Funny events in anti-woke world

tstorm823

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Now I am curious: what do you consider innately virtuous? What do you consider worthy ends? You say that liberty and justice are only to be treated as means to worthy ends; can't a strict adherence to any supposed virtue be twisted into something unwanted?

On the top of my head: you mention peace and prosperity as innately virtuous; wouldn't Zelenskyy just surrendering to Putin ensure that a whole lot of Ukrainian infrastructure and lives not be destroyed; it would also mean that peace would be achieved.
Even accepting the premise that peace would be achieved that way, there's a bunch of bad things that come with that decision. If Zelenskyy surrendering changed literally nothing but stopping the war and everything else remained the same, it would be the correct thing to do. But everything else wouldn't remain the same, it would come with exploitation and subjugation. It's not really peace without security from that sort of behavior.

If I might reference the US constitution, between the references to justice and liberty are providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare, which are ways of saying peace and prosperity. If we break down promoting the general welfare, and I may reference the Christian works of mercy, it's things like feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless... these are things worth pursuing in and of themselves. When people who do try and pursue justice and equality look for measures of success, those are the types of things used to measure anyway. So why are we wasting effort on the abstract concept of equality , a concept that leads as much to tearing people down as lifting people up, when what we really want is lifting people up? Why would we dwell on justice, on giving people what they deserve, in cases where justice does not benefit society as a whole?
 

tstorm823

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There an Alaska state representative who had question about the cost to society from child abuse

A estimates hear thought the total cost from an individual child abuse is about $1.5M. As far as I understand, that's to the individual and wider society

Then Eastman stands up and says that a child dying from child abuse would be economically beneficial to society as the government doesn't have to pay for them to live


Which begs the question, how much money actually goes to each individual child by the Alaskan government? Because, if it's not close to $1.5M, I can't imagine why you'd bring this up

Just note: This is the same PRO-LIFE guy who was trying to ban abortions in medical emergencies. I think he said something like, 'some women just get pregnant to have abortions'

Edit: Try to find a video of this. The moderator flabbergastly states, 'Would you say that again?' With a tone of 'I can not believe someone is saying this'. It's delightful
He wasn't arguing in favor of children dying. He posited a hypothetical cost savings from a child dying to instigate a reaction, he wanted the person answering the question to say "there's no cost savings that would justify a child dying", so that he could say he agrees with that, rather than continue to talk about child abuse in economic terms, and then potentially segue to the topic of abortion where people actually do argue in favor of the economic benefits of abortion.

Eastman said: "I was pleased to hear ACT advocating against child abuse, but a child's value comes not from future productivity, but from the fact that every child is made in the image of God."

Your own source tells you this.
 

Silvanus

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Even accepting the premise that peace would be achieved that way, there's a bunch of bad things that come with that decision. If Zelenskyy surrendering changed literally nothing but stopping the war and everything else remained the same, it would be the correct thing to do. But everything else wouldn't remain the same, it would come with exploitation and subjugation. It's not really peace without security from that sort of behavior.

If I might reference the US constitution, between the references to justice and liberty are providing for the common defense and promoting the general welfare, which are ways of saying peace and prosperity. If we break down promoting the general welfare, and I may reference the Christian works of mercy, it's things like feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless... these are things worth pursuing in and of themselves. When people who do try and pursue justice and equality look for measures of success, those are the types of things used to measure anyway. So why are we wasting effort on the abstract concept of equality , a concept that leads as much to tearing people down as lifting people up, when what we really want is lifting people up? Why would we dwell on justice, on giving people what they deserve, in cases where justice does not benefit society as a whole?
This is just to say that peace, if pursued unilaterally or to the exclusion of all else, can have negative effects.

Which is essentially the same as the argument you employed to say equality, justice and liberty weren't virtues. They can end up badly... if pursued in an extreme way that excludes all else.

FWIW, I don't believe there's such a thing as an "innate" virtue. All of these things are virtues by benefit of how they can impact living things. But none of them do so universally or uniformly, and all of them rely on other elements outside themselves.
 

Chimpzy

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I'm surprised Peterson dared to say ''up yours woke moralists'' again after pretty much the entire internet mocked him for it
Nah, probably recites that to himself in front of the mirror every morning by now. May or may not do so to Goodbye Horses.
 

XsjadoBlaydette

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Bannon not paying the ppl he probably should be paying.


