The Defending Joe Biden Mega-Thread

[Trunkage]

So what you are saying is that I just happened to live in an outlier area where the city I lived in had looting and also the 2 the cities adjacent to my city also had looting? Or maybe your stat isn't super accurate (like people posting crime numbers and saying how great everything is). Now you're complaining that normal looting is tainting BLM looting numbers? Come the fuck on. At no time in my life were mall entrances and expressway exit/on ramps blocked nor was there ever the National Guard stationed at the Walmart. A group of random people shoplifting on an average Tuesday was not contributing to BLM looting numbers.

Yep. Most of the looting happened at least a few blocks away. Not at protests. The 3.7% I quote is the best guess, and includes all types of looting. Eg. There were Youtubers who had nothing to do with BLM who filmed themselves looting because they thought they could get away with it while the police were distracted. Another example is the two people who were murdered by the Boogalooo boys. This happened halfway across the city from the protests and the Boogaloos are anti-BLM. But those deaths still get recorded in the BLM death stats

You saying that there was looting in three cities near you is A) still possible with 3.7%. That's still a hundred cities across the US. B) this tells me nothing about who actually did the looting. C) I'm not claiming BLM did no looting. D) I remember Target and Walmart complaining about rises in shoplifting in 2020.... When all shoplifting went down by something like 50%. I do not trust anything they claim E) Unless you are less than 30 years old, you've had tanks roll down streets to keep citizens quite F) I don't know why you think it would be random

I don't know where you live, and I don't expect you to tell a stranger. You're going to have to research it

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yep. Most of the looting happened at least a few blocks away. Not at protests. The 3.7% I quote is the best guess, and includes all types of looting. Eg. There were Youtubers who had nothing to do with BLM who filmed themselves looting because they thought they could get away with it while the police were distracted. Another example is the two people who were murdered by the Boogalooo boys. This happened halfway across the city from the protests and the Boogaloos are anti-BLM. But those deaths still get recorded in the BLM death stats

You saying that there was looting in three cities near you is A) still possible with 3.7%. That's still a hundred cities across the US. B) this tells me nothing about who actually did the looting. C) I'm not claiming BLM did no looting. D) I remember Target and Walmart complaining about rises in shoplifting in 2020.... When all shoplifting went down by something like 50%. I do not trust anything they claim E) Unless you are less than 30 years old, you've had tanks roll down streets to keep citizens quite F) I don't know why you think it would be random

I don't know where you live, and I don't expect you to tell a stranger. You're going to have to research it

There are tons of small cities/towns/villages. That 3.7% of cities could relate to a much much much higher percentage of the population. I'm sure there's a very high percentage of major cities that saw looting because of BLM so when you add up the population from say Chicago, Seattle, New York, LA, San Francisca, Atlanta, DC, etc.; you probably have like 100 million people that experienced looting in their cities (if you go and add up all just all the major cities' populations that experienced looting), and 100 million (just very rough estimate, I don't feel like actually adding up the major city populations) would be already 30% of the population of the US that experienced looting in their city. Then you do have smaller cities like mine (I lived in Calumet City, Illinois at the time, and Lansing and Chicago are adjacent to Cal City and both of those experienced looting). See how that 3.7% number (even if 100% accurate) is not telling you the whole story? This is what they do with crime stats all the time.

If there wasn't BLM protests, there wouldn't have been looting; I don't really care if it technically wasn't BLM or not. I know a manager at Target, the amount of shoplifting (in a good neighborhood) is pretty damn high for them. Also, you wouldn't have stores locking items behind cases, not allowing in teenagers without parents, and closing stores if there wasn't a shoplifting problem. Maybe shoplifting went down 50% from the peak but that can easily still mean shoplifting is still up. They do that with crime stats all the time saying murders are down 10% from last year, but when compared to pre-2020, murders are still very elevated. Just because crime is down doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Trunkage]

