Funny events in anti-woke world

[McElroy]

snip

Trolling is always cool. Anyway I just think having an argument over these ridiculous things only makes everyone look like a fool in the end. If Gwen is trans then that attribute doesn't map onto reality, but y'know she's not from our world and more importantly she is not a person that exists or has an inner life so ta-da it doesn't have to. Maybe it's not only a world where spider bites give superpowers, but also vaccines make you artistic, tick bites make you gay and bee stings change your gender.

Yes, it is a game at its core, but it does not make Celeste any less valuable at what it set to do.

Which is being a platformer. Indie games and big games alike can have these themes represented, but for the latter it's a deliberate move to reach a demographic of casual gamers who like extended lore with all that progressive representation and the talk around it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Which is being a platformer. Indie games and big games alike can have these themes represented, but for the latter it's a deliberate move to reach a demographic of casual gamers who like extended lore with all that progressive representation and the talk around it.

So? Let'em talk. As long as the game showed people like them exist, and that they belong like anyone else, then I don't see the big issue. A positive influence can lead to many things.

 

[tstorm823]

I'd say the closest thing to evidence that she isn't trans is that if she was it'd mean her father would be fully aware and accepting of his daughter being trans, but still draw a gun on her for coming out as Spider-Woman, not seeing the parallel or trusting his daughter in the same manner as when she came out as trans. Not that this scenario wouldn't be possible, just that it would make his character rather inconsistent... and maybe even more of an asshole.

You don't think the name "Spider-Woman" itself counts as evidence?

 

[Avnger]

You don't think the name "Spider-Woman" itself counts as evidence?

No because a trans woman is a woman. At least have the decency to realize when others are trying to have a good faith discussion and keep your bigoted shit out.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Trolling is always cool. Anyway I just think having an argument over these ridiculous things only makes everyone look like a fool in the end. If Gwen is trans then that attribute doesn't map onto reality, but y'know she's not from our world and more importantly she is not a person that exists or has an inner life so ta-da it doesn't have to. Maybe it's not only a world where spider bites give superpowers, but also vaccines make you artistic, tick bites make you gay and bee stings change your gender.

I've completely lost track of your argument

 

[Cheetodust]

Then you're going to have to bring me up to speed on that, because the only one I can remember from this list is TLoU2 and it involved Abby, with her being accused of being trans by the usual reactionaries.

Oh yeah. The same reactionaries who then continued to insist that Abby was trans despite literally nothing in the text hinting at such because they just wanted to hate on the game so much. That was a weird time. Also similar to the Gwen thing, it literally didn't matter how much text there was to confirm that Ellie was gay people still wouldn't accept Ellie was gay in TLOU part 1. So I actually doubt people would accept that Gwen is trans no matter how much explicit evidence is given.

Is Gwen trans? It wasn't my immediate takeaway but after having the hints explained to my oblivious ass it seems a plausible take. But it's like arguing about the end of Inception and whether or not he was still dreaming, both interpretations are valid because that's how media works, it's open to interpretation. If you need something to be explicitly stated in a text before you're willing to accept it is equally plausible you might be bad at literary analysis. Like subtext is a thing...

Like nowhere in the The Haunting Of Hill House (book,not show)are we told Theodora is gay but if you read it and don't come away with the belief that she is probably at least into girls you probably didn't look to deeply at the text. Nowhere in The Picture of Dorian Gray are we explicitly told that Basil's fascination with Dorian is sexual in nature but I think we can probably safely make that leap when we know that Wilde, at the time of the story's publication, was secretly banging young men. Neither of those are relegated to "head canon" or "fan theory" they are very well accepted as "correct" interpretations of the text.

 

[Cheetodust]

You don't think the name "Spider-Woman" itself counts as evidence?

A) She's never actually called Spiderwoman in the movies as far as I recall.

B) If she is, she either chose that name herself y'know because she's a trans woman so obviously she would call herself a woman. Or people who just figured it was a fem person in the costume called her Spiderwoman because, y'know secret identities. Even transphobes would presumably call her spiderwoman because they wouldn't know whether or not she's trans.

C) If the writers, the ultimate arbiters of whether or not she is called "Spiderwoman", did want to make her trans then it is likely because they accept trans women as women.

So every possible scenario for who calls her Spiderwoman, inside and outside of the text, would mean that a trans woman would be identified as a woman.

So no. This is just a dumb transphobic take because you just wanted to get it out there that you're transphobic or trolling.

 

[Gordon_4]

A) She's never actually called Spiderwoman in the movies as far as I recall.

B) If she is, she either chose that name herself y'know because she's a trans woman so obviously she would call herself a woman. Or people who just figured it was a fem person in the costume called her Spiderwoman because, y'know secret identities. Even transphobes would presumably call her spiderwoman because they wouldn't know whether or not she's trans.