After initially scrambling to counter a Daily Beast story that he wasn’t paying his lawyers, the notorious right-wing media personality Steve Bannon has been sued for owing a single New York attorney a whopping $480,487.

On Friday, the Manhattan firm of Davidoff Hutcher & Citron took the rare step of suing its former client over unpaid bills for a mountain of work a lawyer did defending him for two years against Congress, the feds, and a local district attorney.

On top of the half million dollars he allegedly owes, the firm is now asking that a New York judge force Bannon to pay interest—plus the cost of the lawyer who filed this lawsuit.

The firm says it “performed various legal services for [Bannon] in a competent and professional manner” and deserves to get paid for it.
Earlier this month, The Daily Beast revealed that Bannon stiffed two lawyers who ran up huge legal bills while defending him at a 2022 trial over the right-winger’s refusal to testify before the House Jan. 6 Committee. Those attorneys, Robert Costello of New York and M. Evan Corcoran of Baltimore, declined to comment. It was Costello’s firm that sued Bannon last week. It’s unclear if Corcoran’s firm will take similar action.

Bannon’s miserly attitude toward his own legal team baffled the three sources who spoke to The Daily Beast about the matter on condition of anonymity, all of whom noted that Bannon runs a popular conspiracy-spewing podcast and appears to be backed by Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui. What’s more, Bannon himself is a former Goldman Sachs investment banker, co-founded the right-wing news website Breitbart, and made millions off the sitcom Seinfeld.

According to the lawsuit filed by Costello’s firm, Bannon has only paid $375,000 of his $855,487 legal bill to that one firm.

Bannon owes an untold amount to Corcoran’s firm, Silverman Thompson Slutkin & White, but a source familiar with the situation suggested that the total is less than what’s owed to Costello in New York.

Bannon’s spokesman did not respond to a request for comment. Costello and Corcoran declined to comment.

The reason he owes so much to Costello is because the former federal prosecutor has stuck by Bannon’s side ever since the world started crashing on the far right agitator. Costello first started representing Bannon in Dec. 2020, when the Department of Justice targeted him over a nativist GoFundMe to build a privately funded wall on the U.S.-Mexico border. Bannon was accused of secretly enriching himself with donations to the nonprofit effort, and the feds criminally charged him with money laundering and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. It was Costello who worked on the pardon Bannon ultimately received from former President Donald Trump, which conveniently sidelined the investigation and gave him a clean slate.

Then Costello kept the House Jan. 6 Committee at bay when the congressional panel subpoenaed Bannon to testify about his central role in the so-called “Green Bay Sweep,” a plan developed by MAGA diehards to keep Trump in the White House by overturning the 2020 election. Costello continued to represent Bannon—now alongside fellow lawyer Corcoran—when the DOJ criminally charged him with contempt of Congress over his decision to ignore that subpoena.

The Daily Beast has previously revealed how Costello took on particular risk in that investigation, because the FBI made the controversial decision to secretly seize the lawyer’s communications—a move that potentially crossed an ethical boundary. Special agents also quietly listened in on Costello’s negotiations with DOJ lawyers, turning what is normally an informal dialogue between defense attorneys and prosecutors into an official investigative interview.

That skirmish has largely been swept under the rug, and Bannon was convicted of contempt of Congress. The federal judge who sentenced him held off on sending him to jail pending appeal.
Friday’s lawsuit says Costello’s firm stopped billing Bannon for work last November, though court documents in Bannon’s federal appeal make clear that Costello continues to seek answers over the DOJ’s decision to spy on him.

When The Daily Beast initially broke the news that Bannon hadn’t been paying his lawyers, his representatives initially contested that assertion. A third lawyer on the contempt of Congress trial, David Schoen of Alabama, affirmed that he indeed had been paid.

But as a result, it became clear that Bannon was willing to pay one lawyer while stiffing the rest. Days later, Costello’s firm sued.

The lawsuit is a stain that could frustrate Bannon’s current search to find yet additional lawyers to represent him—this time over a revived version of the “We Build The Wall” investigation. Last September, the Manhattan District Attorney charged him with local crimes for scamming New Yorkers, an attempt to circumvent Trump’s presidential pardon. Schoen and New York lawyer John W. Mitchell represented him in that case, although both suddenly decided to hit the eject button in January, citing a total “communication breakdown.” Justice Juan Merchan ordered them to stay on the case for now, albeit only on paper.

