Mass shooting in Main

[Silvanus]

Sure. How?

Affordable housing initiatives, alongside rent caps. Investment in support services for mental health and addiction. A functional, properly funded welfare safety net, and one that provides connections to vocational training or getting back into education if required. And a shift towards a more representative, engaged and responsive political process, maybe through local councils/forae, MP's surgeries (or the US equivalent), and ranked-preference voting formats to eliminate disenfranchisement. All quite easily affordable through a modest tax on the wealthiest earners and the elimination of offshoring.

Truth is, crime is very often the outcome of desperation and destitution. The systems in place do not provide adequate avenues for people to flourish or engage with society, and people fall through the cracks. A government will never deal with this if they just crank up the severity of punishment whenever crime rears its head. It requires actual social engagement.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Affordable housing initiatives, alongside rent caps. Investment in support services for mental health and addiction. A functional, properly funded welfare safety net, and one that provides connections to vocational training or getting back into education if required. And a shift towards a more representative, engaged and responsive political process, maybe through local councils/forae, MP's surgeries (or the US equivalent), and ranked-preference voting formats to eliminate disenfranchisement. All quite easily affordable through a modest tax on the wealthiest earners and the elimination of offshoring.

Truth is, crime is very often the outcome of desperation and destitution. The systems in place do not provide adequate avenues for people to flourish or engage with society, and people fall through the cracks. A government will never deal with this if they just crank up the severity of punishment whenever crime rears its head. It requires actual social engagement.

Yeah alright. sign me up.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I never mentioned race. I don't think the problem is race, the problem is culture. That isn't to say different cultures are a problem in and of themselves.

America has a huge mixing of culture that happens no where else in the world. As a result you have problems that don't exist anywhere else in the world. Culture clash is a very real thing.

But you also have factors of America simply being too fucking big, and perhaps dare I say it....to "free". Because you can point at other countries with HUGE lands masses like Russia, China, Brazil, India. But each of those countries has either a scary government police enforcement, and/or also doesn't have it's population spread out the way America does. A lot of Brazil for example is forest and people aren't living out there. 96% of china's population is relegated to the Eastern portion of the country. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12265440/#:~:text=There are also 5 language,, northwest, and northern frontiers. So despite their giant populations, those populations are all gathered up and easier to police on top of a lack of cultural diversity.

So it's not a matter of dictating a "white" anything. It's about cutting down the portion of the populace expected to adhere to the same nationally regulated body that is simply spread too thin.


Ok but this is a forum about sharing thoughts an ideas, so even if an idea is bad it can still be worth sharing because it might help someone else have a better idea around it. Or we can just insult people to, that's fine.

Your solution of "states" is something we already have. 50 of them, plus a city sized administrative zone and several territories. For the most part, they entirely define their own laws subject to their own constitutions with only the barest of civil liberty oversite. How is your idea demonstrably different? What cultures are clashing? How is this cultural exchange through open borders inherently worse than, say, France and Belgium?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Your solution of "states" is something we already have. 50 of them, plus a city sized administrative zone and several territories. For the most part, they entirely define their own laws subject to their own constitutions with only the barest of civil liberty oversite. How is your idea demonstrably different? What cultures are clashing? How is this cultural exchange through open borders inherently worse than, say, France and Belgium?

I mean that was kind of the joke. Thanks for playing.

Do you really need to ask what cultures are clashing when the polticial right and left are bashing each other constantly? Policies cannot proceed cleanly when each political side is trying to battle not only each other but to also get the people to hate each other. Corrupt political figures stay in power because they keep the public bickering and battling each other over stupid bullshit.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I mean that was kind of the joke. Thanks for playing.

Do you really need to ask what cultures are clashing when the polticial right and left are bashing each other constantly? Policies cannot proceed cleanly when each political side is trying to battle not only each other but to also get the people to hate each other. Corrupt political figures stay in power because they keep the public bickering and battling each other over stupid bullshit.

That is normal in every country in the world, even Japan which consists of 97% Japanese people. (Seriously, why did you bring that stat up when you weren't talking about ethnicity?)

 

[Satinavian]

Do you really need to ask what cultures are clashing when the polticial right and left are bashing each other constantly? Policies cannot proceed cleanly when each political side is trying to battle not only each other but to also get the people to hate each other. Corrupt political figures stay in power because they keep the public bickering and battling each other over stupid bullshit.

Left and Right are not cultures. And that particular version of your country where every political topic is squeezed into the same two sides bickering is a consequence of your constitution, nothing more.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Left and Right are not cultures. And that particular version of your country where every political topic is squeezed into the same two sides bickering is a consequence of your constitution, nothing more.

