Funny Events of the "Woke" world

[Ag3ma]

Magically shape earth and rock into a ramp.
Vs poof and they're downstairs.

If you plan on a teleport system then you don't need stairs either... and the dungeon is still therefore wheelchair accessible anyway.

Secondly, who exactly plans on permanently tying up a huge amount of valuable spellcaster resources just to get in and out?
"Help, we're under attack from a party of adventurers!"
"Sorry mate, you're on your own. We only have feather fall, levitate and teleport memorised."

Also ramps in places that aren't exactly damp proof would be a great slip and slide but not very practical for traversal.

And yet outdoor wheelchair ramps exist all over the world that don't turn into deathtraps when it's raining...

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

If you plan on a teleport system then you don't need stairs either... and the dungeon is still therefore wheelchair accessible anyway.

Teleporting is for prisoners, what do you think evil warlords / sorcerers / dungeon owners made of mana? Minions take the damn stairs

And yet outdoor wheelchair ramps exist all over the world that don't turn into deathtraps when it's raining...

Because they're specifically designed in such a way with additional traction or materials that provide it often along with some way for water to drain somewhat even if it's only cracks between the slabs. Also they're often as a far lesser incline that's why they often wind round far more rather than being just a ramp taking up the same space next to the stairs.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If you plan on a teleport system then you don't need stairs either... and the dungeon is still therefore wheelchair accessible anyway.

Secondly, who exactly plans on permanently tying up a huge amount of valuable spellcaster resources just to get in and out?
"Help, we're under attack from a party of adventurers!"
"Sorry mate, you're on your own. We only have feather fall, levitate and teleport memorised."

Ye 'old dungeon designs had wildly inefficient logistics. Teleport traps, complicated mechanisms, locks that would make a modern locksmith blush, magical riddles on absurdly expensive doors, etc. All to guard a modest treasure. I swear, some dungeons the outer doors were worth more than the treasure haul

And yet outdoor wheelchair ramps exist all over the world that don't turn into deathtraps when it's raining...

Plus, like, stone isn't exactly slip resistant. What are those dungeons carved out of? If a dungeon is meant to be sallied out of, do they want a company of their guys to have to navigate an obstacle course in and out every time in single file?

Like, tombs might be a special case because dudes *aren't* supposed to be going in and out, but a decent writer could work around that. Access space for palanquins or what not

 

[Ag3ma]

Ye 'old dungeon designs had wildly inefficient logistics.

Sure. But they still want the spellcasters defending it rather than running a glorified elevator service. Do you think the average lich defies death itself because it has a desperate passion to be a glorified bellboy for eternity?

[quite]Plus, like, stone isn't exactly slip resistant. What are those dungeons carved out of? If a dungeon is meant to be sallied out of, do they want a company of their guys to have to navigate an obstacle course in and out every time in single file?[/QUOTE]

Castles did fine with stone ramps. They needed wagons (plus various other wheeled devices like cannons) and horses to get in and out and around.

 

[Eacaraxe]

Sure. But they still want the spellcasters defending it rather than running a glorified elevator service. Do you think the average lich defies death itself because it has a desperate passion to be a glorified bellboy for eternity?

You do know the in-universe backstory for the single most infamous D&D module, is the whole-ass dungeon with ludicrously elaborate and dangerous magical traps some of which probably cost more in time and components than the literal rest of the dungeon, was made by an ancient lich for the singular purpose of amusing himself watching adventurers try to navigate the dungeon and die? Acererak literally advertises his dungeon to nearby settlements as if it were some sadomasochistic medieval game show, to lure adventurers in.

So...yeah. Liches can be, and in fact often are, that fucking petty. Not everyday comes some massive BBEG plot to end the world or some shit. They get bored, too.

Castles did fine with stone ramps. They needed wagons (plus various other wheeled devices like cannons) and horses to get in and out and around.

You're really pointing at a bunch of stuff easily classified as "not a wheelchair" to justify these places are wheelchair-accessible.

Let's see some pics of inside the castles. That is to say, where it would have to be defended man-to-man if the outer defenses were breached.

 

[Gordon_4]

So...yeah. Liches can be, and in fact often are, that fucking petty. Not everyday comes some massive BBEG plot to end the world or some shit. They get bored, too.

*thinks back to six sessions ago* Oh yeah, I am very much aware.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

You're really pointing at a bunch of stuff easily classified as "not a wheelchair" to justify these places are wheelchair-accessible.

Let's see some pics of inside the castles. That is to say, where it would have to be defended man-to-man if the outer defenses were breached.

Are we trying to emulate reality or fantasy?

