Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Eacaraxe

Elite Member
Legacy
May 28, 2020
1,703
1,287
118
Country
United States
Just gonna completely ignore the game balance portion, huh
I have been doing the complete opposite of this the entire time. In fact, I even suggested a common magical item version of this which would be totally acceptable within the context of other common items' remit...twice. While continually pointing out that certain class abilities, spells, and items would correct for mobility issues better, while having stronger class flavor, fantasy fulfillment, and verisimilitude with a given setting.

You're the one who suggested it be realistic a wheelchair have built-in resistance to being shoved or knocked over, when that is certainly not the case. While suggesting the use of other abilities, spells, or devices would be unacceptable due to a perception of "fixing" disability. Pick a fuckin' lane, dude, that is if you're not so desperate to see the "anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot" talking point fulfilled, you're willing to even discard the facade of reason or civility.

Which is in the context of several examples illustrating how the broom let you bypass problems and dangerous obstacles in a variety of circumstances rather than your capacity to travel long distances. It was your angle to try and reduce flight's utility to simple travel, when you tried to argue that Phantom Steed was necessarily superior because of its capacity for overland travel despite the fact that the subject of discussion was that it was weird for you to be complaining about a mount ignoring terrain restrictions and then championing flying items practically in the next breath considering that their flight does the same and more.
What you did was pick a handful of examples exemplary of bad campaign planning, pursuant to your assertion flight is a "game changer". Simply flying over a forest isn't bypassing a problem or dangerous obstacle, it's just travel. It's on the DM's head if they planned for that forest to be a major thing, and didn't anticipate their players simply using resources at their disposal -- and yet again, one of the most common abilities in the game -- to just go over it. I'm not changing the subject, I'm refusing the premise of your entire argument.

What I have done about Phantom Steed, is not yet go into how overwhelmingly overpowered it is in combat.

It strains credulity that you can read that conversation and think that my argument was somehow centered on the simple ability to use it to travel long distances, and insist that that must have been my point even after I provide a series of examples wherein flight is used to escape from or otherwise bypass danger simply because one of those examples was represented as a dangerous forest.
That would be because the only actual utility of the overland flight spell is overland travel. It only grants a speed increase of 10 compared to fly's 30, locks out the charge and run actions, doesn't improve maneuverability as does fly, and doesn't have fly's trailing featherfall effect. Using it in combat is a "are you sure you want to do that?" moment, and the only thing it will "bypass" is poor campaign and encounter design.

You already (inadvertently) framed the conversation around overland travel, citing a spell the only utility of which is overland travel.

Or more strictly, the novels exaggerate what's in the rule books, because the rule books are the source material.

Artistic licence, they call it.
"The fluff doesn't matter when it disproves me".

The movie's canon, by the way. Game material published after the film's script was finalized already references places and events in the film. Revel's End and members of its Absolution Council show up in both the movie and Rime of the Frostmaiden, because the module's and script's writers collaborated. So, whoops.

But speaking of Icewind Dale...

Sure. And in Salvatore's Icewind Dale, there's barely a mage to be found...
Because it's a frozen-over, inhospitable, shithole where nobody other than indigenous peoples want to live. The rest of the population's there because they're refugees, fugitives, outlaws, can't afford to leave, or there to plunder the Frozenfar's natural resources for export. Mages tend to not live there because they can get out, and simply contract adventurers to do their business for them. Clue #1 on that really oughta be it's where the infamous drow fugitive went to hide.

Again, it's really interesting how we're just...supposed to accept places like Icewind Dale as the representative norm, while treating the Silver Marches, the Sword Coast North, the Lands of Intrigue (i.e. the Sword Coast South), the Dalelands, the Sea of Fallen Stars coast, Cormyr, Sembia, Thay, Mulhorand, Evermeet, Lantan, the Moonshae Isles, Halruaa, and Zakhara as the "unrepresentative" exception. What's the next trick, telling us the Western Heartlands and Anauroch are the "norm" too?

The former's a wide stretch of rural country...that just so happened to be sandwiched neatly between the inhospitable bog divided neatly between wild and dead magic zones because it was the site sun elves set off the magical equivalent of tsar bomba, the last high elven realm on mainland Faerun, the last vestige of the Sarrukh empire, the still-populated and active Netherese necropolis, the giant forest heavily populated by green dragons, and the mountain range heavily populated by red dragons. And smack dab in the middle is the city-keep populated and frequented by the most powerful wizards on the fucking planet, and the ruined castle with an active portal to Avernus. But just ignore all that, those are the exceptions not the rules. Eyes on, and only on, the (aptly-named) Fields of the Dead. That's the norm.

