The thing that pisses me off about Ricky Gervais is he’s cultivated this image of being the only person who’ll speak truth to power in Hollywood and elsewhere about its skullduggery and dark secrets but then dances around it like he’s trying to edge everyone involved and then just leaving you hanging. Like if he really knows all the shit he proclaims to know, I just want him to find the nearest set of news cameras and start naming names, places and dates. Just stop with the court jester bullshit.
Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)
- Thread starter Hawki
- Start date
OTOH, as if that would make any difference. They have a way of burying this kind of shit in broad daylight and making anyone attempting to shine a light on it look like a fool. There’s too much money and power involved to make headway there and nothing will change unless victims start coming forward en mass like Me Too or something.
Peacemaker
(Own copy)
Rating: 8.5 /10 - James Gunn's best so far
Plot and stuff:
Following on from the events of The Suicide Squad the series follows Peacemaker who was seemingly left for dead that film along with some of the subordinates of Amanda Waller who lets say strongly objected to her plans and worked against them in that film as they're now a black ops team working to take down a treat called "The Butterflies" which threatens humanity.
Thoughts (mostly Non spoiler):
Know this, I really didn't like The Suicide Squad as much as others. I'd even say it was worse than the David Ayer one (at least the extended cut), that film felt too James Gunn going as close to Troma as he could and going full weird and gore for shock value / weirding out value. There were things to I like about that film but it would have required stripping a a fair bit of the stuff and retooling it to make it actually work better as there's core bits that are good but it's the other stuff wrapping round it that was off putting for me (and to be clear I've read most of New 52 suicide squad so fucked up shit isn't an issue it's just James Gunn's felt like trying to be an edgelord for edgelords sake rather than actually being grim dark and grimey as such.)
Now I've spent a paragraph slamming the film that's a prequel to this serious let me say, Peacemaker is not that. Peacemaker is seemingly James Gun nearly perfecting his formula as such for Superhero story telling with seemingly more effective use of gore being shock value when it's meant to be shocking not just for the sake of it but also comedic "WTF dude" when it needs to be too and managing to differentiate the two well. The story fleshes out Peacemaker into a more 3 dimensional character and turns what was a more unlikeable villain due to events in the film into a pretty sympathetic sort of anti-hero verging on full fledged hero in his own right.
In terms of issues with it, my main issues are two things:
1. What I'm calling Gunn dialogue - People know of the fairly now infamous Wheddon dialogue, full of quips and often taking the piss out of it's own concept. Gunn dialogue is something I'm noticing appears in a lot of his stuff recently that is characters being deliberate assholes to other characters with the goal of upsetting or pissing them off and being jackasses or acting like internet trolls would to people. It's deliberately mocking characters or belittling them to make one character seem more like an asshole. It also feels like almost filler stuff. It's not really entertaining and most of the time it doesn't serve a purpose beyond trying to emphasise more how much of an asshole a character is.
2. So many plot threads just left open or things just not explained. There feels like a lot of little bits set up in the show which never come to a pay off or never fully pay off at the end and I get that Gunn is probably hoping for a 2nd series of this where they could be better paid off but I feel like there could have been more satisfying bits such that this could work as more of an ending in it's own right with a potential 2nd season picking back up rather than leaving some bits open and some arcs only near completion not actually completed.
Some things worthy of serious praise
So the show does a really great job of portraying Peacemaker as a tragic result of things that happened to him with him accidentally killing his brother in a silly fight their dad arranged to have others in the trailer park bet on and his brother suffering a seizure after being punched by Peacemaker. I do feel they could have gone a bit more into why it showed Peacemaker being made to kill a tied up man by his Dad (what had the guy actually done or was accused of doing etc). I liked the idea of showing how much of an asshole his dad actually was and is and how they don't see eye to eye but Peacemaker not being an asshole was still trying to make things work and make his Dad proud by fighting crime (the one thing he and his dad agree on is bad).