EDIT: Look, the telling part of that silly article, aside from being a few paragraphs about the new book as an excuse to rant about wokeness, was the line about how the new adventures made sure to point out that the villains were the bad guys because of what they were doing instead of what they were. Imagine thing that's a problem. The main crux about why the whining about ttrpgs is so pathetic comes down to the fact that some idiots are mad that the biggest rpg in the world isn't catering solely to them anymore. That some people are playing Fantasy Extreme Ghostbusters instead of running the Ultrakill Gauntlet 5000 or whatever. A thing which you can still play, though lord knows why you'd do so in any version of D&D made in at least the last 15 years is beyond me, as it just hasn't been that type of game in a good long while

 

[Cicada 5]

The Unsettling Rise of the Anti-Pick Me Girl

Punching down at "pick me girls" seems like an act of solidarity among women, until you look more closely.

jezebel.com

 

[Ag3ma]

You do know the in-universe backstory for the single most infamous D&D module, is the whole-ass dungeon with ludicrously elaborate and dangerous magical traps some of which probably cost more in time and components than the literal rest of the dungeon, was made by an ancient lich for the singular purpose of amusing himself watching adventurers try to navigate the dungeon and die? Acererak literally advertises his dungeon to nearby settlements as if it were some sadomasochistic medieval game show, to lure adventurers in.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of grandiose, mad and cruel plan I expect a lich to do. It simply does not equate to a lich whose eternal undeath is telling visitors "Next stop, dungeon sublevel 3", does it?

You're really pointing at a bunch of stuff easily classified as "not a wheelchair" to justify these places are wheelchair-accessible.

Yes, and this is completely consistent with the situation. The dungeon that has sparked this outrage may be "wheelchair accessible" by inventor intent, but is apparently not by in-game reason. Therefore all there needs to be is a reasonable justification under the scenario's internal logic why the dungeon happens to be wheelchair accessible... of which there could be many, and several are already posted.

Let's see some pics of inside the castles. That is to say, where it would have to be defended man-to-man if the outer defenses were breached.

I'm guessing that you did not read the context of the discussion before prematurely blowing your load over it. The point of the pics of castles are simply to refute "slippery stones" as a reason to argue ramps would not be used in a medieval construction... for no less a reason than that in real life, they were. There is no need to detail the entire defensive systems of a castle, because the root subject is a dungeon (which in the D&D sense might mean any large enclosed area, such as a castle, temple, palace, cave, labyrinth, etc.), that doesn't necessarily serve the same function as a castle.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Logical sense?

This is a comparison between scientists making estimates for animal populations with the benefits of their expertise, and you pulling numbers out of your arse. Inasmuch as logic applies, we should probably believe the scientists who have some expert opinion, not you.

As to the rest, it is mostly just changing the subject.



Wherever you got that from, it's at best a minority view. Based on the available data, the prevailing belief of the landscape of Britain before the post-glacial humans is that it was overwhelmingly a huge (if not necessarily always very dense) forest, with only very modest amounts of open space.

Again, it's pretty easy to get up to at least half of today's cow methane emission when your paper was saying it's 3x. You act like any of these numbers are known facts. There's a range of an estimated 30-60 million buffalo in the 1500s in America, that's quite a range and that's not that long ago. If scientists don't have accurate numbers for 500 years ago, you think they have accurate numbers of animals before humans? And I'm pretty sure we have no idea how much methane extinct animals emitted either. The nature of science is that it's wrong more often than it is right.

 

[Ag3ma]

Again, it's pretty easy to get up to at least half of today's cow methane emission when your paper was saying it's 3x. You act like any of these numbers are known facts.

No, like all the multiple times I've said it, given a choice between a scientific estimation and your random guy back of a beermat estimation, better to take the scientific estimation.

The nature of science is that it's wrong more often than it is right.

What was all that "follow the science" stuff you spent three years telling everyone about, then? Was it just a phase you were going through, but you're over it now?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

No, like all the multiple times I've said it, given a choice between a scientific estimation and your random guy back of a beermat estimation, better to take the scientific estimation.



What was all that "follow the science" stuff you spent three years telling everyone about, then? Was it just a phase you were going through, but you're over it now?

When the science has lots of unknowns and a huge ass range estimation, it's hardly factual at that point. You're fighting for this very thing that has tons of unknowns but you won't accept covid science that is very very very known. Where's your consistency on that? You seem to just accept the science that agrees with your opinion; when the science agrees with your opinion, you take it as science and when it doesn't agree with your opinion, you don't seem to count it. You actually go an call scientists that are in favor of evidence some kind of cult just because they say things based on actual evidence.

 

[Silvanus]

When the science has lots of unknowns and a huge ass range estimation, it's hardly factual at that point.

