Baldur's Gate 3

[Phoenixmgs]

It's pretty funny how other devs are complaining about BG3. The thing about a game like BG3 is the devs actually put in the time and effort to do the hard things that other devs just don't even try to do. It's hard to put choices into a video game, it's hard to allow a player several different solutions to a problem. And most devs just care about making the same game, but bigger and better looking; wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

 

[Ag3ma]

Interesting statistics. Didn't know half-elf paladin was so popular. Guess smashing enemies with different ice cream flavors helps?

Paladin is an obvious class. Fighters are probably the simplest class to play and give some easy "in-your-face" stompiness, but Paladins give a little bit more versatility and angle. Then pick a half elf because of the CHA buff, they're generally versatile, and feel a bit more "cool" than a boring old human.

You would be surprised how many players want to play certain races for image. Some people want to imagine themselves as the main character, being tall, handsome, awesome etc. Dwarfs are short and ugly, Githyanki are weird and alien (etc.), etc. That really leaves humans, elves, and half-elves.

 

[Ag3ma]

It's pretty funny how other devs are complaining about BG3. The thing about a game like BG3 is the devs actually put in the time and effort to do the hard things that other devs just don't even try to do. It's hard to put choices into a video game, it's hard to allow a player several different solutions to a problem. And most devs just care about making the same game, but bigger and better looking; wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

This is stupid, manufactured, clickbait outrage.

Most other devs are not "complaining". They are largely complementing the scope of BG3 but also pointing out that most cRPG devs are relatively small outfits that simply do not have the resources to create something of BG3's complexity, so it cannot be assumed as an expectation from the genre in the future.

 

[09philj]

This is stupid, manufactured, clickbait outrage.

Most other devs are not "complaining". They are largely complementing the scope of BG3 but also pointing out that most cRPG devs are relatively small outfits that simply do not have the resources to create something of BG3's complexity, so it cannot be assumed as an expectation from the genre in the future.

Yeah if you look at the major CRPGs of the 2010s they're mostly quite modest affairs, particularly those from the first half of the decade before Pillars Eternity demonstrated that they could be worth spending proper money on making. Like, Shadowrun: Dragonfall is brilliant, but it's also clearly made on a budget of about $8 that is being stretched to the absolute limit. Also despite the general ambition in all the CRPGs that came out in the 2010s, a lot of them have been memory holed. (I don't think I've seen anyone talk about Tyranny since 2016, for example)

 

[Phoenixmgs]

This is stupid, manufactured, clickbait outrage.

Most other devs are not "complaining". They are largely complementing the scope of BG3 but also pointing out that most cRPG devs are relatively small outfits that simply do not have the resources to create something of BG3's complexity, so it cannot be assumed as an expectation from the genre in the future.

People from big dev studios like Obsidian and Insomniac said that stuff. It wasn't other small devs saying it nor would anyone expect a small studio to make a game like BG3. My point is that even AAA studios with more resources than Larian wouldn't even attempt the scope of BG3. Devs don't even attempt this stuff because it's hard and they don't wanna do it, they just make the same games bigger and prettier, but they are still just the same games. Mercenaries on PS2/Xbox probably has the most open ended mission design of any open world game because devs don't care about doing that because that's hard.

 

[CriticalGaming]

People from big dev studios like Obsidian and Insomniac said that stuff. It wasn't other small devs saying it nor would anyone expect a small studio to make a game like BG3. My point is that even AAA studios with more resources than Larian wouldn't even attempt the scope of BG3. Devs don't even attempt this stuff because it's hard and they don't wanna do it, they just make the same games bigger and prettier, but they are still just the same games. Mercenaries on PS2/Xbox probably has the most open ended mission design of any open world game because devs don't care about doing that because that's hard.

Lets also be real. Most of these studios dont have the talent even if they had the time and money. Blizzard lost all its talent and now even when a game takes 7+ years to develop it still fucking sucks.

You take talent and put together a good team, then you dont need a decade to develop a game. Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Insomniac all have great teams making blockbuster high quality games that all come out complete and microtransaction free.

The Ubisofts, Ea's, and Activisons are not capable of making games like BG3 because they dont have good developers, not really. These publishers make games using massive teams of people figured between the group they'll figure it out. Not to mention they dont want creative games, they want games that are proven to work in the market. So even if there were good devs on the teams, the creativity is fucked.

How creative can you be making your 37th Call of Duty game? Oh boy how can we make the guns go bang this time!?

