hate to tell you this, but your parents had sex once.
"WeSeems about right
'Macabre': Texas schools send out DNA kits after Greg Abbott signed law following Uvalde massacre
Texas school districts have begun distribution of DNA kits to parents after GOP Governor Greg Abbott signed a law mandating they be made available in the wake of the horrific mass shooting at the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, where 19 students and two teachers were slaughtered in May.
Useless ass fuck Abbot.Seems about right
'Macabre': Texas schools send out DNA kits after Greg Abbott signed law following Uvalde massacre
Texas school districts have begun distribution of DNA kits to parents after GOP Governor Greg Abbott signed a law mandating they be made available in the wake of the horrific mass shooting at the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, where 19 students and two teachers were slaughtered in May.
Pro-life means they help you ID the bodies.Seems about right
'Macabre': Texas schools send out DNA kits after Greg Abbott signed law following Uvalde massacre
Texas school districts have begun distribution of DNA kits to parents after GOP Governor Greg Abbott signed a law mandating they be made available in the wake of the horrific mass shooting at the Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, where 19 students and two teachers were slaughtered in May.
To me it sounds like the boss to a side quest in a Yakuza game.
" Clean Elections USA is recruiting volunteers to stand watch over ballot drop boxes with phone cameras, raising concerns over voter intimidation " sounds like the worst sort of voter intimidation to me. /s As opposed to standing at the entrance of a polling place brandishing a billy club and shouting racial epithets which is definitely not voter intimidation according to the Obama admin DOJ, though I suspect we'd get a very different response if a couple of Proud Boys did the same.
You.... genuinely don't think that sounds like intimidation? I'd be fucking intimidated if some "volunteer" asshole was filming me put the vote in the box with his phone. I'd be thinking he and his mates were going to bump into me later in the day if I didn't vote the way he wanted.
On a scale where the NBPP case was definitely not voter intimidation, to the point that it was dropped with no real repercussions without the accused even bothering to attend the hearing? On that scale, no it's obviously not.
That said, how does said volunteer asshole filming you know how you voted? At best said asshole knows *that* you voted. At worst, he's seen you dump an armload of ballots in the box and thinks you are violating ballot harvesting rules.
I don't know if you're aware but this is a part of a discussion with Tstorm about having EMPATHY for people. I find it very amusing
Tstorm. You might be aware that there are a bunch of US citizens who think that evolution is wrong. Even a scientific approach that is sgainst God. They would love to ban any teachings of evolution at school.
There is a reason why schools don't listen to this. You cry and gnash your teeth about it, screaming how its parental choice of whatever. But schools shouldn't bend that far to parent wants/needs. Do home schooling if you are so offended by books in the library.
There are 50 million kids in America. A few parents getting offended at what they see is a bad book for high schoolers is ridiculous. Ask for age restrictions or do home schooling so the other 49.5 million people don't have follow your beliefs
There is a reason why schools don't listen to this. You cry and gnash your teeth about it, screaming how its parental choice of whatever. But schools shouldn't bend that far to parent wants/needs. Do home schooling if you are so offended by books in the library.
There are 50 million kids in America. A few parents getting offended at what they see is a bad book for high schoolers is ridiculous. Ask for age restrictions or do home schooling so the other 49.5 million people don't have follow your beliefs
Why are we using this scale? Why are we just comparing it to another form of voter intimidation, and saying that because A is worse, B is therefore fine?
If he's filming, he's hoping to get a peek of something. That would 100% be my assumption. It's not exactly difficult to catch a glimpse of a piece of paper with a thick mark on it, particularly if you have footage to go over.