And yet, modelling exercises from scientists tend to get much closer to the truth than random estimations.

You're fighting for this very thing that has tons of unknowns but you won't accept covid science that is very very very known. Where's your consistency on that?

It's just that you don't know what the scientific consensus actually is. That's all.

 

[Ag3ma]

When the science has lots of unknowns and a huge ass range estimation, it's hardly factual at that point. You're fighting for this very thing that has tons of unknowns but you won't accept covid science that is very very very known. Where's your consistency on that? You seem to just accept the science that agrees with your opinion; when the science agrees with your opinion, you take it as science and when it doesn't agree with your opinion, you don't seem to count it.

Science is based on probability. It does not tell you what is absolutely right and what is absolutely wrong, it tells you what is more or less likely to be true.

A scientist will understand that. I can understand non-scientists not quite getting it, because when the probability something is true is sufficiently high, it is generally talked about like an absolute fact, and will be functionally treated as one even by scientists. Thus, were you to notice (you don't appear to), I spend a great deal of time talking in terms of balance of evidence.

Uncertainty is something a scientist kind of needs to accept. However, even with high uncertainty, if the evidence is 80:20, the most reasonable thing to do is give the 80 priority in one's belief. Even if it's wrong, at least you'd be wrong for the right reasons. The right reasons matter, because if you reason right, you'll be right more often than you're wrong in the long run. That's how probability works, after all.

You actually go an call scientists that are in favor of evidence some kind of cult just because they say things based on actual evidence.

No, I disagree with the philsophical stance and thus the resultant scientific analysis of certain doctors who have very particular way of assessing evidence. Specifically, that the way they they weigh certain forms of evidence is likely to cause suboptimal reasoning that leads them to make errors in their conclusions or leave them unable to make conclusions that they should. A more holistic view of science would be preferable.

I call them a cult because because that's how they have been accused as operating by quite a few other people in the field... this might be pejorative, but I can see why.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Castles did fine with stone ramps. They needed wagons (plus various other wheeled devices like cannons) and horses to get in and out and around.
View attachment 9249View attachment 9250

Fun fact, Ye Olde Castles had basic Cranes


So yeh no need to haul carts up ramps or cannons etc.

Also those are cut stone ramps with grooves and gaps in the stone etc still

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Are we trying to emulate reality or fantasy?

EDIT: Look, the telling part of that silly article, aside from being a few paragraphs about the new book as an excuse to rant about wokeness, was the line about how the new adventures made sure to point out that the villains were the bad guys because of what they were doing instead of what they were. Imagine thing that's a problem. The main crux about why the whining about ttrpgs is so pathetic comes down to the fact that some idiots are mad that the biggest rpg in the world isn't catering solely to them anymore. That some people are playing Fantasy Extreme Ghostbusters instead of running the Ultrakill Gauntlet 5000 or whatever. A thing which you can still play, though lord knows why you'd do so in any version of D&D made in at least the last 15 years is beyond me, as it just hasn't been that type of game in a good long while

I don't know if that reference was deliberate but you realise they had to carry said member of the Extreme Ghostbusters team sometimes right?

In actual episodes they basically had to pick him out of his wheelchair and carry him round with them right?

The Unsettling Rise of the Anti-Pick Me Girl

Punching down at "pick me girls" seems like an act of solidarity among women, until you look more closely.

jezebel.com

Can't believe I'm about to say this but the Jezebel writer is right. I mean it's based on the idea women couldn't possibly like x thing or hold y belief purely because they're women. Which is pretty sexist.

 

[Ag3ma]

Fun fact, Ye Olde Castles had basic Cranes

So, you've provided literally nothing whatsoever to disprove the existence and utility of ramps.

 

[Absent]

I need a "Previously, on Funny Events Of The Woke World" .

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I don't know if that reference was deliberate but you realise they had to carry said member of the Extreme Ghostbusters team sometimes right?

In actual episodes they basically had to pick him out of his wheelchair and carry him round with them right?

Yes? And? Therefore? They also *didn't* have to do that plenty of times

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Yes? And? Therefore? They also *didn't* have to do that plenty of times

but the show actually showed them working round said thing. They didn't magically only explore places with wheelchair accessible ramps.

I seem to recall it even became a minor plot point multiple times. It wasn't some aesthetic look.

I remember some-one on about their D&D campaign before where they played basically a living plant. No legs just a pot they could barely jump about to move slowly in. Most of the time they relied on other players helping them about or other solutions like creating arcane golems or other such constructs to transport them or other solutions. The whole trying to find solutions to the problems that came up was part of the game for them they didn't expect the game to bend to them just so they could pretend it was an aesthetic.