I really enjoyed the symbolism being used round the white supremacist group worshiping "The white Dragon" which for anyone whose heard about the real life hate groups will realise is sort of a reference to I think it's the Grand Dragon who is head of said group. Also the symbolism of The White Dragon punching Peacemakers pet Eagle being very symbolism of the idea of said groups being unamerican.
The show also feels like James Gunn looked at a number of criticism often thrown at media and went "Here's my answer" for example a common issue with "girl boss characters" and one I believe was initially levelled at this show early on is the "How is that 120lb chick throwing round 300 lb guys like he's a sack of dirty washing nothing more?" with the introduction of the barely 5 foot tall character Judo Master who just runs round schooling the characters because as with Judo he knows how to use peoples size and power against them as such.
I do feel a few tricks were missed though: Personally I'd have liked detective Song to have survived because damn do I kind of want a spinoff show with her leading investigations into Supervillains or something. I feel like Judo Master they spent a lot of time setting stuff up only for the end to not really pay it off as the character runs round for the last 2 episodes as like a C or D plot only to turn up after the battle is long done and shed a tear then eat a flaming hot cheeto. I feel like Gunn should have carried on the running Vigilante doesn't take off his mask gag by having him still refusing to do so even after everyone knows who he is or his compromise being having his visor now flip up or something rather than mostly abandoning wearing the mask, just to sort of play into the idea of how Vigilante doesn't have an arc being his arc, he doesn't grow or evolve he is like a constant factor to work to show sort of where Peacemaker started from. Gunn set up Economos returning to Belle Reave prison to seemingly steal some files but never really paid off or explained that either. Also I feel like Gunn should have added one last bit to Peacemaker's arc by showing the shot of Hardcourt learning to walk again then sort of zooming out to show through the hospital window Peacemaker watching it happen then maybe walking towards a therapy centre area because also the whole "Peacemaker has PTSD" plotline doesn't really get resolved if anything it just escalates later on.
I do feel like there was some nice set up and payoff moments like early on Peacemaker now out of hospital and prison wanting to get laid and it showing how it sticks round with the chick after (up until she literally attacks him and is revealed as a dangerous Meta) contrasted with Peacemaker's father shagging some chick then immediately getting up after to leave and hunt down Peacemaker.
It also felt odd that quite left wing James Gunn basically made Peacemaker a character who is a product of the past but kind of goes "And maybe that's not a bad thing because that stuff from the past isn't bad" which I'm shocked I've seen little outrage about from the side normally claiming to be "progressive"
(Own copy)
Rating: 8.5 /10 - James Gunn's best so far
Plot and stuff:
Following on from the events of The Suicide Squad the series follows Peacemaker who was seemingly left for dead that film along with some of the subordinates of Amanda Waller who lets say strongly objected to her plans and worked against them in that film as they're now a black ops team working to take down a treat called "The Butterflies" which threatens humanity.
Thoughts (mostly Non spoiler):
Know this, I really didn't like The Suicide Squad as much as others. I'd even say it was worse than the David Ayer one (at least the extended cut), that film felt too James Gunn going as close to Troma as he could and going full weird and gore for shock value / weirding out value. There were things to I like about that film but it would have required stripping a a fair bit of the stuff and retooling it to make it actually work better as there's core bits that are good but it's the other stuff wrapping round it that was off putting for me (and to be clear I've read most of New 52 suicide squad so fucked up shit isn't an issue it's just James Gunn's felt like trying to be an edgelord for edgelords sake rather than actually being grim dark and grimey as such.)
Now I've spent a paragraph slamming the film that's a prequel to this serious let me say, Peacemaker is not that. Peacemaker is seemingly James Gun nearly perfecting his formula as such for Superhero story telling with seemingly more effective use of gore being shock value when it's meant to be shocking not just for the sake of it but also comedic "WTF dude" when it needs to be too and managing to differentiate the two well. The story fleshes out Peacemaker into a more 3 dimensional character and turns what was a more unlikeable villain due to events in the film into a pretty sympathetic sort of anti-hero verging on full fledged hero in his own right.
