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BrawlMan

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Fair enough, but it's not influenced following films (beyond using CGI and 3D) the way Star Wars or the Matrix has. Nobody seems to be complaining that all the films we get are trying to be Avatar, or the X scenes are ripping off the X scenes in Avatar
That's because even when many of these movies were taking some influence in from Avatar, most were doing their own thing or putting in their own spin or style with the CG.

the way some complain that movies will have John Wick fight scenes
Before that, it was people complaining about everyone trying to copy The Bourne Identity or 300 slow-mo, zoom-in-zoom-out fights. John Wick and it's clones are now the new target and cool to hate on. As much as I am done with that franchise, those films at least bother to keep the camera still and clearly see what's going on.
 

Old_Hunter_77

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Fair enough, but it's not influenced following films (beyond using CGI and 3D) the way Star Wars or the Matrix has. Nobody seems to be complaining that all the films we get are trying to be Avatar, or the X scenes are ripping off the X scenes in Avatar (the way some complain that movies will have John Wick fight scenes)
Ok, sure.
I guess I've never heard this "cultural impact" thing about any other movie, most of which aren't Star Wars or the Matrix. I mean, those are exceptions. It's like there's this retroactive requirement about Avatar because, why, it made a lot of money? Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable? So a bunch of critics or internet denizens decided that Avatar should have had quotable lines or been directly copied or merchandised harder and then get to laugh at this property they invented. It's weird.
 
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Casual Shinji

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I would ask what is the cultural impact of Back to the Future, other than it being referenced by gen-xers like me? I don't see any movies ripping it off, or even very many quotable lines even though the movie is largely comedic.
Well, the fact that the DeLorean has become synonymous with the movie, not to mention it being Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd's most iconic roles to this day, and making Robert Zemeckis' carreer, gives it what I'd say significant cultural impact. Heck, name me a more iconic bully than Biff.

The unfortunate thing about Avatar is that all its impact was tied to technological advancement, and for as long as it was top dog in that field it stayed relevant. But as soon as the next big advancement came along that relevancy fell, like when Gravity got released - another big impressive movie that faded very, very quickly. Who knows, maybe it'll see a resurgence in pop culture in a decade from now, like Starship Troopers or The Big Lebowski. Probably not, but you never know - People have been trying to redeem the Star Wars prequels and The Matrix sequels in recent years, too.
 
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BrawlMan

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It's like there's this retroactive requirement about Avatar because, why, it made a lot of money? Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable? So a bunch of critics or internet denizens decided that Avatar should have had quotable lines or been directly copied or merchandised harder and then get to laugh at this property they invented. It's weird.
It's nothing more than a group of idiots seeking validations for the things they like and enjoy. They need people to praise them for liking a (bad) product, even though not everyone in the entire world shares the same views. Your best bet is just to ignore the idiots and move on.

Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable?
He is more than a bit insufferable. Dude really liked smelling his farts after Titanic. The only good thing that came from him recently, was when he passed his script of Battle Angel to Robert Rodriguez.
 
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Dalisclock

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Ok, sure.
I guess I've never heard this "cultural impact" thing about any other movie, most of which aren't Star Wars or the Matrix. I mean, those are exceptions. It's like there's this retroactive requirement about Avatar because, why, it made a lot of money? Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable? So a bunch of critics or internet denizens decided that Avatar should have had quotable lines or been directly copied or merchandised harder and then get to laugh at this property they invented. It's weird.
I'm not sure anyone really decides. I think it either clicks with the general moviewatching population(or beyond that) or it doesn't and the ones we remember are the ones that did. Like how the Geiger Penishead Aliens from ALIEN/ALIENS became a cultural touchstone for Scary-looking feral Spacemonsters, no doubt a lot due to their iconic design but also because ALIEN/ALIENS are considered horror/Scifi classics while so many other sci-fi/horror movies just vanished from the public consciousness.

I mean, why do we rememebr Shakespeare 500 years later? There were plenty of plays being performed during the era, writing and printing were both prevelent in Europe at the time so we know these other plays existed and even have copies of them. For whatever reason Shakespeare became THE thing that got lodged into the cultural conciousness long before people decided they were classic and made you read them in English class.
 
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BrawlMan

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I'm not sure anyone really decides. I think it either clicks with the general moviewatching population(or beyond that) or it doesn't and the ones we remember are the ones that did. Like how the Geiger Penishead Aliens from ALIEN/ALIENS became a cultural touchstone for Scary-looking feral Spacemonsters, no doubt a lot due to their iconic design but also because ALIEN/ALIENS are considered horror/Scifi classics while so many other sci-fi/horror movies just vanished from the public consciousness.