There are tons of small cities/towns/villages. That 3.7% of cities could relate to a much much much higher percentage of the population. I'm sure there's a very high percentage of major cities that saw looting because of BLM so when you add up the population from say Chicago, Seattle, New York, LA, San Francisca, Atlanta, DC, etc.; you probably have like 100 million people that experienced looting in their cities (if you go and add up all just all the major cities' populations that experienced looting), and 100 million (just very rough estimate, I don't feel like actually adding up the major city populations) would be already 30% of the population of the US that experienced looting in their city. Then you do have smaller cities like mine (I lived in Calumet City, Illinois at the time, and Lansing and Chicago are adjacent to Cal City and both of those experienced looting). See how that 3.7% number (even if 100% accurate) is not telling you the whole story? This is what they do with crime stats all the time.

If there wasn't BLM protests, there wouldn't have been looting; I don't really care if it technically wasn't BLM or not. I know a manager at Target, the amount of shoplifting (in a good neighborhood) is pretty damn high for them. Also, you wouldn't have stores locking items behind cases, not allowing in teenagers without parents, and closing stores if there wasn't a shoplifting problem. Maybe shoplifting went down 50% from the peak but that can easily still mean shoplifting is still up. They do that with crime stats all the time saying murders are down 10% from last year, but when compared to pre-2020, murders are still very elevated. Just because crime is down doesn't mean it's good.

No. That's false. Some of that looting would have happened irrelevant of BLM because there is always some crime

But let's pretend that what you say is true. Why would you blame BLM when 1) they didn't even do some of it 2) that's the Police's responsibility to monitor. Not BLM.

It would be really fucking wierd to blame BLM for the police mismanagement

Note: We can definitely prove that Jan 6 looting some of congressional office. It's on tape. Can you do the same for all the looting that happen while BLM was on?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

No. That's false. Some of that looting would have happened irrelevant of BLM because there is always some crime

But let's pretend that what you say is true. Why would you blame BLM when 1) they didn't even do some of it 2) that's the Police's responsibility to monitor. Not BLM.

It would be really fucking wierd to blame BLM for the police mismanagement

Note: We can definitely prove that Jan 6 looting some of congressional office. It's on tape. Can you do the same for all the looting that happen while BLM was on?

The looting doesn't happen normally at all, you have shoplifting sure. Like I said, I've never seen looting in my area in my life outside the BLM protests. They've never put concrete barriers at the mall entrances, never had the national guard at the Wal-Mart.

If there were no BLM protests, there wouldn't have been looting. Also saw interviews of people explaining why they are looting and tied it to BLM.

You can YouTube search like any mayor city + looting + BLM and find videos of looting.

 

[Trunkage]

The looting doesn't happen normally at all, you have shoplifting sure. Like I said, I've never seen looting in my area in my life outside the BLM protests. They've never put concrete barriers at the mall entrances, never had the national guard at the Wal-Mart.

If there were no BLM protests, there wouldn't have been looting. Also saw interviews of people explaining why they are looting and tied it to BLM.

You can YouTube search like any mayor city + looting + BLM and find videos of looting.

Ah, yes. Looting happened while BLM waa on. So it HAS to be BLM fault

You get that this makes no sense. The POLICE are meant to stop looting. Not BLM. If the police left the protest (or man it like they did Jan 6, skeleton crew) and DID THEIR FUCKING JOBS, the looting wouldn't have happened

Now, let's get to the lie about 'no looting ever happening.' Your claim is that, outside of BLM protest, no one breaks into stores and steals stuff.

Because no one believes you. Especially Donald Trump. He thinks stealing from shops happens on every second blocks

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ah, yes. Looting happened while BLM waa on. So it HAS to be BLM fault

You get that this makes no sense. The POLICE are meant to stop looting. Not BLM. If the police left the protest (or man it like they did Jan 6, skeleton crew) and DID THEIR FUCKING JOBS, the looting wouldn't have happened

Now, let's get to the lie about 'no looting ever happening.' Your claim is that, outside of BLM protest, no one breaks into stores and steals stuff.