In terms of issues with it, my main issues are two things:
1. What I'm calling Gunn dialogue - People know of the fairly now infamous Wheddon dialogue, full of quips and often taking the piss out of it's own concept. Gunn dialogue is something I'm noticing appears in a lot of his stuff recently that is characters being deliberate assholes to other characters with the goal of upsetting or pissing them off and being jackasses or acting like internet trolls would to people. It's deliberately mocking characters or belittling them to make one character seem more like an asshole. It also feels like almost filler stuff. It's not really entertaining and most of the time it doesn't serve a purpose beyond trying to emphasise more how much of an asshole a character is.
2. So many plot threads just left open or things just not explained. There feels like a lot of little bits set up in the show which never come to a pay off or never fully pay off at the end and I get that Gunn is probably hoping for a 2nd series of this where they could be better paid off but I feel like there could have been more satisfying bits such that this could work as more of an ending in it's own right with a potential 2nd season picking back up rather than leaving some bits open and some arcs only near completion not actually completed.
Some things worthy of serious praise
- The intro trailer bit I posted really does showcase the show in a weird way in that it is inherently silly in a number of ways from some of the premise to the happenings etc and over the top. BUT just like the dance number it's played seriously, no-one is laughing and making silly jokes about how stupid it all is, there's no nudge nudge wink wink to the audience. The show trusts the audience enough to be able to see this is silly but basically says "Yeh it's going to be silly in places but try to get into it as enjoy"
- The cast is great, I'd say Annie Chang is a real stand out which is saying something with how good the rest of the cast are but she just seemed to bring something more to her performances and an almost impressive intensity to them even when her character pivots somewhat later in the show she gives a different but equally intense performance.
- James Gunn's use of musical score, I think few people really integrate musical scores quite the way James Gunn does such that it feels far more organic
- Managing to make Peacemaker a far more complex character that works so well.
- The imagery and symbolism in parts. I mean Gunn has managed some nice scenes before like The Suicide Squad walking in the rain but that felt beautiful but for the sake of beauty while here he pulls off some scenes that really feel like they have symbolism to them and more meaning.
So the show does a really great job of portraying Peacemaker as a tragic result of things that happened to him with him accidentally killing his brother in a silly fight their dad arranged to have others in the trailer park bet on and his brother suffering a seizure after being punched by Peacemaker. I do feel they could have gone a bit more into why it showed Peacemaker being made to kill a tied up man by his Dad (what had the guy actually done or was accused of doing etc). I liked the idea of showing how much of an asshole his dad actually was and is and how they don't see eye to eye but Peacemaker not being an asshole was still trying to make things work and make his Dad proud by fighting crime (the one thing he and his dad agree on is bad).
I really enjoyed the symbolism being used round the white supremacist group worshiping "The white Dragon" which for anyone whose heard about the real life hate groups will realise is sort of a reference to I think it's the Grand Dragon who is head of said group. Also the symbolism of The White Dragon punching Peacemakers pet Eagle being very symbolism of the idea of said groups being unamerican.
The show also feels like James Gunn looked at a number of criticism often thrown at media and went "Here's my answer" for example a common issue with "girl boss characters" and one I believe was initially levelled at this show early on is the "How is that 120lb chick throwing round 300 lb guys like he's a sack of dirty washing nothing more?" with the introduction of the barely 5 foot tall character Judo Master who just runs round schooling the characters because as with Judo he knows how to use peoples size and power against them as such.
