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CriticalGaming

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Someone made an interesting comment regarding repetition-
Andres Riquelme 17 hours ago

Repetition is good to really hammer down the underlying rules of the world:

-Memory stones are held in mage towers, and are locked with a magic riddle.

-Catacombs have ashes in the tree burial chamber, that is locked by the tree themed door, locked with a lever somewhere in the catacombs.

-Ruins have a hidden basement somewhere.

-Churches have sites of grace, sacred tears, and a talk with melina.

-Killing giant dragons and consuming their hearts give you their breaths.

-Evergoals, giant stone circles have powerful beings trapped inside.

-The moving mausoleums are stopped by destroying the souls trapped in the spiritual rocks.

-Deathbirds and Night cavalries only appear at night.

-Divine towers unlocks the powers of great runes.

-Minor erdtrees have tree avatars that hold crystals for your potions.

-Golden trees have golden seeds below them.

-Mining caves have smithing stones to look for in the walls. And caves are literally all over the place, both geographically, and thematically, when you enter a cave, you cannot predict what the heck you're getting into, and even sometimes, don't even know where you will end up.

The problem with repitition is that it gives you a sense of "i've seen this before", even if it isn't exactly the same. I'd say the real problem has nothing to do with content reuse or anything like that. Instead, the problem was that they failed (mostly) to capitalize on the best thing you can do once you create a pattern: BREAK IT. Break it hard leave them stumbled on the floor trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

Some examples:
(They do this one!) A basement ruin that has the entrance hidden with an illusion. But they could have also easily done that it doesn't lead to a basement, and instead to a cave, catacomb, whatever!

(They do this one!) A church that has enemies instead of a place to rest. Maybe an evergoal brings you to an unfamiliar place, or its a trap, or is a big skirmish instead of a boss battle. They could have done literally anything else and it would have surprised the players.

One of the divine towers could have a surprise boss battle in order to get the rune.

One of the rotting or fallen minor erdtrees could have an already dead boss, and you'll have to find the crystal hidden somewhere, or kill whatever killed the avatar. Because the pattern isn't broken enough times, or not at all, means that you don't ever expect anything different each time you find something familiar, and indeed it is.

But make enough "exceptions" to the rule, and suddenly when you enter a catacomb, you won't know if its just a "pull lever-> find door -> kill boss -> leave" catacomb, or a secret alternative path to reach the deeproot basin, a teleporting trap to the other side of the world, a ton of fake levers needing to find the right one, a huge riddle that needs to be solved instead of a lever, or even just plainly finding an npc instead of a boss at the end of the dungeon.

If they threw those curve balls, one at a limgrave catacomb, one at a caelid catacomb, and two in liurnia, when you enter a catacomb at the altus plateau, you would still feel like although it could be a normal ass catacomb, it also could be something you've never seen before... and that keeps the feeling of discovery to the very end!

Curious to hear what @CriticalGaming thinks of this :)
Lore reasons for repetition dont make the repetition acceptable. Especially in a game like ER where a lot of players wont piece together the lore reasons to why shit is the way it is. The fact remains that the player is doing the same areas with the same enemies and same puzzles and even same bosses everytime.

The post is correct in that there are a lot of things they COULD have done to help make it better but quite simply you could remove 30% of Elden Ring and it would be a better experience overall.

What bothers me is that ER gets praise for the exact shit that people give Ubisoft crap for. And people justify it because of the ER combat but the bottom line is ER has fucked up the Souls combat that most people love too. ER is a game that tried to be everything all at once and when you try and expand to include too many different audiences, you make something that falls short to all of them as well.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Lore reasons for repetition dont make the repetition acceptable. Especially in a game like ER where a lot of players wont piece together the lore reasons to why shit is the way it is. The fact remains that the player is doing the same areas with the same enemies and same puzzles and even same bosses everytime.

The post is correct in that there are a lot of things they COULD have done to help make it better but quite simply you could remove 30% of Elden Ring and it would be a better experience overall.