The latter's a giant badlands and desert. Just ignore the part it's a giant badlands and desert because literal aliens ate all the magic. And what the aliens didn't eat, the Netherese blew up. But it has bedouin analogs there who shun magic! Just pay attention to that part, and only that part. It's the norm, I promise!

Even where there is a mage in such places, it's likely little more than a level 1 dabbler who can mostly just show off some tricks.
Ugh, again, D&D PC classes are exceptional. They're comparable to "hero" or "advanced" classes in MMO's: only a select few make up their number. This is why the game has the Expert, Spellcaster, and Warrior (i.e. NPC/sidekick) classes: to reflect characters who have life or practical experience, but lack the highly-specialized training or exceptional origins of player characters.

Brother Chuck the Village Priest won't be a low-level cleric, replete with proficiencies, channel divinity, and a domain. He'll be a healer-subclass spellcaster, likely low- to mid-level. Maddie the barmaid who's secretly a Harper agent watching the trade route for signs of Zhent or Arcane Brotherhood activity isn't going to have rogue or bard levels, she'll have levels in expert. And if a small tribe of goblins make their home in a nearby cave, Chuck and Maddie aren't going to post wanted signs for a group of PC's, they'll call in Mort the half-ogre caravan guard (who's a warrior) and Wheezy the hedge wizard (a mage-subclass spellcaster) to clear it out for themselves.

Chuck and Wheezy are still capable of casting cantrips and leveled magic, even though they're not a cleric or a wizard respectively.
 

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 15, 2013
12,150
6,407
118
Country
United Kingdom
This entire tangent about whether wheelchairs contextually make sense in these different fantasy settings is scarcely relevant, because we're talking about an IP that allows for an enormous amount of creator/DM licence and flexibility to create the scenarios they want to see. It's an IP that accommodates homebrew, even. It is not supposed to be rigidly prescriptive. Bast almighty, the whole conversation flies in the face of the spirit of the IP.

Imagine reading Order of the Stick, and getting apoplectically angry that the writer depicted a cart or carriage, when easier magical solutions exist according to the D&D rulebook. Who the fuck could be so petty? He's writing the story he wants to write, with the details he likes, and the IP is flexible enough to let him do that.
 

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,208
118
Blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah!! Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah. Blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah!! Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah. Blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah!! Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblahblah, blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah.
Is there an actual decent argument anywhere in that tedious infodump?
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,230
1,083
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
That would be because the only actual utility of the overland flight spell is overland travel. It only grants a speed increase of 10 compared to fly's 30, locks out the charge and run actions, doesn't improve maneuverability as does fly, and doesn't have fly's trailing featherfall effect. Using it in combat is a "are you sure you want to do that?" moment, and the only thing it will "bypass" is poor campaign and encounter design.

You already (inadvertently) framed the conversation around overland travel, citing a spell the only utility of which is overland travel.
*facepalm*

Eacaraxe? I want you to remember that I cited this spell as a rough point of comparison (owing to its long duration) to the actual object of discussion: Broom of Flying, which has none of those restrictions. Again, I used that spell because it was easier to compare than presuming that you devoted 54 spell slots to Fly to replicate what is functionally an all day duration.

And as you so helpfully pointed out a few posts ago, Overland Flight does not even exist in 5e, so ways in which you perceive that spell - rather than the wondrous item - to be underpowered are even less relevant.

To be blunt, at this point you've sacrificed the assumption of good faith. This is developing into a pattern of you seemingly being so caught up in trying to prove me wrong as a matter of principle that you lost track of the actual argument. You've The argument isn't that Overland Flight is better than Fly (I don't think that was ever so much as suggested), it is about the power of the Broom of Flying (which has abilities closer to the latter) and my contention that you were underselling that item's raw utility. For goodness sake, by all appearances you even failed to realize that in trying to put me in my place for invoking Overland Flight at all that you not only failed to realize that I invoked something weaker than the subject of discussion, but that in trying to paint me as dumb for doing so you ended up talking up the very ability (Fly) that you had been trying to downplay in the rest of the conversation.

So again I say that your approach to this conversation means that this discussion is no longer worth pursuing. Good day.
 
Last edited:

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,501
3,701
118
Or more strictly, the novels exaggerate what's in the rule books, because the rule books are the source material.