I do feel a few tricks were missed though: Personally I'd have liked detective Song to have survived because damn do I kind of want a spinoff show with her leading investigations into Supervillains or something. I feel like Judo Master they spent a lot of time setting stuff up only for the end to not really pay it off as the character runs round for the last 2 episodes as like a C or D plot only to turn up after the battle is long done and shed a tear then eat a flaming hot cheeto. I feel like Gunn should have carried on the running Vigilante doesn't take off his mask gag by having him still refusing to do so even after everyone knows who he is or his compromise being having his visor now flip up or something rather than mostly abandoning wearing the mask, just to sort of play into the idea of how Vigilante doesn't have an arc being his arc, he doesn't grow or evolve he is like a constant factor to work to show sort of where Peacemaker started from. Gunn set up Economos returning to Belle Reave prison to seemingly steal some files but never really paid off or explained that either. Also I feel like Gunn should have added one last bit to Peacemaker's arc by showing the shot of Hardcourt learning to walk again then sort of zooming out to show through the hospital window Peacemaker watching it happen then maybe walking towards a therapy centre area because also the whole "Peacemaker has PTSD" plotline doesn't really get resolved if anything it just escalates later on.
I do feel like there was some nice set up and payoff moments like early on Peacemaker now out of hospital and prison wanting to get laid and it showing how it sticks round with the chick after (up until she literally attacks him and is revealed as a dangerous Meta) contrasted with Peacemaker's father shagging some chick then immediately getting up after to leave and hunt down Peacemaker.
It also felt odd that quite left wing James Gunn basically made Peacemaker a character who is a product of the past but kind of goes "And maybe that's not a bad thing because that stuff from the past isn't bad" which I'm shocked I've seen little outrage about from the side normally claiming to be "progressive"
I did like The Suicide Squad infinitely more than Suicide Squad. Sad it wasn't a huge hit.
As for this show, for me, it is a great example of a passion project. Someone really wanted to make this. I compare it to something like Kenobi (likely have done so in this thread) which was product. The people making is didn't seem to have any idea who he was... just that he plants memberberries so, lets reap some.
I hear a plan in the works, or not, is rather than PM2, it will be a series about Amanda Waller. I'd write I hope not except, we may get surprised.
In the Movies thread, I just posed about The Artifice Girl (2022) on Tubi free TV. A+
Lean, well done story telling by writer director Franklin Ritch. Just checked him hour and hHe hasn't made a lot.
I just watched his 13 min. short, "Bedridden" on youtube. Really, really worth a watch.
8.5/10.
The whole thing:
Looks like he edited this as well....EDIT: And wrote and directed and it is a fun bit of whimsy and better than most...
Also on Youtube, doesn't really play by anyone's rules. Batman-Project Cadmus (The Death of Ace)
Last edited:
The Afterparty: S2: Ep1-4: Entertaining / Great
The morning after a wedding, the groom is found dead in his bed. The initial suspect is the bride, but as details come to the surface, we learn more of those in attendance had motives. A recently ex-detective is brought in to sleuth-out the facts and identify the killer.
Same framing as the first season, each episode is told in a uniquely stylized manner as each person under scrutiny tells their side of the story in an elaborate and humorous game of Clue. It's not good, but it IS fun. Basically, the whole premise is just ridiculous enough that you are able to throw credibility out the window immediately and just enjoy what they offer.
The morning after a wedding, the groom is found dead in his bed. The initial suspect is the bride, but as details come to the surface, we learn more of those in attendance had motives. A recently ex-detective is brought in to sleuth-out the facts and identify the killer.
Same framing as the first season, each episode is told in a uniquely stylized manner as each person under scrutiny tells their side of the story in an elaborate and humorous game of Clue. It's not good, but it IS fun. Basically, the whole premise is just ridiculous enough that you are able to throw credibility out the window immediately and just enjoy what they offer.
Kizazi Moto - An anthology series down by an all African cast on all fronts. Everything. It's amazing. Some shorts I liked more than others, but none of them I found bad. Each short is 16 minutes. Disney barely promoted this thing during the summer! I didn't know about it, until a few weeks ago on someone else's YouTube channel. WTF is wrong with you Disney? Forget your Marvel and Star Wars shit, and start promoting more original programming like this!