 

[Eacaraxe]

Paladin is an obvious class. Fighters are probably the simplest class to play and give some easy "in-your-face" stompiness, but Paladins give a little bit more versatility and angle. Then pick a half elf because of the CHA buff, they're generally versatile, and feel a bit more "cool" than a boring old human.

You would be surprised how many players want to play certain races for image. Some people want to imagine themselves as the main character, being tall, handsome, awesome etc. Dwarfs are short and ugly, Githyanki are weird and alien (etc.), etc. That really leaves humans, elves, and half-elves.

Not to mention paladins in 5e are actually pretty dope. Their nova potential with 5e smite mechanics, with or without GWM/PAM shenanigans, is ridiculous.

Hexblade isn't in the game (yet), but once they are I fully expect hexadin to be one of the most popular builds -- it already is in PnP. They're fun and can be damned thematic, but however good they can be roleplay-wise, they are Munchkin City. They're almost as bad as that one goofball niche 3.x paladin/monk/sacred fist build -- again, cool potential for RP but let's not kid ourselves about what it is mechanically.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I've finished the game and I have to say. The beginning is a bit of a slog until you get to ~level 5 and some options open up, the midgame is fantastic 10/10 material, and the ending goes downhill, but would be fine except that the game programming falls apart hard. Overall there's a lot of lack of polish, some of the controlling is janky, it's sometimes bad about explaining things, and is buggy as all hell. But the characters are generally fun and the plot is interesting. It's super campy at times and I'm all here for it, loved every moment of the Githyanki queen and the Power Rangers moment. A secret boss has his own custom music track which is just him and his sycophant dissing you to a pipe organ. But I'm going to have nightmares about the endgame and how I had to keep quitting out of the game to fix gamebreaking bugs.

Edit: Nearly forgot, your party is thirsty as hell. I recruited the druid in act 1 and talked to him the night you recruit him, didn't say a word to him for the rest of the game, then he propositions me for a three way at the end of the game. Like damn dude, chill. Yes, but chill.

 

[Dreiko]

A broken clock is right twice a day, and today is that day cause we have IGN being correct on a thing.

Interesting statistics. Didn't know half-elf paladin was so popular. Guess smashing enemies with different ice cream flavors helps?

I don't think this says that the races and classes are paired. Basically, we have no idea what classes they were, just that the most picked race was half elf, whatever the class.


Paladin has high charisma which is useful for dialogue so for people who wanna do the talking with their custom char but also not be weak or magical it's kinda the obvious choice.

 

[Eacaraxe]

I don't think this says that the races and classes are paired. Basically, we have no idea what classes they were, just that the most picked race was half elf, whatever the class.


Paladin has high charisma which is useful for dialogue so for people who wanna do the talking with their custom char but also not be weak or magical it's kinda the obvious choice.

I genuinely have no idea if the Elven Accuracy feat is in the game, but if it is, there's your culprit as to why that specific race/class combo is popular: smite crit fishing.

 

[Dreiko]

I genuinely have no idea if the Elven Accuracy feat is in the game, but if it is, there's your culprit as to why that specific race/class combo is popular: smite crit fishing.

No I think they just have some resistances to charm and sleep and get a free cantrip as well as mastery of elvish weaponry. Cantrips go off of Int so not a Paladin stat there.

Orcs have savagery (crits doing x3 instead of x2 damage) and diehard (survive at 1hp when you die once per rest) so they're easily the best Paladins imo, followed closely by the high HP dwarves.

 

[09philj]

I've finished the game and I have to say. The beginning is a bit of a slog until you get to ~level 5 and some options open up, the midgame is fantastic 10/10 material, and the ending goes downhill, but would be fine except that the game programming falls apart hard.

100% accurate DnD experience.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I hate this game now becuase its popular.

I don't know why I have this reaction and I don't like having this reaction, but its there.

Now this game is not cool anymore because the its now getting the attention of the mainstream, that means eventually the game will change to suit the mainstream. Its the Skyrim phenomenon all over again.

And also because this game is making Diablo 4 look bad and I hate that too I want both games to stand equally, but no people are just using this game to snipe at Diablo 4 and I hate that.

And yes I haven't played both games and I am just having this reaction and impulse because of some old Blizzard fanboy in me even though I like games like Baldur's Gate.

Yeah my mind is weird when it comes to this game right now, sorry if this post comes off as unhinged and unfocused.