Because no one believes you. Especially Donald Trump. He thinks stealing from shops happens on every second blocks

So you're saying that they had to block the entrances to the malls, block the ramps on the expressway, and have the National Guard at Wal-Mart for the 1st time ever and it just so happened to coincide with the BLM protests and had nothing to do with them?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

 

[tippy2k2]

You can make any situation sound good if you just lie. Follow me for more tips!

 

[Trunkage]

So you're saying that they had to block the entrances to the malls, block the ramps on the expressway, and have the National Guard at Wal-Mart for the 1st time ever and it just so happened to coincide with the BLM protests and had nothing to do with them?

The put them there for the looters.... Because they were worried about looters.

Looters took advantage of the fact that the police were so worried about BLM, the police ignored actual crimes. Then they blamed BLM because the police exaggerated the dangers of BLM

 

[Trunkage]

You can make any situation sound good if you just lie. Follow me for more tips!

Well, he's technically correct. Americans (at least avowed Americans) arent involved in war....

But Biden is funding wars. It's the best kind of correct

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Well, he's technically correct. Americans (at least avowed Americans) arent involved in war....

But Biden is funding wars. It's the best kind of correct

That's not even correct.

U.S. Navy pilot becomes first American woman to "engage and kill an air-to-air contact"

A fighter pilot for the U.S. Navy became the first American woman to earn an air-to-air victory when she shot down a Houthi drone in the Red Sea region.

www.cbsnews.com

This is on the same level as Trump saying we were energy independent under him. I.e. not at all true.

 

[tippy2k2]

Well, he's technically correct. Americans (at least avowed Americans) arent involved in war....

But Biden is funding wars. It's the best kind of correct

What Crimson said and we're still bombing places.

They can argue all they want that this isn't "technically" war the same way that I can argue that when I held a gun to your head and said "give me your wallet", you were just donating your money to me because you willingly handed your wallet to me.

 

[Trunkage]

What Crimson said and we're still bombing places.

They can argue all they want that this isn't "technically" war the same way that I can argue that when I held a gun to your head and said "give me your wallet", you were just donating your money to me because you willingly handed your wallet to me.

I dont disagree with you

And yes, they would do that and say its technically donating your money. It's just how they think. I don't even know if I could say anything different about Sanders

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The put them there for the looters.... Because they were worried about looters.

Looters took advantage of the fact that the police were so worried about BLM, the police ignored actual crimes. Then they blamed BLM because the police exaggerated the dangers of BLM

They put them there AFTERWARD because the mall and other businesses did in fact get looted. There wasn't a BLM protest in my city that had all the cops' attention when the looted all the businesses.

Here's a video of a BLM woman talking about how it's OK to burn their town and not to care about Target and whatnot. It's not just people who were like "oh, the cops are all over there, I'm gonna go and loot over here."

Technically America hasn't declared war since 1942.

 

[Trunkage]

They put them there AFTERWARD because the mall and other businesses did in fact get looted. There wasn't a BLM protest in my city that had all the cops' attention when the looted all the businesses.

You understand that this is an admission that it's the police fault. Right?

Right?

I swear you don't read you're on thoughts. Here you are saying the police wasn't stretched and CHOSE to let looting happen. That's way worse than if they were stretched to capacity. Would you like to try again?

Here's a video of a BLM woman talking about how it's OK to burn their town and not to care about Target and whatnot. It's not just people who were like "oh, the cops are all over there, I'm gonna go and loot over here."

I have already provided proof of a right wing who looted durint the protests to make BLM look bad

Are you trying to paint all BLM protestors with the same brush? If you are playing that game, I can do it back if you like. You're choice

But, I would suggest the problem is that you think I said no BLM protestors looted.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

You understand that this is an admission that it's the police fault. Right?

Right?

I swear you don't read you're on thoughts. Here you are saying the police wasn't stretched and CHOSE to let looting happen. That's way worse than if they were stretched to capacity. Would you like to try again?

I have already provided proof of a right wing who looted durint the protests to make BLM look bad

Are you trying to paint all BLM protestors with the same brush? If you are playing that game, I can do it back if you like. You're choice

But, I would suggest the problem is that you think I said no BLM protestors looted.