Similar things are noted in other countries with different set-ups, though.

 

[Satinavian]

Similar things are noted in other countries with different set-ups, though.

Rarely to the same extend.

Furthermore, countries that don't do this "first-past-the-post" thing tend tend to develop a whole bunch of parties of which any subset agrees on some things and disagrees on others. I think that this generally matches much more what people in a country really think. Opinions are diverse. But when the political system gives the majority all the power, people are driven to either vote for whoever is in power or whoever is most likely to kick them out, naturally producing a two party system absorbing all the smaller contenders. If you then put on grievances and tribalism, well, you get what the US currently has.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Rarely to the same extend.

Furthermore, countries that don't do this "first-past-the-post" thing tend tend to develop a whole bunch of parties of which any subset agrees on some things and disagrees on others. I think that this generally matches much more what people in a country really think. Opinions are diverse. But when the political system gives the majority all the power, people are driven to either vote for whoever is in power or whoever is most likely to kick them out, naturally producing a two party system absorbing all the smaller contenders. If you then put on grievances and tribalism, well, you get what the US currently has.

Living in Australia, we don't have first past the post, and end up with two factions, the ALP and the LNP/Nat coalition, which fall into the centrist-right and right-wing thing fairly readily. Minor parties like the Greens rarely do anything.

 

[Cheetodust]

Totally! I remember when gun control in my country got 10 million people killed. Or like that one other country with gun control where the government murdered millions of its own citizens, that I'm sure you have an example of.

It's awful. Ireland has no guns and 10 million people were killed and now our population is negative 4 million.

 

[Gergar12]

Affordable housing initiatives, alongside rent caps. Investment in support services for mental health and addiction. A functional, properly funded welfare safety net, and one that provides connections to vocational training or getting back into education if required. And a shift towards a more representative, engaged and responsive political process, maybe through local councils/forae, MP's surgeries (or the US equivalent), and ranked-preference voting formats to eliminate disenfranchisement. All quite easily affordable through a modest tax on the wealthiest earners and the elimination of offshoring.

Truth is, crime is very often the outcome of desperation and destitution. The systems in place do not provide adequate avenues for people to flourish or engage with society, and people fall through the cracks. A government will never deal with this if they just crank up the severity of punishment whenever crime rears its head. It requires actual social engagement.

You are not getting that through Congress.

 

[Silvanus]

You are not getting that through Congress.

Piecemeal, and over a number of years, a lot of it is feasible. Whether there's the political will or not is another question.

But that's besides the point. "Increase the severity of punishments" is easy enough to get through Congress, but it doesn't fucking work. We're talking about the right approaches, not the ones that'll likely happen imminently.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Affordable housing initiatives, alongside rent caps. Investment in support services for mental health and addiction. A functional, properly funded welfare safety net, and one that provides connections to vocational training or getting back into education if required. And a shift towards a more representative, engaged and responsive political process, maybe through local councils/forae, MP's surgeries (or the US equivalent), and ranked-preference voting formats to eliminate disenfranchisement. All quite easily affordable through a modest tax on the wealthiest earners and the elimination of offshoring.

Truth is, crime is very often the outcome of desperation and destitution. The systems in place do not provide adequate avenues for people to flourish or engage with society, and people fall through the cracks. A government will never deal with this if they just crank up the severity of punishment whenever crime rears its head. It requires actual social engagement.

Your Team Left always blocks affordable housing initiatives and rent control doesn't work. Getting people back into our broken education system that just puts them into debt?

 

[Dreiko]

They just need to reopen the institutions for the insane that Raegan closed and didn't replace and allow for forced institutionalization. If you're fine being homeless and don't live in like, the jungle or the woods or a mountain or something, but in a garbage bin in the middle of a large city with normal housing in it, you need to be in an asylum. And people who are actually willing to take the help and get off the streets and off drugs should get all the money that eventually imprisoning them will cost us in the form of wellfare help so they can get a job and be normal people again.

 

[Silvanus]

Your Team Left always blocks affordable housing initiatives

"My team"? I don't have a "team". Try to approach the conversation with more consideration than tribal mudslinging at a football match.

and rent control doesn't work. Getting people back into our broken education system that just puts them into debt?

The education system wouldn't be broken if it received investment. Students wouldn't be mired in debt if loans were forgiven. Rent control can work quite easily with caps and regulations. All of these things are fixable.

 

[thebobmaster]

They just need to reopen the institutions for the insane that Raegan closed and didn't replace and allow for forced institutionalization. If you're fine being homeless and don't live in like, the jungle or the woods or a mountain or something, but in a garbage bin in the middle of a large city with normal housing in it, you need to be in an asylum. And people who are actually willing to take the help and get off the streets and off drugs should get all the money that eventually imprisoning them will cost us in the form of wellfare help so they can get a job and be normal people again.