Artistic licence, they call it.

But even then...
Well no actually, Ed Greenwood is the source material for Forgotten Realms, not the DMG.
 

Zykon TheLich

Extra Heretical!
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
3,495
834
118
Country
UK
This entire tangent about whether wheelchairs contextually make sense in these different fantasy settings is scarcely relevant, because we're talking about an IP that allows for an enormous amount of creator/DM licence and flexibility to create the scenarios they want to see. It's an IP that accommodates homebrew, even. It is not supposed to be rigidly prescriptive. Bast almighty, the whole conversation flies in the face of the spirit of the IP.

Imagine reading Order of the Stick, and getting apoplectically angry that the writer depicted a cart or carriage, when easier magical solutions exist according to the D&D rulebook. Who the fuck could be so petty? He's writing the story he wants to write, with the details he likes, and the IP is flexible enough to let him do that.
As someone who occasionally skims the R&P section out of morbid curiosity and doesn't want to lose the few precious brain cells I have left searching back through the thread to find this out for myself, I wonder if I might ask: What the hell is going on? Why on earth is there a great long argument on wheelchairs in RPGs?
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,501
3,701
118
As someone who occasionally skims the R&P section out of morbid curiosity and doesn't want to lose the few precious brain cells I have left searching back through the thread to find this out for myself, I wonder if I might ask: What the hell is going on? Why on earth is there a great long argument on wheelchairs in RPGs?
Somebody wrote a homebrew wheelchair for D&D 5e and the reaction to it has ranged from reasonable down to "There wouldn't be ramps in D&D so no wheelchairs ever".
 

davidmc1158

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
241
275
68
Or more strictly, the novels exaggerate what's in the rule books, because the rule books are the source material.

Artistic licence, they call it.

But even then...



Sure. And in Salvatore's Icewind Dale, there's barely a mage to be found. This is what most of the world is like, because most of the population is rural (remember: >90% of the population will be rural). Even where there is a mage in such places, it's likely little more than a level 1 dabbler who can mostly just show off some tricks. If you are a mage who can earn $$$ making magic scrolls for rich clients, why are you in a hamlet or small town with nothing but peasants who have barely two silver pieces to rub together? You'll then have cities where mages are more common, and then some cities which specialise in magic like Silverymoon. They are not representative.

This is just how things such as industry distributes across a geographical area: the varied historical, economic, social, and political circumstances drive localised concentrations, and the difference between a focal point for that industry and the norm may be huge. Think Silicon Valley for IT, Detroit for cars, 19th C. Lancashire for cotton, medieval Toledo steel. But you don't think because 1960s Detroit existed the whole USA was a mass of car factories.
OK, I seem to have stated my point badly or something. I am not just drawing from the novels, I am drawing from the actual game sourcebooks I own from back in my D&D playing days (AD&D and 2nd ed, so it is skewed information in regards to 5th ed). I am unsure of the current classification, but in ye olde days a low level character was level 1-3, mid level was 4-8, and high level was 9-14 with anyone higher than than effectively a legendary character.

As an example of Ed Greenwood's setting power levels, Daggerford is a small (400 people) town in the middle of nowhere. It hosts as permanent residents, 2 cavaliers (knight class, levels 5 and 8), 2 fighters (levels 6 and 7), a 7th level ranger, several mages (levels 5, 8, 11 and 11), a 6th level illusionist, 3 clerics (levels 6, 8, and 9) and 2 thieves (levels 9 and 11). This is out of N5 Under Illefarn, an official game source detailing a region of the Forgotten Realms. And this is considered average for rural places across the Forgotten Realms. Over the years I've collected far too many supplements (Heaven only knows how much money I'd have nowadays if I had invested that cash instead of spending it on gaming stuff) and it's much the same across the entire setting. FR2 the Moonshae Isles, FR3 Empires of the Sands (details 3 nations south of the Sword Coast), FR5 The Savage Frontier (detailing the northern wildlands).

Hell, FR13 Anauroch is the supplement that introduced the Phaerimm. This race of monster worms are all mages and they range in level from 30th to 36th level spellcasters with the added ability to have a spell from each spell level be treated as a natural ability castable without spell slots AND they absorb magical attacks directed against them, AND AND they do not require material components or foci for their spells. This was a supplement written by Ed Greenwood, by the way, the actual source for the setting.