There's only so much the cops can do when you have a mass of people looting. Also, it's not on the people for behaving poorly and looting, but it's on the cops for letting them? So if someone commits murder and doesn't get caught, it's the cops' fault and not the murderer's fault?

I'm saying the messaging of BLM was problematic and condoned looting as it's literally in the video I posted.

 

[Trunkage]

There's only so much the cops can do when you have a mass of people looting.

Yeah, this is not what you said. You claimed there wasn't a BLM protest in your city and they still let looting happen.

Also, it's not on the people for behaving poorly and looting, but it's on the cops for letting them? So if someone commits murder and doesn't get caught, it's the cops' fault and not the murderer's fault?

Yes.

I would hope that if the cops have a choice between a manning protest and stopping looting, they would choose to stop the latter. Unfortunately, they utterly failed because they ALWAYS see leftists as more dangerous than criminals. This is a very consistent trend for well over a century

I'm saying the messaging of BLM was problematic and condoned looting as it's literally in the video I posted.

Ah, yes. So, this one person speaks for all 25,000,000 BLM protests.

I'll note that you have now chosen. Therefore, by your own personal reasoning, everyone at the Jan 6 deserves to be locked up, particularly because they threatened the Vice President

 

[Agema]

I would hope that if the cops have a choice between a manning protest and stopping looting, they would choose to stop the latter. Unfortunately, they utterly failed because they ALWAYS see leftists as more dangerous than criminals. This is a very consistent trend for well over a century

Policing demos / riots is tricky. There has been some criticism of "two-tier" policing in the UK. The complaints are bullshit as have been popularly put, that the police crack down on white people more than non-white. However, in certain ways, the police do treat different protests/riots differently depending on situation.

In the UK, the expectation of the police commander on the ground is to make decisions for best long-term outcomes to minimise harm and damage. For instance, an intervention may cause more harm, aggravating the crowd and increasing conflict. This may also apply to preventing looting. If you imagine a tense but relatively conflict-free confrontation, and the police notice some looting, stopping the looting might inadvertently provoke a wider conflict, in which case the police may let it happen. In some riots, the police have stood back mostly in containment because community leaders are working calm the crowd down and disperse it. This may involve letting some damage occur that they could have stopped if they'd gone in, but a few burnt cars and smashed windows are better than dozens hospitalised.

I expect similar principles should apply in the USA, although that my perception is that the US police are less respectful of people and much more tooled up, so more inclined to be heavy-handed.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah, this is not what you said. You claimed there wasn't a BLM protest in your city and they still let looting happen.

Yes.

I would hope that if the cops have a choice between a manning protest and stopping looting, they would choose to stop the latter. Unfortunately, they utterly failed because they ALWAYS see leftists as more dangerous than criminals. This is a very consistent trend for well over a century

Ah, yes. So, this one person speaks for all 25,000,000 BLM protests.

I'll note that you have now chosen. Therefore, by your own personal reasoning, everyone at the Jan 6 deserves to be locked up, particularly because they threatened the Vice President

Huh? I've always said there wasn't a protest and there was looting. The Wikipedia entry also confirms as much for Calumet City. The police of any city only have so many officers; if enough of the population wants to do something, the police really can't stop them. It's like the time I went to the Cubs World Series parade and a cop said to the crowd that if we don't get back, he'd push us back. Yeah... if the crowd that big decided to do something, there's really nothing the police could do.

George Floyd protests in Illinois - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, you're literally saying that people murdering, stealing, raping, etc. are the fault of others (say cops) for letting it happen vs the people actually committing the crimes? With that logic, then the police CHOSE to let Jan 6th happen and it's the cops' fault and not the protesters?

Again, huh? You're jumping to massive conclusions here. You can have part of the messaging of any movement be bad/problematic and not all people in the movement believing that. Not all people believing something would act on it either. So if you have people looting, some of them do believe the problematic messaging and use that as a reason/excuse to loot and some just used the looting as an opportunity to steal stuff just to steal stuff.