What bothers me is that ER gets praise for the exact shit that people give Ubisoft crap for. And people justify it because of the ER combat but the bottom line is ER has fucked up the Souls combat that most people love too. ER is a game that tried to be everything all at once and when you try and expand to include too many different audiences, you make something that falls short to all of them as well.
Fair enough, but explain why an open world like what’s typically found in an Ubisoft game (or even TW3 which I’ve been playing here and there for like, five years now) feels to me like a stressful chore to get through, whereas in ER the hours seemed (for the most part) to melt away. It’s all a matter of perspective and everyone having different tastes/expectations I guess.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Fair enough, but explain why an open world like what’s typically found in an Ubisoft game (or even TW3 which I’ve been playing here and there for like, five years now) feels to me like a stressful chore to get through, whereas in ER the hours seemed (for the most part) to melt away. It’s all a matter of perspective and everyone having different tastes/expectations I guess.
It is probably a favor of a couple of things. The primary one being you are enjoying the combat loop, so an excuse to go do more of that is fine even if you are fighting the same stuff. There is a mentality in that where you might even enjoy fighting the same things a lot because it allows you to get really good at fighting that specific creature.

I think the second reason is that ubisoft and TW3 show you everything on the map right away (for the most part) so you might feel overwhelmed by all the stuff and even annoyed because its all the same. With ER you dont see shit until you discover it first, so you don have a specific goal in mind when you do things. You dont have a checklist of shit to do so you just do what you encounter and it doesnt feel like a chore.

Basically the core difference is that you dont know what you're missing in ER whereas in other games you can clearly see everything you are skipping.

So the biggest difference is strictly perception of how goals are presented.
 
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BrawlMan

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It is probably a favor of a couple of things. The primary one being you are enjoying the combat loop, so an excuse to go do more of that is fine even if you are fighting the same stuff. There is a mentality in that where you might even enjoy fighting the same things a lot because it allows you to get really good at fighting that specific creature.

I think the second reason is that ubisoft and TW3 show you everything on the map right away (for the most part) so you might feel overwhelmed by all the stuff and even annoyed because its all the same. With ER you dont see shit until you discover it first, so you don have a specific goal in mind when you do things. You dont have a checklist of shit to do so you just do what you encounter and it doesnt feel like a chore.

Basically the core difference is that you dont know what you're missing in ER whereas in other games you can clearly see everything you are skipping.

So the biggest difference is strictly perception of how goals are presented.
You have your points, but From Software still bothers to try. I can't say the same for Ubisoft, and CD Projekt Red is up in the air right now. I say this as someone that is not a Souls fan.
 
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Gaming journalism, reviewing, and responses and reactions are a huge conundrum in this industry. Luke has some points, but they're still moments of hypocrisy either coming from certain reviewers, to publishers themselves, or the gamers themselves. That part where he mentioned Sony didn't have a problem with people being honest with their reviews. I'm sure that is true for this game, but Sony did not send Yahtzee and the escapists review copy, because they were scared of what he might say or be offensive. Which is weird, cuz they didn't have a problem before with all the other first party Sony tiles back on the PS4 and PS3. What made the new Ratchet And Clank so special? That still doesn't change the fact, that there had been plenty of moments of reviewers either over praising a title or being harsher on the title than they should, because they're getting advertising on the actual site for the game they're reviewing, or they just don't want to look bad in front of whoever. Then you have certain personal YouTubers that are being overly nice on a game, or defending bad game design, only to change their mind a month or two later hoping everyone forgets. Even Max is guilty of this. Remember how he and everyone else saying what the first Titanfall, that there's no reason to go back to Call of Duty. Most YouTubers and streamers played for about 3 to 6 months and quickly abandoned it. The same thing happened with Marvel's Avengers. Max gave the game a "7 out of 10", and claim that it wasn't that bad. Only for almost a month of pass by, and he quickly changes his opinion in trash is it. He still get some positive aspects, but it was pretty obvious he was never going to play the game again. Which makes me wonder why didn't he just say that in the first place? I know he tries to come off as a nice fair guy, but there's nothing wrong with being harsh and critical. You had no problem doing that the Capcom. You're afraid Square Enix wasn't giving you a review code of the next Final Fantasy?