I'm a little confused why you called the special "great" if you criticized it so much?
But honestly Gervais can go f*** himself. Yes, I'm a little salty because he is one of many male comics I used to love who hit middle or old age and have become effective right-wing mouthpieces. Over-privileged out of touch whiney bitches complaining about twitter and the wokes.
Bill Maher, Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais, BIll Burr- these men helped define my entire sense of humor as a young man. But, man, that was like 20 years ago lol.
I actually auditioned for Maher's show once when he did that, inviting non-celebs on the show, and met him. I one saw Chris Rock test out very early versions of what would be in one of his greatest HBO specials. I used to be able to recite entire episodes of Seinfeld the way fans of Rocky Horror Picture Show can say and sing the whole movie. I was at multiple show of the same tour where Burr famously told off a booing Philly crowd (needless to say, I was not surprised by any of that incident). And when the US office came out and it caught on and I heard the British version was more hardcore, I was blown away about how true that is.
Gervais tapped into something really unique and special with his Office and then managed to do it again with Extras. Those two shows made him one of the greatest artists of our generation in my eyes.
And then everything else he's done or said since was insufferable, annoying, and hack. Then it just devolved into insulting, and that type of internet gamr dude-bro who insults people, punching down, then whines that you aren't laughing and praising him. I was dumbfounded when folks praised his Golden Globes jokes- as if that stuff wasn't vetted by the network and Hollywood Foriegn Press. It's like when people used to praise the comics at the White House Correspondents dinner for making fun of the politicians and press- oh please, this is hardly Lenny Bruce lol.
It is always sad when one of your heroes goes lame, and I'm just made it happened to like and entire generation of an entire art form. And yeah it's mostly the dudes but Sarah Silverman and obviously Roseanne Barr can stfu too, already (youngins can't understand how actually brilliant and welcome Barr was when she first hit the comedy scene and now she is only known for being a fucking lunatic).
Though for me the OG comic-turned-bad was Dennis Miller, the love-him-or-hate-him-trying-to-sound-smart guy. I loved him, for I too was a pretentious little shit. And he was also genuinely funny at one time. But then 9/11 happened and some people went insane genocidal and he became a war-hawk asshole.
Ok thanks for letting me get that off my chest...
I liked it but I also think it is one of those shows that benefitted from the context of its time. It's an extremely turn-of-the-millenium show.
My sister and here bf are actually watching it- she had seen it, he had not- and they're enjoying it. I think one's age matters a lot.
I myself watched it shortly after the whole thing had aired and I very much enjoyed it. I think in terms of "objective" quality it definitely peaked at the end of season 3- it really just lost a lot of heart and focus after they graduated high school, and then the actor that played Xander had real-life problems that kept his screen time short.
That said, there are individual brilliant episodes in the back-half like the famous silent and musical ones. I appreciate what they were trying to do with the sister though it had mixed results, and the dragging on with the whole Angel thread and its spinoff stretched everything too far to make it all as satisfying as the earlier seasons.
Either way, I think it's pretty amazing they took an absurd premise and made a generational pop culture milestone.
Wife and I watched the first season because of the cast and premise and we kinda liked it but felt like it never really quite met its promise. Then I read that season 2 is significantly worse so we didn't bother.
Oh man... what a wild ride we had with this show.
I am normally very much not a fan of "hate-watching" but boy did I hate-watch this show, especially the last season.
I'll admit a lot of this is political- I just hate the idea of monarchy and I always resented the attention to and presence of the royal family all my life. It blew my mind that Americans- the country that fought a whole freaking war to not have to care about the stupid British monarchy- cared about the British monarchy!
And this series is effectively a propaganda campaign for them. Oh, the sacrifice and duty of this heroic queen.. please.
But the presentation is top quality and I'm a sucker for some acting and cinematography and this show was always a feast for the eyes.