OK, boomer.

...No, seriously, anyone who thinks people choose to be homeless rather than have a job at least has a boomer mentality. And contrasting "homeless people" with "normal people" is a whole other level of horrifying that I don't even want to get into. Just out of curiosity, have you actually known anyone who was homeless at one point, or do you get all your information on them from news media?

 

[Dreiko]

OK, boomer.

...No, seriously, anyone who thinks people choose to be homeless rather than have a job at least has a boomer mentality. And contrasting "homeless people" with "normal people" is a whole other level of horrifying that I don't even want to get into. Just out of curiosity, have you actually known anyone who was homeless at one point, or do you get all your information on them from news media?

Yeah, weird uncle I was warned to be nothing like growing up. He basically did 20 due to the 3 strike laws back decades ago cause he kept robbing houses to feed his drug habit. He was in trouble with the law all his life since he was a teenager basically, so I was raised very anti-drug due to the impact he had on my folks.

There are some people among the homeless who won't go to the shelters because they demand you not do drugs, and the rest like I said should receive wellfare, so if you're right and they all wanna get off the streets...cool? How is there any conflict here? Do you think when I said they all should receive wellfare, I only meant some?

 

[Gergar12]

Piecemeal, and over a number of years, a lot of it is feasible. Whether there's the political will or not is another question.

But that's besides the point. "Increase the severity of punishments" is easy enough to get through Congress, but it doesn't fucking work. We're talking about the right approaches, not the ones that'll likely happen imminently.

Piecemeal won't work. Do you think billionaires will let you spend millions to tens of billions on this? They have lobbying firms, and lawyers to deal with that.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

"My team"? I don't have a "team". Try to approach the conversation with more consideration than tribal mudslinging at a football match.

The education system wouldn't be broken if it received investment. Students wouldn't be mired in debt if loans were forgiven. Rent control can work quite easily with caps and regulations. All of these things are fixable.

You're for voting for democrats over republicans and dems are the ones that keep voting down affordable housing initiatives. I don't have a team because they both suck and I don't vote for either of them.

I meant the college system, and that isn't broken because of investment, how much more fucking money do you need going to colleges? The problem with colleges is that it's the least efficient way to learn anything, that's what you have to fix. I don't have a problem with giving people a "free" couple years of tuition for whatever school but not at the ridiculous prices they are now. 2 years should be more than enough to learn most jobs/trades and if you want to go into something very specific and takes several years to learn than that's on the person to pay for that (but at of course non-ridiculous prices). It's like America can't do public healthcare at the current price point of healthcare, there just isn't the money, everything is so overpriced. Not that I'm against public healthcare but it doesn't magically fix the system either. With you guys, it's always we need money to go here or there when that's not the solution most of the time. The biggest fix for grade/high school funding is just even distributing money vs adding more.

 

[Silvanus]

Piecemeal won't work. Do you think billionaires will let you spend millions to tens of billions on this? They have lobbying firms, and lawyers to deal with that.

That's funny, because reforms have been passed piecemeal already. So it clearly is possible.

Frustratingly slow, but that's the nature of US politics.

You're for voting for democrats over republicans and dems are the ones that keep voting down affordable housing initiatives. I don't have a team because they both suck and I don't vote for either of them.

Preferring a lesser evil doesn't make them my "team"; I dislike the Democrats and would drop them like a sack of shit if a better, credible alternative came along.

I meant the college system, and that isn't broken because of investment, how much more fucking money do you need going to colleges? The problem with colleges is that it's the least efficient way to learn anything, that's what you have to fix. I don't have a problem with giving people a "free" couple years of tuition for whatever school but not at the ridiculous prices they are now. 2 years should be more than enough to learn most jobs/trades and if you want to go into something very specific and takes several years to learn than that's on the person to pay for that (but at of course non-ridiculous prices). It's like America can't do public healthcare at the current price point of healthcare, there just isn't the money, everything is so overpriced. Not that I'm against public healthcare but it doesn't magically fix the system either. With you guys, it's always we need money to go here or there when that's not the solution most of the time. The biggest fix for grade/high school funding is just even distributing money vs adding more.

If you can't offer something at the current price point... then there's your problem.

Healthcare and education are both structured in such a way as to maximise costs. Its in their very foundation. Hence why the US spends more on healthcare than most other countries, yet still receives abysmal coverage lagging behind those same countries. Address the structural price gouging, invest properly. Other countries do this. Its perfectly possible.