Each of those small po-dunk villages you've mentioned where the most exciting thing to have happened in a year was a fist-fight? According to Ed Greenwood (and the game supplements he produced) almost every single one of those villages just so happens to be the residence of a 20+ level spellcaster who wanted a quiet place to set up shop. Remember, this is the setting where the creator of it used a major character as a self-insert piece of fan-fic (Elminster the 26th level mage back when introduced) and then created dozens of ultra-high level mage characters for said mage to play with in the setting who, then in turn, had thousands of mid to high level minions/associates scattered across the planet.

Quite frankly, Ag3ma, Icewind Dale is the exception when it comes to the prevalence of magic in the Forgotten Realms according to the official gaming materials. The central rulebooks (the DMG and Player's Handbook) do NOT represent the level of magic present in this setting.

As much as I admire your ability to logically go through a subject, Ag3ma, I'm afraid you seem to allowed your own stubborn to get in the way on this particular matter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crimson5pheonix

Zykon TheLich

Extra Heretical!
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
3,495
834
118
Country
UK
Somebody wrote a homebrew wheelchair for D&D 5e and the reaction to it has ranged from reasonable down to "There wouldn't be ramps in D&D so no wheelchairs ever".
OK. So they posted their homebrew rules here? Or are we transplanting an RPG.net thread to R&P for some reason that I can't quite fathom?

EDIT: I guess maybe "wheelchair = disability = woke" so that's the connection?
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,501
3,701
118
OK. So they posted their homebrew rules here? Or are we transplanting an RPG.net thread to R&P for some reason that I can't quite fathom?

EDIT: I guess maybe "wheelchair = disability = woke" so that's the connection?
I think it started on rpgnet, but I'm not too clear on it. But yes, somebody brought up the wheelchair and tied it to wokeism because muh D&D shouldn't have disabled people or whatever. The actual core of that conversation is dumb, I don't even know how I got sucked into it. But now we're talking about how magical Ed Greenwood's magical realm is.
 

Phoenixmgs

The Muse of Fate
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
9,667
831
118
w/ M'Kraan Crystal
Gender
Male
Yes, your disregard for facts when they got in the way of your preferred narrative is already well-known. No need to keep showcasing it. At this point, I think the difference between anecdotes and statistics has been explained to you in the tens of times, so I'm not going to try to do it myself.
I don't care what any protests are for; if they are violent then that's not good plain and simple. I said the same of the Jan 6th violence, though I thought it was stupid charging people for wandering in and taking selfies. You can literally say the same of Jan 6th, that it was mostly peaceful as well because it was. How did my stance change based on what political affiliation those had? I was consistent. Where's these posts on here with you guys against the violence and looting of the BLM protests in the same manner as Jan 6th? You can literally google "blm reported peaceful building on fire in the shot" to find what I said literally happened, it's not an anecdote, it demonstrates the difference in how the media portrayed BLM vs Jan 6th for example. Even freaking Fauci said participating in the protests were OK with regards to covid when he was saying how going to the beach was so dangerous beforehand.

Let's imagine a scenario. The police are interviewing a suspect accused of a crime. The suspect tells the interviewing detective "I didn't do it". The detective replies "Sure, but you would say that, wouldn't you?" The detective has made an ad hominem... but the detective is right to do so. The suspect's assertion of innocence has to be evaluated in the context of the benefit to the suspect of being found innocent, thereby meaning he is motivated to lie and his statement is unreliable.

This is the context in which I have delivered an ad hominem: a completely justifiable querying of the authors and publishers because they are biased, and at worst even have an outright conflict of interest. This is an absolutely basic principle of assessing the quality of material. It's on this basis I'm not motivated to engage with it. It's a basic concept of science: full disclosure and transparency, acknowledgement of sources, etc.



Oh my god. This isn't even the first time you've made this absurd error. Why won't you read and learn?

John Hopkins is an institution which employs academics who are free to do their own research through external funding grants. This paper is not the official view of John Hopkins, as per the standard boilerplate up front and centre:
"The Studies in Applied Economics series is under the general direction of Prof. Steve H. Hanke, Founder and Co-Director of The Johns Hopkins Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise ([email protected]). The views expressed in each working paper are those of the authors and not necessarily those of the institutions that the authors are affiliated with."

We can look through the output of John Hopkins and see the wild and wonderful variety of the output of it's staff reflecting a multitude of views. We won't find that from the IEA, because the IEA does not support or promote free investigation of the world.