I mean, even in this last episode when they lined up the little action figured representing the plan for her funeral, and the stupid bagpipe music and all that- gorgeous, I thought, while also hoping someone would blow up Buckingham Palace.
Basically I was able to get into the characters by not seeing them as the real-life people, they were fictional TV people to me.
The premise of the episode where Margaret dies made me laugh my nuts off- when they teased us with some scandalous act that young Elizabeth did at this party I thought "what, did she dance with a black guy or something" and it was that, lol, omg hilarious. But also like we're supposed to admire her sacrifice that she had to give up having innocent fun to be queen- well, that just further proves there shouldn't be a monarchy wtf.
The Tony Blair episode was fascinating- for those of us that remember 9/11 and the Iraq invasion it's just a wild thing to see reflections on that time and I never see it done well to my satisfaction to I'm not mad at the show for failing as well. Blair is such a perfect cipher on which to project one own's politics that I would recommend this episode as the first one to watch for anyone interested in the show to gauge if they can handle the show's confusing, frustrating, funny political perspective.
I didn't call it "great;" I called it "What You'd Expect OUT OF Great." My personal scale is always "Something" out of ( / ) "Great." Numeric scales tend to lend an idea of objectivity which I don' think conforms well to the subjective nature of entertainment. I started Gervais' new special out of curiosity, but I effectively got exactly what I expected, thus was underwhelmed and unimpressed.
It's trash comedy that isn't nearly as clever as it thinks it is, but it's a fun, dismissible half hour from time to time. I just like seeing how differently each character (of which there are several) portrays their side of the story.
Oh.. I see, the / is a fraction not an "or." Gotcha fair enough.
In a way, I'm glad we never had to find out how Bill Hicks would've turned out with age.
I was never a fan of Bill Hicks, but you're right; I think he'd be absolutely grating in today's climate as he'd have TOO much material to work with in his mind. Like, I could completely see one of his shows turning into a brawl resulting in multiple arrests, if not his own.
I mean... my guess he'd have turned out like Lenny Bruce. When we talk about him as the ultimate trend-setter for comedians, we must include his sad decline.
Ricky Gervais is not a right-wing mouthpiece. Just because someone's "Venn diagram" of opinions/takes/jokes overlaps into a few things that the right-wing usually has the same opinion on, doesn't make that person right-wing. People will agree and disagree with other people and it's like impossible that you'll meet a person that doesn't have the same opinion on X amount of things. Everyone that says just one little thing the Right goes on and on about gets labeled right-wing and it's really annoying. This extremism isn't good, you can't just tell people to fuck off because they said one little thing you don't like/agree with.
I haven't seen too much of Gervais' standup but I've seen the last 2 since they're on Netflix (easy access) and they're fine (probably 6-7/10). Based on those 2, I don't think Gervais is a great standup comic (some pretty funny stuff here and there), though much of his other stuff I love like The Office and Extras and the Karl Pilkington stuff (though I'm assuming Gervais didn't have that big a hand in that).
> Just because someone's "Venn diagram" of opinions/takes/jokes overlaps into a few things that the right-wing usually has the same opinion on, doesn't make that person right-wing.
Yes it does. At least, it does now. Opinions and speech don't come in vacuums, there is context.
Yes it does. At least, it does now. Opinions and speech don't come in vacuums, there is context.
I wrote earlier that trying to explain to my wife why there even is a monarchy and what they actually do was the hardest thing about it!
But so many tidbits of history. Some before my time. Others, I knew of and had forgotten.
The abdication and the likely hood that the former King was a Nazi collaborator who should have been hung. A fog so thick London was brought to its knees. A mudslide that killed dozens of school children. The Irish conflict and the assassination of a family member. A guy breaks into the Queen's bedroom for a chat. And so much more.
ITMT: the Dianna stuff really brought me back. My daughter, now a grown up business woman, was born right around the time of her death. Yikes.