I mean, why do we rememebr Shakespeare 500 years later? There were plenty of plays being performed during the era, writing and printing were both prevelent in Europe at the time so we know these other plays existed and even have copies of them. For whatever reason Shakespeare became THE thing that got lodged into the cultural conciousness long before people decided they were classic and made you read them in English class.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Wait, Escape Plan is a remake? I only know the one with Stallone and Arnold. Funny story. Face/Off was originally supposed to have both as the main leads. Somewhere in a different universe, this happened, and I am somewhat sad none of us were there to witness them play each other.
I’ve never heard of it being a remake of something and couldn’t find anything older with the same title.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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I'm not sure anyone really decides. I think it either clicks with the general moviewatching population(or beyond that) or it doesn't and the ones we remember are the ones that did. Like how the Geiger Penishead Aliens from ALIEN/ALIENS became a cultural touchstone for Scary-looking feral Spacemonsters, no doubt a lot due to their iconic design but also because ALIEN/ALIENS are considered horror/Scifi classics while so many other sci-fi/horror movies just vanished from the public consciousness.

I mean, why do we rememebr Shakespeare 500 years later? There were plenty of plays being performed during the era, writing and printing were both prevelent in Europe at the time so we know these other plays existed and even have copies of them. For whatever reason Shakespeare became THE thing that got lodged into the cultural conciousness long before people decided they were classic and made you read them in English class.
IIRC Shakespeare had like a 35,000 word vocabulary or something, which was probably quite a bit above average especially back then I’m guessing. So maybe people were like “whoa, this guy talks different” and it stuck out more.

Doth is thine wildeth guesseth.
 
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IIRC Shakespeare had like a 35,000 word vocabulary or something, which was probably quite a bit above average especially back then I’m guessing. So maybe people were like “whoa, this guy talks different” and it stuck out more.

Doth is thine wildeth guesseth.
Not being an expert on Shakespeare or particularly into his plays/sonnets, sure why not? Someone who appreciates the bard can probably enlighten us if they so choose.
 

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I'm going to regret this, but okay:

other then unobtainium was starship fuel, Earth was fucked and they didn't bother to mention that in the film itself because apparently people are too stupid to understand that concept or it would make the humans seem less evil or something.
-Unobtanium isn't starship fuel itself, it's a vital component of matter/anti-matter reactors that power ISVs (and I think power stations on Earth).

-Earth's state is conveyed in the film. Even if you don't watch the director's cut, Earth's poor environmental state is stated explicitly, and that life generally sucks is conveyed from Jake's opening monologue.

but Avatar wasn't exactly a flop. It did well. It made a ton of money...and for a movie that made so much money it's not talked about much for whatever reason.
Except Avatar is talked about, even if it's always to say "it's not talked about."

Everyone apparently remembers Avatar well enough to say that no-one remembers it. 0_0

Anyway, I just don't see that kind of nonsense to that degree from millennials (who were teenagers and young adults- primary opening weekend movie audiences)- as being that obnoxious about this stuff.
Even as a millennial, trust me, millennials are as precious about their toys as everyone else.

How many movies are "influenced by"/"ripping off" Avatar? Compared to movies ripping off, say, Star Wars or The Matrix.
How many movies have actually ripped off Star Wars and Matrix though? Bearing in mind that Star Wars was already a synthesis of pre-existing tropes, and The Matrix leans heavily on tropes of the cyberpunk genre.

All three IPs are guilty of recycling old tropes, the fact that Star Wars and Matrix had more cultural impact doesn't change this.

Are there any quotable lines or anything?
...is that a rhetorical question, or do you want me to start? :p

Dialogue is not Avatar's strong suit so the only quotable thing is that term unobtainium, in mockery.
You...do realize that unobtanium is a real-world term, right? And that the unobtanium of the film fits the definition?

Okay, technically it's not unobtainable, but considering that unobtanium is a super-conductor at room temperature, it fits the bill. The term was used in the film to reflect the real-world background.

Ok, sure.
I guess I've never heard this "cultural impact" thing about any other movie, most of which aren't Star Wars or the Matrix. I mean, those are exceptions. It's like there's this retroactive requirement about Avatar because, why, it made a lot of money? Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable? So a bunch of critics or internet denizens decided that Avatar should have had quotable lines or been directly copied or merchandised harder and then get to laugh at this property they invented. It's weird.
Sorry, what argument is actually being made? The more common argument is that Avatar had no cultural impact, despite clearly having enough cultural impact for everyone to remember it instantly, and say it had no impact.

