Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[meiam]

Depends on what the Israeli response in the next few weeks are. Hamas is betting, rightfully so I'm guessing, that Israel is going full blood for the blood God, skulls for the skull throne crazy with their counter attack.
A thousand Israelis are dead, and the world is aghast. And then Israel turns around and kills....40, 50, 80,000 people in response. That's a huge victory for Hamas. Gaza is one of the highest density cities in the world, any ground invasion or air bombardment is going to have thousands of civilians dead with each strike, and Hamas is there with their phones ready to say "See the true face of the Jewish people!"

Remember Hamas wants to turn the world against Israel, and the actual leaders of Hamas are in Iran. They don't give a shit about Palestinian children. Or better yet, those children are more useful dead and on social media.

I think Israel is just hoping they'll mass flee to Egypt, this way they get everything they want, no more Palestinian in Gaza without having to genocide them. They'll probably just turn most of the city to rubble over the next week, not to inflict mass casualty but just to force people to leave.

I really don't think the world will care much about the number of Palestinian death if at the end they can finally put that conflict behind and move on and Hamas just gave Israel the perfect excuse to finally get on with it.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I'm curious where the "they can just flee to Egypt" thing comes from

Egypt's helping with the blockade. And zero point has Egypt ever cared about the Palestinians. It's a closed border

 

[SilentPony]

I'm curious where the "they can just flee to Egypt" thing comes from

Egypt's helping with the blockade. And zero point has Egypt ever cared about the Palestinians. It's a closed border

I think its more a "We'll cause a human stampede of refugees over the Egyptian border, and if they open up and mow them down, well it was the Egyptians who committed genocide, not us" kind of thinking.
Of course some Hamas will escape into Israel proper and this will lead to a few decades of terrorist attacks and bombing.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Of course some Hamas will escape into Israel proper and this will lead to a few decades of terrorist attacks and bombing.

Let's be frank here, it's Israel. Israel has been at war with at least somebody for over a century now, Palestine in particular. It's not like terrorist attacks wouldn't be happening all the time regardless.

 

[BrawlMan]

What is Hamas and why is it fighting with Israel in Gaza?

Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking over 250 hostages.

www.bbc.com

Biden confirms US citizens are among Hamas hostages in sharp condemnation of attacks on Israel | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden confirmed Tuesday that Americans are known to be among the hostages held by Hamas after its rampage over the weekend, delivering an emotional and angered denunciation of the terror and making clear he expected a forceful reprisal by Israel.

amp.cnn.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/10/israel-hamas-attack-war-death/

 

[Silvanus]

Let's be frank here, it's Israel. Israel has been at war with at least somebody for over a century now, Palestine in particular. It's not like terrorist attacks wouldn't be happening all the time regardless.

Feel compelled to point out that the state of Israel is less than a century old.

 

[Seanchaidh]

In the last few days Israel has experienced just a tiny amount of the suffering it regularly and with impunity inflicts on the indigenous population of Palestine. The ultimate responsibility for whatever crimes Hamas is supposed to have committed lies with the colonial occupation that it is resisting. It is absolutely unreasonable to expect that a caged, brutalized, and even poisoned population will be perfectly equanimous in its resistance against the society that has perpetrated a living hell upon them, especially when their attempts at peaceful resistance-- the great march of return, for example-- are met with bullets. Cynical supporters of Israel have asked where is the Palestinian MLK Jr. or Gandhi; the most likely answer to that is that the IDF killed them. Israel has closed off all non-violent avenues toward freedom for the Palestinian people, so what on earth should we expect but violence?

Gaza is a concentration camp that has been under blockade for more than a decade. Its sources of water are unfit for human consumption. Its sources of food are under the control of the Israeli government which has adopted a policy of malnutrition: the amount of calories needed by the population were calculated by Israel and then less food than that was sent; they spoke of putting the Palestinians "on a diet". The median age in Gaza is 18 years. And as if poisoned water and starvation were not enough, Israel periodically bombs Gaza-- sometimes it's a residential tower, sometimes it's an electrical power plant, sometimes it's an office building-- no doubt the base of operations for pesky journalists armed with cameras. Israel faces no consequences whatsoever for this cruel state of affairs; they enjoy the support of the United States after all. Israel violates international humanitarian law continuously with the blockade punctuated by discrete instances of direct intentional murder by bullet and bomb. What investment can we expect Palestinians to have in an international humanitarian law that has demonstrably failed to protect them? Morally, none. Tactically or strategically, it is not anyone's place to say but the Palestinians. And whatever monstrous violence might come out of Gaza, it is a monster of Israel's creation and to date but a faint echo of the brutality inflicted by Israel against Gaza even if we uncritically accept the whole of apartheid-justifying atrocity propaganda at face value.

 

[Chimpzy]

Meanwhile, in Italy

 

[tstorm823]

The median age in Gaza is 18 years.

I trust everyone's intelligence enough to understand Seanchaids hilarious levels of bias (though I know most of you choose to celebrate the blindness in this case, but that's your prerogative), but this point is subtle so worth pointing out.