Because the whole exercise is difficult to the point of impossible and fundamentally a load of shit that distracts from the issues more than it helps. Which is something people from all over the political spectrum can agree on.

The function of this line is for the usual anti-lockdown suspects to make bogus claims. They can't actually achieve useful answers either way, the aim is merely to influence the peanut gallery into agreeing with them. They have simply made a claim they cannot adequately defend, and then try to demand we have to believe it until it is disproven. Fuck that shit.



Fuck! Why are you repeating this, again, when it is flatly wrong? The below graph is 2021 data, but indicates just how far Sweden was from the best. Why do you just baldly state such completely and easily disprovable lies?
View attachment 9266



Au contraire! We literally have evidence that masks work. We also literally have evidence that does not find that they work. The reason most scientists think they do and the cranks you get your information from think they don't is simply that your cranks ignore a load of the evidence.
You do realize when you post a paper or something, I don't just look up the person that did it and find some conflict of interest or bias and dismiss the paper. When have I ever done that? You constantly do that. You don't give any reasons why it's wrong.

So then what's wrong with the paper done by PEOPLE from John Hopkins...?

How don't you get this? When you doing an intervention for anything, you have to prove it works first! Doing something that has massive massive costs and not knowing if the benefits will even come close to those costs is horrible public policy.

And how did Sweden do in terms of their excess deaths compared to other European countries? People die from more than just covid. If you're public health policy only helps in saving covid deaths but causes increases in deaths in several other areas, how is that a good policy?

Where is this evidence that masks work? That's like actually good data and not observational BS data?

This is a sort of random, squeaking fart of an objection. Partly because it's not making any meaningful point that moves your case an inch further, and partly because it suggests you simply did not read the sources provided.

That appears to be your commitment to rational, scientific discourse writ large: "Yeah, that stuff's complex and doesn't say what I want to believe, so I'll just not read it". You are exactly the sort of person who simply posts a supposed paper and demands everyone takes note of it, with not even the most cursory evaluation of how reliable it is likely to be never mind the contents in detail. One can only laugh at the irony of you demanding we analyse 200-page reports when you showed no sense of responsibility to check or understand it before you posted it in the first place. It is even disgusting and disrespectful for you to lazily and ignorantly throw shit around that's far beyond your comprehension, but at the same time expect everyone else to put in hours of work to refute it.
Because it doesn't make much sense on its head. Amount of methane emitted by animals varies greatly by animal and their mass as well. You do realize, you're upset at me for "ballparking" it when that's exactly what they are doing as well, "ballparking" it.

Because the US response was terrible, and not something to be emulated.



That's highly arguable-- Sweden had a notably low mortality rate at times, but also some quite sizeable failures, particularly in the first wave.

Sweden was quite well placed to respond to the pandemic owing to a pre-existing strong healthcare sector, a lower population than a lot of its peers, helpful geography, and high community compliance. Scandinavian countries in general share these features, and several of the others did better, at least at the start.



You have been given evidence over and over and over and over again. Each time you've found a single minor limitation (of the kind every study has), or just simply misread the paper or misrepresented the conclusions, and then dismissed it in its entirety. Then a few pages later gone back to claiming "ZERO EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN GIVEN", with a straight face as if anybody is taking that seriously.
Outside of the initial response, how the US response terrible? The US followed the "scientific consensus".

Sweden's main fuckup was not protecting the vulnerable early on. Maybe Sweden had high community compliance for basic logical interventions because the public was told to do basic things and treated like adults vs the horrible US messaging. Everyone knows how asinine having to wear a mask to your seat at a restaurant was (then taking it off at your seat) or how dumb it it was the pre-schoolers had to wear a mask besides when they slept. The fact that you enact such illogical things makes people question everything else as being illogical.

Nope, zero actual good evidence that masks work, same with lockdowns. In fact, I don't think there exists a single paper that says lockdowns provided more benefits than harms.
 

Ag3ma

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2023
2,574
2,208
118
Well no actually, Ed Greenwood is the source material for Forgotten Realms, not the DMG.
Firstly, I don't personally draw much distinction between core player guides and official campaign settings with the term "rule books". Secondly, if the DMG explicitly references FR (and it does), then it counts anyway.

And if you're now going to change tack and accept Ed Greenwood as authority, I'll remind you he stated his view that about 1 in 10,000 - 100,000 of the population are spellcasters.
 