There's plenty of films I can say had no cultural impact, but usually the mention of said films would be "wait, what?"

He is more than a bit insufferable. Dude really liked smelling his farts after Titanic. The only good thing that came from him recently, was when he passed his script of Battle Angel to Robert Rodriguez.
Wait, what?

I can understand someone liking Alita, but the screenplay was terrible. It's not even really a movie, just a collection of short stories strung together.

(Come to think of it, every criticism I see about Avatar is one I'd apply to Alita, but meh.)

Probably not, but you never know - People have been trying to redeem the Star Wars prequels and The Matrix sequels in recent years, too.
I think the "redeeming" of the prequels goes back way further than just the last few years - at least as far back as the Clone Wars series.
 
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BrawlMan

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Wait, what?
I know what I said.

but the screenplay was terrible.
Screenplay was fine. Not perfect, but more than capable of getting the job done.

It's not even really a movie, just a collection of short stories strung together.
Bullshit. You were watching a completely different movie then. End of discussion.

(Come to think of it, every criticism I see about Avatar is one I'd apply to Alita, but meh.)
Difference is Battle Angel Alita didn't have a bug up its ass.
 

Dalisclock

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People have been trying to redeem the Star Wars prequels and The Matrix sequels in recent years, too.
I'll argue that while the movies themselves haven't changed, the SW prequels look better when taken in tandem with the Clone Wars series that came after. I hate to say that the series retroactively rehabilitied the prequels but they do fill in a lot of the character development and world building the movies themselves lacked. EP2 works much better as the beginning of the Clone Wars and EP3 as the end with the series in the gap between then as just those two movies on their own(I'm not touching EP1. You could lose that movie and nothing of consequence would be missing).

Notably, showing the Republic slowly slipping into the Empire over time, Palpatine cozying up to Anakin and subtly turning him against the Jedi, and most importantly, showing Anakin has being overconfident and willing to take shortcuts to get what he wants and Palpatine playing into that. Which works a hell of a lot better then "The Jedi were mean to me. Time to murder some children!"
 
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-Unobtanium isn't starship fuel itself, it's a vital component of matter/anti-matter reactors that power ISVs (and I think power stations on Earth).

-Earth's state is conveyed in the film. Even if you don't watch the director's cut, Earth's poor environmental state is stated explicitly, and that life generally sucks is conveyed from Jake's opening monologue.
Maybe I really don't remember it at all because I while I swear the only thing they mention about the Unobtaimum is that it's worth a ton of money, I don't think they mention it's use in the theater version.

You might be totally right about the decrepit state of earth being more explicit in the theatrical cut. I honestly don't remember.

Except Avatar is talked about, even if it's always to say "it's not talked about."

Everyone apparently remembers Avatar well enough to say that no-one remembers it. 0_0
It's not part of the cultural lexicon like SW is though and the reason we're talking about it now is the sequels that have been in the works for like a decade or so. Depending on what Avatar 2/3/4(is Cameron still planning on doing 3 sequels?) bring to the table or even if it gets that far, maybe it'll get new legs or maybe everyone will have forgotten about it again in a year.
 
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Gordon_4

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I'll argue that while the movies themselves haven't changed, the SW prequels look better when taken in tandem with the Clone Wars series that came after. I hate to say that the series retroactively rehabilitied the prequels but they do fill in a lot of the character development and world building the movies themselves lacked. EP2 works much better as the beginning of the Clone Wars and EP3 as the end with the series in the gap between then as just those two movies on their own(I'm not touching EP1. You could lose that movie and nothing of consequence would be missing).

Notably, showing the Republic slowly slipping into the Empire over time, Palpatine cozying up to Anakin and subtly turning him against the Jedi, and most importantly, showing Anakin has being overconfident and willing to take shortcuts to get what he wants and Palpatine playing into that. Which works a hell of a lot better then "The Jedi were mean to me. Time to murder some children!"
After watching Kenobi I am convinced that Phantom Menace would have been better served by having teenager Anakin in it rather than six year old.

Hayden still owes Matt Lanter a fruit basket or ten though.
 

Gordon_4

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Maybe I really don't remember it at all because I while I swear the only thing they mention about the Unobtaimum is that it's worth a ton of money, I don't think they mention it's use in the theater version.

You might be totally right about the decrepit state of earth being more explicit in the theatrical cut. I honestly don't remember.