Death and unfortunately, rape threats, are nothing new to the industry and they should be called out on it when it happens just because of review scores or criticisms and problems with said games. Yet it's a cycle that feeds into itself, because most of those big publishers will do nothing to protect those that are in their corner unless they're super high up. Even their voice actors are not safe. I once again bring up Sony when they really didn't do much to to help the voice actor who played as Abby. There's a whole lot of be better that can be spread around.

Also Luke, I don't know what's so hard to get about people enjoying Sonit games. I get you're not a fan, and I'm happy that you're more than willing to let people be happy with the products they get, but that's not that hard to understand. People like running through levels super fast or doing stylish speed runs. This has always been a part of Sonic's core gameplay for 30 years.
 
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Death and unfortunately, rape threats, are nothing new to the industry and they should be called out on it when it happens just because of review scores or criticisms and problems with said games. Yet it's a cycle that feeds into itself, because most of those big publishers will do nothing to protect those that are in their corner unless they're super high up. Even their voice actors are not safe. I once again bring up Sony when they really didn't do much to to help the voice actor who played as Abby. There's a whole lot of be better that can be spread around.
Yeah, the threats and harassment against the people who work on these things is just fucking disgusting and I really do hate to see GaMeRs doing such shit(I mean anyone but still). I have no urge to play The Last of Us 2 for a number of reasons but nobody deserves that regardless of how I feel about the game. Fuck, I wouldn't approve of David Cage getting that treatment and I feel like he's a creepy hack.
 
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The major problem gaming has is that a huge contingent of "The GamersTM" are insecure, immature fanboys who feel the need to latch onto a brand for a feeling of identity and belonging, and then react viciously to anything construed as an attack on that identity. (Sports has the same problem.) And the only way we could ever possibly stop them is to attack them just as viciously until they knock it off- which would, of course, make us the problem.

Well, unless we discover a way to punch people in the face over the Internet.
 

CriticalGaming

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I think the hard part in terms of games journalism is that too many people in this sector of the business dont fucking like games or give a shit about the industry in anyway. A lot of reviews and articles read like they are from people who failed at getting journalism jobs that they dreamed of. Like Frank from Dead Rising, they dream of covering wars.

So instead you get reviews and articles and game discussion that makes people who are really passionate about the hobby angry. It is funny how games journalism can make dumbass mistakes and when you call them out on it, somehow YOU become the badguy.

Like everyone gave Frosk shit on G4 for not knowing what games were releasing for what platform. And that is a bad look for a company trying to reboot an audience of gamers. When trying to bring new life and expecting people to watch your show, then dumbass mistakes like that are inexcusable especially when instead of apologizing Frosk called the audience sexist and whatever.

The same goes for Kotaku's dumbass articles and any number of other websites guilty of the same thing.

Ultimately what happens is you end up with an audience that cant trust you. They cant trust your reporting, your opinion pieces, and worst they can trust your reviews.

That is before we even discuss the fact that publishers will blacklist review sites from early copies for negative reviews. This means the publisher doesnt NEED to pay for positive reviews they just have to stop giving early codes to promote day 1 or early clicks.

And they certainly have power over youtubers who's ad revnue and traffic could depend on those early reviews. This means you have an industry that basically has the news cycle by the balls on top of generally being incompetent.
 

BrawlMan

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The RE1 live-action actors (not the same people who voiced the characters in-game) play RE1 for the first time. This was uploaded in June of this year.

 

hanselthecaretaker

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It's sickening what iD Software and Bethesda tried to do shredding any accountability. I do not regret trading in my copy in for something else.
Still haven’t played it, but it’s in my Steam library. Sounds like most people think the 2016 game is better anyways.
 
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Still haven’t played it, but it’s in my Steam library. Sounds like most people think the 2016 game is better anyways.
Doom 4 I found so much better and tightly paced. That explains why so many of the mechanics feel rushed, and the platforming is unintuitive in Eternal. I was semi aware of the crunch at the time, but that all proves why it feels so disjointed in the beginning.
 
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