Bannon has until the end of February to find new lawyers.
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I'm surprised Peterson dared to say ''up yours woke moralists'' again after pretty much the entire internet mocked him for it
Initially I thought he's just trying to get a branding catchphrase off the ground. But he looks far too gone these days for such forward planning. Only thing getting off the ground nowadays is whoever's supplying him with drugs.
 
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Ag3ma

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I may reference the Christian works of mercy, it's things like feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless... these are things worth pursuing in and of themselves.
And yet you're a Christian who supports the Republicans...?
 

Baffle

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Initially I thought he's just trying to get a branding catchphrase off the ground.
Christ, can you imagine working with the guy who's got that printed on a mug? Always makes sure it's facing outward and eyeballing for anyone clocking it, but everyone looks straight ahead lest they get drawn into a conversation with the office bore. It goes missing and he blames the cleaner, but the hot girl he likes says she accidentally (deliberately) smashed it and he doesn't mind after all. Everyone wishes they still worked from home and four of them keep an undated resignation letter in their desks.
 

Baffle

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I was slightly alarmed today when having a conversation with a colleague who stated their admiration for Jordan Peterson. I very tactfully detailed some of my reservations about him.
There's no accounting for taste, but I think it's 100% okay to judge people on theirs. Start a whisper campaign against them, it's their own fault.
 
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umatbro

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And do you see these aliens in the room with you right now?
No. Because #TheAlienInvasionWasAnInsideJob

TVTropes said:
Some have claimed that the government is behind most UFO and alien conspiracy theories, using them as a shield for their own black projects. Alternatively, They plan on using widespread belief in aliens to orchestrate a fake "Alien Invasion" using their advanced technology to Take Over the World.
 

Trunkage

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He wasn't arguing in favor of children dying. He posited a hypothetical cost savings from a child dying to instigate a reaction, he wanted the person answering the question to say "there's no cost savings that would justify a child dying", so that he could say he agrees with that, rather than continue to talk about child abuse in economic terms, and then potentially segue to the topic of abortion where people actually do argue in favor of the economic benefits of abortion.

Eastman said: "I was pleased to hear ACT advocating against child abuse, but a child's value comes not from future productivity, but from the fact that every child is made in the image of God."

Your own source tells you this.
Yeah, I know. He's a troll who is trying to make a point but his trolling style completely distract from his argument. A good troll is more like George Carlin than Alex Jones

Also, I can agree that talking about the cost of child abuse is kinda iffy as Eastman pointed out.

Saying that children have value because 'they are made in God's image' is, to me, just as bad. All you have to do to be willing to kill a human is say they are demonic, evil, lost God, not worthy etc. You see this all the time with American Christian and how they are willing to hurt people because they aren't godly enough. (I'll note that this has nothing to do with God, rather how people abuse God's name to hurt others.)

To me, a child has inherent value irrelevant of God. And there is no off switch. Like, the whole point of the estimates committee is to counter those idiots who keep thinking that people should recieve social security or food stamp etc. They keep going on about these people not being worthy and this committee is trying to counter that narrative. Maybe Eastman should target those folks who want to remove social security instead...
 
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Trunkage

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And yet you're a Christian who supports the Republicans...?
I'm pretty sure they would counter with their opinion that churches should be giving alms, not governments. They see it as a Christian thing, and governments should stay out

I would counter that America tried that. It went incredibly poorly with millions dead. I don't think the American government does a good job of looking after its own population. At all. It's still way better than churches
 

tstorm823

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Which is essentially the same as the argument you employed to say equality, justice and liberty weren't virtues. They can end up badly... if pursued in an extreme way that excludes all else.
But it's not just at the exclusion of all else. Justice is the easy one: you can formulate a situation where mercy is preferable to justice. Even if there's no practical difference in outcomes, it can be better to forego justice if the victim prefers mercy.
And yet you're a Christian who supports the Republicans...?
If you think Republican policy is to have people go hungry and die in the streets, you're fully buying into the Democratic propaganda. Republicans want to reform and manage and ideally minimize the need for welfare programs not because of we want the country to be a hellscape of social darwinism, but because abuse and corruption actively take away the ability to keep people fed. You are certainly aware of how frequently communist countries end up starving their populations through "redistribution", why would someone who cares for their constituency pursue that strategy?
Yeah, I know.
Then why did you post lies!?