The median age in Gaza is 18 years old, that is true, but it is being stated this way to make it seem like people are dying young, being poisoned, starved, and bombed by Israel. The life expectancy at birth in Gaza is about 73 years. That's notably less than in Israel, for sure, but it's like the 4th highest life expectancy in the Middle East, and notably higher than Egypt on its over side. In the last 20 years, Gaza has doubled in population while having a negative rate of immigration. It's not hard to do the math here: the median age is so low because they had a lot of children, and the children aren't dying in infancy. Which tells a very different story than the post I'm responding to.

 

[Gergar12]

US talking to Israel, Egypt about safe passage for Gaza civilians, White House says

The U.S. is talking with Israel and Egypt about the idea of a safe passage for Gaza civilians as Israel strikes the enclave after a deadly Hamas attack over the weekend, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

US talking to Israel, Egypt about safe passage for Gaza civilians, White House says

The U.S. is talking with Israel and Egypt about the idea of a safe passage for Gaza civilians as Israel strikes the enclave after a deadly Hamas attack over the weekend, U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

.

It's just not going to happen. The only way to evacuate the people of Gaza is for small groups to be spread out in multiple countries that are not in the middle east because no one wants them after all the history of what happens in countries that take them in. The situation, as far as I can tell, is snafu.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I'm curious where the "they can just flee to Egypt" thing comes from

Egypt's helping with the blockade. And zero point has Egypt ever cared about the Palestinians. It's a closed border

The Rafah border crossing has also been bombed in the last few days.

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

Not really a fan of their usual brand of lowbrow localised US humour, serious talks and interviews are much more informative and engaging, no jokes in this one thankfully.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Holy shit, Hamas apparently fucked up. They only wanted to kill a few, and only kidnap a few, but they face so little resistance, and their own men were so poorly trained they ended up killing about a 1000.

This makes a lot more sense. I was wondering why they did such a violent attack, and didn't expect hush appraisals. With the context that they messed up and did too well it makes a lot more sense. If Hamas falls, it won't be by Israel bombs, but very angry Palestines

Edit: the article

Israel's Netanyahu has little choice but to launch Gaza ground operation

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows that a ground operation is highly risky and complicated, but might have no other options.

www.al-monitor.com

 

[Silvanus]

Holy shit, Hamas apparently fucked up. They only wanted to kill a few, and only kidnap a few, but they face so little resistance, and their own men were so poorly trained they ended up killing about a 1000.

This makes a lot more sense. I was wondering why they did such a violent attack, and didn't expect hush appraisals. With the context that they messed up and did too well it makes a lot more sense. If Hamas falls, it won't be by Israel bombs, but very angry Palestines

Edit: the article

Israel's Netanyahu has little choice but to launch Gaza ground operation

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows that a ground operation is highly risky and complicated, but might have no other options.

www.al-monitor.com

Hmm, I don't think that's quite the right takeaway.

It's certainly true that some within Hamas have expressed surprise and shock at the extent of the operation. But that's more likely to be a result of a decentralised command/information structure. Senior figures in the group have said that other commanders didn't know the full extent, but that was a measure to ensure secrecy.

 

[BrawlMan]

Holy shit, Hamas apparently fucked up. They only wanted to kill a few, and only kidnap a few, but they face so little resistance, and their own men were so poorly trained they ended up killing about a 1000.

This makes a lot more sense. I was wondering why they did such a violent attack, and didn't expect hush appraisals. With the context that they messed up and did too well it makes a lot more sense. If Hamas falls, it won't be by Israel bombs, but very angry Palestines

Edit: the article

Israel's Netanyahu has little choice but to launch Gaza ground operation

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows that a ground operation is highly risky and complicated, but might have no other options.

www.al-monitor.com

They can still fuck off either way. All those people died due to extreme incompetence and negligence. If they really cared, they wouldn't have done this in the first place. "Oops, sorry" doesn't bring back the lives of all those civilians, nor make excuses.

For the record, my rant is not towards you. Just a heads-up. Thank you for the info.

 

[Bedinsis]

The life expectancy at birth in Gaza is about 73 years. That's notably less than in Israel, for sure, but it's like the 4th highest life expectancy in the Middle East, and notably higher than Egypt on its over side.

You've got your ranking wrong: of the 17 countries* in the Middle East, all but 5 (Yemen, Oman, Iraq, Syria, Egypt) has a higher life expectancy than Palestine(which also had a life expectancy of ~73).

*I've excluded the British overseas territory.

The only way to evacuate the people of Gaza is for small groups to be spread out in multiple countries that are not in the middle east because no one wants them after all the history of what happens in countries that take them in.

What are you referring to?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

You've got your ranking wrong: of the 17 countries* in the Middle East, all but 5 (Yemen, Oman, Iraq, Syria, Egypt) has a higher life expectancy than Palestine(which also had a life expectancy of ~73).

*I've excluded the British overseas territory.


What are you referring to?

Jordan and Egypt have had bad experiences with taking in Palestinians from that area, and they aren't the only countries.

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

 

[Worgen]