C) If the writers, the ultimate arbiters of whether or not she is called "Spiderwoman", did want to make her trans then it is likely because they accept trans women as women.

So every possible scenario for who calls her Spiderwoman, inside and outside of the text, would mean that a trans woman would be identified as a woman.

So no. This is just a dumb transphobic take because you just wanted to get it out there that you're transphobic or trolling.

That and Spider-Woman is, from memory, Jessica Drew and it’s never been mentioned that Gwen - whom I’ve only ever heard referred to as Spider-Gwen - is using that mantle.

 

[Cheetodust]

That and Spider-Woman is, from memory, Jessica Drew and it’s never been mentioned that Gwen - whom I’ve only ever heard referred to as Spider-Gwen - is using that mantle.

Yes as far as I'm aware. But it is very unlikely that she is called Spider-Gwen in universe.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Without having actually seen the thing in question, isn't it likely that they are doing the usual thing of implying they've got a trans character to get diversity points, without actually saying for sure that they do?

Nah, that's what they did with the trans flag above her door. 'See, we support trans rights - look at the flag. Oh, you didn't see it because we only showed it for a second? Well, it was there, so yay us.'

Oh yeah. The same reactionaries who then continued to insist that Abby was trans despite literally nothing in the text hinting at such because they just wanted to hate on the game so much. That was a weird time. Also similar to the Gwen thing, it literally didn't matter how much text there was to confirm that Ellie was gay people still wouldn't accept Ellie was gay in TLOU part 1. So I actually doubt people would accept that Gwen is trans no matter how much explicit evidence is given.

I think they actually moved on very quickly to 'women can't have muscles' and 'made ugly on purpose' once it was clear she wasn't trans. But that initial shitstorm toward the leaks was them going 'Naughty Dog makes trans woman kill Joel, argh!', because they saw a woman with muscles and instantly pressumed she must be trans.

 

[Cheetodust]

Nah, that's what they did with the trans flag above her door. 'See, we support trans rights - look at the flag. Oh, you didn't see it because we only showed it for a second? Well, it was there, so yay us.'
I think they actually moved on very quickly to 'women can't have muscles' and 'made ugly on purpose' once it was clear she wasn't trans. But that initial shitstorm toward the leaks was them going 'Naughty Dog makes trans woman kill Joel, argh!', because they saw a woman with muscles and instantly pressumed she must be trans.

Nah there was still a whole bunch insisting she was trans but the writers wouldn't admit it because of the "backlash".

 

[Chimpzy]

Fyi, Gwen does call herself Spiderwoman just once, in the first movie.

Not that it changes anything, but there it is

 

[Casual Shinji]

Nah there was still a whole bunch insisting she was trans but the writers wouldn't admit it because of the "backlash".

Guess I missed that - There were a heaping amount of bullshit takes to contend with during the release of TLoU2.

 

[Ag3ma]

Yes as far as I'm aware. But it is very unlikely that she is called Spider-Gwen in universe.

Spiderperson!

 

[McElroy]

I've completely lost track of your argument

I'll reiterate once for clarity's sake. You have three ways of looking at it. 1) Any argument over Gwen's sex or gender is ridiculous because she's a drawing. 2) If an argument is had anyway that means anything goes because sex and gender just aren't the same thing in reality and in Spiderverse. 3) Finally if Gwen's character is supposed to relate to the real world - where there are serious mental and physical considerations in order to try to change from a man to a woman - then you'll have to look elsewhere for a trans character.

 

[tstorm823]

No because a trans woman is a woman. At least have the decency to realize when others are trying to have a good faith discussion and keep your bigoted shit out.

That character design is not a trans-woman. If she were trans, it would have to be not as a woman, something like non-binary.

 

[Cheetodust]

That character design is not a trans-woman. If she were trans, it would have to be not as a woman, something like non-binary.

Right because you lot "can always tell".

 

[Cheetodust]

Guess I missed that - There were a heaping amount of bullshit takes to contend with during the release of TLoU2.

During the release? There are still lads who've never set foot in a gym insisting it's impossible for Abby to be muscular under those circumstances.

 

[Casual Shinji]

During the release? There are still lads who've never set foot in a gym insisting it's impossible for Abby to be muscular under those circumstances.

Yeah, but at release it was like fucking Chernobyl, now it's just the occasion fart.

 

[BrawlMan]

That and Spider-Woman is, from memory, Jessica Drew and it’s never been mentioned that Gwen - whom I’ve only ever heard referred to as Spider-Gwen - is using that mantle.

Yes as far as I'm aware. But it is very unlikely that she is called Spider-Gwen in universe.

Spiderperson!

Spider-Woman (Gwen Stacy) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Spider-Woman (Gwendolyne Maxine "Gwen" Stacy; colloquially: Spider-Gwen), also known as Ghost-Spider...