The Rogue Wolf

Stealthy Carnivore
Legacy
Nov 25, 2007
16,907
9,599
118
Stalking the Digital Tundra
Gender
✅
I think it started on rpgnet, but I'm not too clear on it. But yes, somebody brought up the wheelchair and tied it to wokeism because muh D&D shouldn't have disabled people or whatever.
The bulled D&D nerds who got excluded from all the cool clubs just want their turn to be bullies who get to exclude others now.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,501
3,701
118
Firstly, I don't personally draw much distinction between core player guides and official campaign settings with the term "rule books". Secondly, if the DMG explicitly references FR (and it does), then it counts anyway.

And if you're now going to change tack and accept Ed Greenwood as authority, I'll remind you he stated his view that about 1 in 10,000 - 100,000 of the population are spellcasters.
davidmc1158 said:
OK, I seem to have stated my point badly or something. I am not just drawing from the novels, I am drawing from the actual game sourcebooks I own from back in my D&D playing days (AD&D and 2nd ed, so it is skewed information in regards to 5th ed). I am unsure of the current classification, but in ye olde days a low level character was level 1-3, mid level was 4-8, and high level was 9-14 with anyone higher than than effectively a legendary character.

As an example of Ed Greenwood's setting power levels, Daggerford is a small (400 people) town in the middle of nowhere. It hosts as permanent residents, 2 cavaliers (knight class, levels 5 and 8), 2 fighters (levels 6 and 7), a 7th level ranger, several mages (levels 5, 8, 11 and 11), a 6th level illusionist, 3 clerics (levels 6, 8, and 9) and 2 thieves (levels 9 and 11). This is out of N5 Under Illefarn, an official game source detailing a region of the Forgotten Realms. And this is considered average for rural places across the Forgotten Realms. Over the years I've collected far too many supplements (Heaven only knows how much money I'd have nowadays if I had invested that cash instead of spending it on gaming stuff) and it's much the same across the entire setting. FR2 the Moonshae Isles, FR3 Empires of the Sands (details 3 nations south of the Sword Coast), FR5 The Savage Frontier (detailing the northern wildlands).

Hell, FR13 Anauroch is the supplement that introduced the Phaerimm. This race of monster worms are all mages and they range in level from 30th to 36th level spellcasters with the added ability to have a spell from each spell level be treated as a natural ability castable without spell slots AND they absorb magical attacks directed against them, AND AND they do not require material components or foci for their spells. This was a supplement written by Ed Greenwood, by the way, the actual source for the setting.

Each of those small po-dunk villages you've mentioned where the most exciting thing to have happened in a year was a fist-fight? According to Ed Greenwood (and the game supplements he produced) almost every single one of those villages just so happens to be the residence of a 20+ level spellcaster who wanted a quiet place to set up shop. Remember, this is the setting where the creator of it used a major character as a self-insert piece of fan-fic (Elminster the 26th level mage back when introduced) and then created dozens of ultra-high level mage characters for said mage to play with in the setting who, then in turn, had thousands of mid to high level minions/associates scattered across the planet.

Quite frankly, Ag3ma, Icewind Dale is the exception when it comes to the prevalence of magic in the Forgotten Realms according to the official gaming materials. The central rulebooks (the DMG and Player's Handbook) do NOT represent the level of magic present in this setting.

As much as I admire your ability to logically go through a subject, Ag3ma, I'm afraid you seem to allowed your own stubborn to get in the way on this particular matter.
Ed Greenwood is notably a writer and not a statistician, and also has a problem in portraying the world in speech compared to his writing. As written, FR is a high magic setting.

Now that's the kind of oldschool derailment I like. Makes me quite tearfully nostalgic really.
I wanted to talk more about trans people in D&D though :(

The bulled D&D nerds who got excluded from all the cool clubs just want their turn to be bullies who get to exclude others now.
In their honor I'll make my next character a grappler who has to handstand everywhere.
 

Zykon TheLich

Extra Heretical!
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
3,495
834
118
Country
UK
I wanted to talk more about trans people in D&D though :(
Girdle of masculinity/femininity...go!

I mean, it's an utterly pointless magic item mechanically, no stat changes, but they included it as far back as 2nd edition as far as I know, possibly further.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
Legacy
Jun 6, 2008
36,501
3,701
118
Girdle of masculinity/femininity...go!

I mean, it's an utterly pointless magic item mechanically, no stat changes, but they included it as far back as 2nd edition as far as I know, possibly further.
Oh yeah, but that's what would make the topic fun, talking about weird sidequests and plotlines that involve that sort of thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: davidmc1158