 

[09philj]

I hate this game now becuase its popular.

I don't know why I have this reaction and I don't like having this reaction, but its there.

Now this game is not cool anymore because the its now getting the attention of the mainstream, that means eventually the game will change to suit the mainstream.

Already has. Larian is considerably influenced by contemporary mainstream TTRPG culture and the style and tone of their games is much closer to that than the CRPGs of the 90s and early 2000s which they resemble in presentation, in contrast to Obsidian's 2010s efforts Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny which hew much closer to the classics.

 

[Dreiko]

I hate this game now becuase its popular.

I don't know why I have this reaction and I don't like having this reaction, but its there.

Now this game is not cool anymore because the its now getting the attention of the mainstream, that means eventually the game will change to suit the mainstream. Its the Skyrim phenomenon all over again.

And also because this game is making Diablo 4 look bad and I hate that too I want both games to stand equally, but no people are just using this game to snipe at Diablo 4 and I hate that.

And yes I haven't played both games and I am just having this reaction and impulse because of some old Blizzard fanboy in me even though I like games like Baldur's Gate.

Yeah my mind is weird when it comes to this game right now, sorry if this post comes off as unhinged and unfocused.

D4 is a totally different experience, comparing the two is kinda odd. I think some of the patch choices and monetization and whatnot are bonkers but beyond that I wouldn't even think of comparing those games. BG3 has more in common with Dragon's Age Origins or something lol.


And hey if you don't like popular things, liking Diablo makes no sense.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Alright one thing I can say definitively

Baldur's Gate 3 getting this big mainstream attention and reception is going to be bad for it because once something goes mainstream its going to eventually lose what made it special to appeal to the mainstream as much as possible and we have examples:

After Skyrim became this big success it eventually resulted in the Bethesda we know today. The Bethesda that gave us Fallout 76, the Bethesda that tried to make its own app launcher, the Bethesda that tried to make mods be put behind a paywall

After Witcher 3 came out, Cyberpunk 2077 happened and the general fall from grace of CDProjeckt RED

Heck in some ways this happened with Resident Evil when 4 came out or Final Fantasy when 7 came out

Going Mainstream has never been good for video games imo

And I fear something will happen with Larian Studios in the future after they get drunk on all this success and mainstream attention.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

So, I have to ask, has anyone banged the bear yet?

 

[CriticalGaming]

So, I have to ask, has anyone banged the bear yet?

No but I rezzed Shadowheart and she had sex with me in return. So that was nice.

 

[Ag3ma]

People from big dev studios like Obsidian and Insomniac said that stuff. It wasn't other small devs saying it nor would anyone expect a small studio to make a game like BG3. My point is that even AAA studios with more resources than Larian wouldn't even attempt the scope of BG3. Devs don't even attempt this stuff because it's hard and they don't wanna do it, they just make the same games bigger and prettier, but they are still just the same games. Mercenaries on PS2/Xbox probably has the most open ended mission design of any open world game because devs don't care about doing that because that's hard.

Er, dude. Obsidian is not a "big developer": it's a sort of medium one. Larian is a much larger development studio than Obsidian.

Pretty much none of Obsidian's games in the last 20 years have generated the sort of sales to justify the description of AAA, and if they'd been making games on AAA budgets they'd have been bankrupt many years ago (actually, they were shaky for a while). There are rumours the latest might be AAA, if only because Microsoft recently bought them and may have shunted a lot of money their way.

Secondly, I repeat, these guys are not slagging BG3 off. Exactly the opposite. Their issue is that creating something like it requires resources that most studios who do these sorts of games simply do not have. Their concern is that if BG3 causes increased expectations from the genre that developers who make those games can't meet, then the whole genre takes damage. And you know what? We play those games. We do not want the devs to go bust or give up working on them, because then we don't have games.

This comes across as the usual bullshit where a bunch of emotionally immature fanbois get all hurt because someone isn't uncritically sucking the cock of the objet d'amour that they are obsessing over, and can't even listen to reasoned commentary without spitting out their dummies.

 

[Chimpzy]

Er, dude. Obsidian is not a "big developer": it's a sort of medium one. Larian is a much larger development studio than Obsidian.

I had to look that up, and you're not wrong. ~450 across 6 locations. That feels really weird to me, because in my head they're still the plucky underdog I visited some 20 years ago, some two dozen people working in a 19th century manor in downtown Ghent. I'm also wondering if Swen Vincke is still kind of an asshole.