It's not part of the cultural lexicon like SW is though and the reason we're talking about it now is the sequels that have been in the works for like a decade or so. Depending on what Avatar 2/3/4(is Cameron still planning on doing 3 sequels?) bring to the table or even if it gets that far, maybe it'll get new legs or maybe everyone will have forgotten about it again in a year.
Is that so terrible though? Like Avatar is a good movie; it’s got fun characters who are broad and arch enough that they can appeal to almost anyone, a story that’s easy enough to follow and translate, and great spectacle. But does that fact that it doesn’t stick around to outstay it’s welcome so bad? It came, we saw, it conquered, and then we move on. I liked it in 2009 and I liked it still when I watched it a few years ago and I suspect I’ll like it again when I watch it tonight to
 
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Hawki

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Maybe I really don't remember it at all because I while I swear the only thing they mention about the Unobtaimum is that it's worth a ton of money, I don't think they mention it's use in the theater version.

You might be totally right about the decrepit state of earth being more explicit in the theatrical cut. I honestly don't remember.
Unobtanium's use isn't mentioned in the film itself, but with Earth, even in the theatrical cut, its poor state is conveyed, as in:

-In the flashback scenes, there's a sense of grunge and lack of humanity (how quickly Tom's body is incinerated, how quickly the g-men pitch Jake taking his place)

-Jake's monologue ("they can fix the spine, if you've got the money. But not in this economy. Not on vet benefits.")

-Jake's speech to Eywa ("...look at the world [Earth] we come from. There's no green there. They [humans] killed their mother.")

-End monologue ("The aliens [humans] went back to their dying world.")

There's other hints as well (for instance, consider that the first shot we see is of Pandoran rainforest, which is what Jake dreamed of while injured, rather than Earth rainforest, which cuts to the sterile interior of the Venture Star), but the above are the most explicit examples.

It's not part of the cultural lexicon like SW is though and the reason we're talking about it now is the sequels that have been in the works for like a decade or so. Depending on what Avatar 2/3/4(is Cameron still planning on doing 3 sequels?) bring to the table or even if it gets that far, maybe it'll get new legs or maybe everyone will have forgotten about it again in a year.
I agree it's not part of the cultural lexicon, but that's a different claim to not being talked about. I say "Avatar," people will generally remember it, even if they don't quote it.

As for sequels, specifically, there's Avatar 2-5, but we're only guaranteed 2/3; 4/5 will depend on how the others do.
 
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Is that so terrible though? Like Avatar is a good movie; it’s got fun characters who are broad and arch enough that they can appeal to almost anyone, a story that’s easy enough to follow and translate, and great spectacle. But does that fact that it doesn’t stick around to outstay it’s welcome so bad? It came, we saw, it conquered, and then we move on. I liked it in 2009 and I liked it still when I watched it a few years ago and I suspect I’ll like it again when I watch it tonight to
I'm not saying it's bad. I didn't think I was trying to say that. I liked it to some extent but it hasn't stuck around in like other movies have. That's all I was really trying to say.
 
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After watching Kenobi I am convinced that Phantom Menace would have been better served by having teenager Anakin in it rather than six year old.

Hayden still owes Matt Lanter a fruit basket or ten though.
I'm 100% with you there. Honestly, if I had the power of god to go back and fix the prequel trilogy, the first step would have been to have TPM be set at the beginning of the Clone wars or very near it and not the adventures of little Orphan Annie on Naboo and that one fucking desert planet we keep coming back to(Dune? I think it's called Dune). And after that.....I haven't thought that far ahead, but better writing would be high on the list...and possibly locking George Lucas in his trailer for the duration of the process so he can't....do whatever it is he does. (We'll slip some bread under the door, he'll be fine)
 
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Thaluikhain

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Ok, sure.
I guess I've never heard this "cultural impact" thing about any other movie, most of which aren't Star Wars or the Matrix. I mean, those are exceptions. It's like there's this retroactive requirement about Avatar because, why, it made a lot of money? Because James Cameron can be a bit insufferable? So a bunch of critics or internet denizens decided that Avatar should have had quotable lines or been directly copied or merchandised harder and then get to laugh at this property they invented. It's weird.
Ah, ok. If the question is "does Avatar have a big cultural impact?", I'd say no. Yes, we are talking about it, because people who happen to have cultural impact for other works are talking about it again, in relation to a sequel. We weren't talking about it a year or two ago when they weren't.

But if the questions is "does Avatar need to have a big cultural impact?", I'd also say no to that. Pretty sure it was just a big money making exercise, some pretence of being more than that perhaps, but only a pretence. Just another woefully bad film with a big budget that raked in the mega-bucks.