The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)
- Thread starter hanselthecaretaker
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I swear to god it's like I'm being gaslight by the entire Elden Ring fandom.
He says here at one point that the deflecting tear was put there to show us how effective guard counters.
BULLSHIT
In the beginning of my very first playthrough, when I saw the guard counter, I wanted that to be a key part of my playstyle, I loved the idea. But I couldn't make it work beyond the initial batch of scrubs in Limgrave, gave up, and relied on magic and bleed to beat the game.
In my current playthrough I got it to work after much research and trial and error. But in the end game and DLC, guard counter is completely useless because the enemies move too fast. I block, execute the counter, and the enemy has jumped three times before I start my swing. This is like almost every enemy now.
My last boss fight was with Rakshasa, who has a huge katana. A duel between a big dex warrior and my power gal with guard counters should have been an interesting match-up, but her responses were all over the place- sometimes I could guard counter a slash, and sometimes the same slash from the same angle would result in a whiff or she would "jump" (teleport) in some nonsensical angle. She has a jump attack that can't be effectively blocked/countered and that is fair, I don't mind something like that, but when the same things are inconsistent you can't really have a strategy. And of course since the enemies hit so hard you can't just take it as a fun fight with a bit of chaos because you'll be rekt- my vigor bar is huge and it doens't matter.
So... goodbye fun duel, back to cycling through my weapons to figure out which cheese strategy works. Which, yay, I won, but it doesn't feel so good.
That's just the most recent example. Try a guard counter against the stupid spinning enemies like the curseblade- or, ok, with deflecting tear, I'm supposed to repeatedly counter Sekiro style but of course with all the spinning I can't see shit. Forget about that with like any boss fight because not seeing shit is basically their entire advantage.
Sorry... still not buying this whole deflecting tear thing.
In terms of stance damage of course it won’t be as effective on enemies or bosses with tons of poise. Like it could take four or five guard counters to break someone the opposite of a scrub, and yeah they can interrupt easily during their combos since they usually have huge stamina pools too. It’s why great shields work better since they can tank more of that before getting a window to counter.
The deflect tear works on the same principle as guard counters (blocking something and countering at some point) but with the benefit of little to no stamina loss while deflecting, and being able to stack counter damage which is especially useful during enemy combos vs just eating stamina damage. The tradeoff is it requires timing, but at least has a more generous window than parrying.
I’d probably still be fighting that boat rider without the deflect tear.
Midra and everything leading up to him was a highlight in all of FROM’s games for me. Especially going in blind and kinda stumbling upon all that way down there after escaping the catacombs, with no crimson flasks left and a newly discovered great katana as my best hope for survival.
> I’d probably still be fighting that boat rider without the deflect tear.
I assume you meant boar rider, Gaius? Interesting- he is one of the enemies whose moves were just too spastic to counter properly.
Well I'm glad some folks and you are enjoying deflecting tear, I'll chalk it up to one of the many parts of the game that is very different for different people, like how I also can't time magic attacks for shit while others feel great weapons are too slow while I do not. *shrug*
The St. Trina and Lord Midra (which I completed last night) stuff are my favorite parts of the game. I have seen complaints about the "lore" of the game but getting to actually meet St. Trina and seeing a frenzy castle negates those complaints. In general, the whole world-building and area design of this DLC is stunning and I love it. I mean the whole Shadow Keep dungeon was brilliant, the blue and red flower areas and beaches- as good as the best stuff from the base game.
And now to qvetchabout stuff (as I have said, bitching about these games is a core part of my enjoyment).
- Qvetch 1: I finally beat Messmer. All I did was save him for after I did literally everything else I was gonna so that I could scadu-up enough to eat his non-stop attacks long enough for my summons to kill him. Blech.
I'm still convinced the scadu system blows chunks, a dumb way to try to scale/level/whatever a DLC on top of an endlessly long game with build craft. Every time I find a scadu it's the most joyous moment of the game because of how badly I need them, and then I get annoyed that I need them.
- Qvetch 2: Apparently if you enter the Messmer boss room before exhausting everything possible with a couple of NPC's you miss out on finishing their quest lines which involves getting into a fight with them. Well, I did kind of stumble into the boss room by just exploring on my own and it sucks that I miss out on something, like I'm punished for exploring. Players should not be punished for exploring!
- Qvetch 3: I know about Qvetch #2 because sometimes I follow a guide to make sure I don't miss out on scadus (see Qvetch #1)- that is, I explore on my own, then I backtrack with the guide. I started the questlines for the guy in the church on the throne and his knight lady underling but then the guide told me about how to get a spirit ash which is two cools warrior knights! And you have to do this crazy platforming thing that I would never ever think of and even with the guide had to try a few times to execute- like you gotta jump off a cliff on some other area onto some balcony that you can't reach without some crazy jumping. WTF lol. The spirit ash is great- I couldn't imagine anything would make want to swap out my beloved mimic but having two decent warriors occupy a boss is tremendous (it sure kept Messmer busy). I just hate that one of the coolest things in the whole game is locked behind some crazy b.s. like that.
And that questline for the church guy- very cool, with the finger ruins, but those "maps" he gives you might as well just say "nah bro go look it up online."
Well I must be near the end because the map is fully visible so I guess soon I'll be bitching about the last boss fight along with the whole internet.
I assume you meant boar rider, Gaius? Interesting- he is one of the enemies whose moves were just too spastic to counter properly.
Well I'm glad some folks and you are enjoying deflecting tear, I'll chalk it up to one of the many parts of the game that is very different for different people, like how I also can't time magic attacks for shit while others feel great weapons are too slow while I do not. *shrug*
The St. Trina and Lord Midra (which I completed last night) stuff are my favorite parts of the game. I have seen complaints about the "lore" of the game but getting to actually meet St. Trina and seeing a frenzy castle negates those complaints. In general, the whole world-building and area design of this DLC is stunning and I love it. I mean the whole Shadow Keep dungeon was brilliant, the blue and red flower areas and beaches- as good as the best stuff from the base game.
And now to qvetchabout stuff (as I have said, bitching about these games is a core part of my enjoyment).
- Qvetch 1: I finally beat Messmer. All I did was save him for after I did literally everything else I was gonna so that I could scadu-up enough to eat his non-stop attacks long enough for my summons to kill him. Blech.
I'm still convinced the scadu system blows chunks, a dumb way to try to scale/level/whatever a DLC on top of an endlessly long game with build craft. Every time I find a scadu it's the most joyous moment of the game because of how badly I need them, and then I get annoyed that I need them.
- Qvetch 2: Apparently if you enter the Messmer boss room before exhausting everything possible with a couple of NPC's you miss out on finishing their quest lines which involves getting into a fight with them. Well, I did kind of stumble into the boss room by just exploring on my own and it sucks that I miss out on something, like I'm punished for exploring. Players should not be punished for exploring!
- Qvetch 3: I know about Qvetch #2 because sometimes I follow a guide to make sure I don't miss out on scadus (see Qvetch #1)- that is, I explore on my own, then I backtrack with the guide. I started the questlines for the guy in the church on the throne and his knight lady underling but then the guide told me about how to get a spirit ash which is two cools warrior knights! And you have to do this crazy platforming thing that I would never ever think of and even with the guide had to try a few times to execute- like you gotta jump off a cliff on some other area onto some balcony that you can't reach without some crazy jumping. WTF lol. The spirit ash is great- I couldn't imagine anything would make want to swap out my beloved mimic but having two decent warriors occupy a boss is tremendous (it sure kept Messmer busy). I just hate that one of the coolest things in the whole game is locked behind some crazy b.s. like that.
And that questline for the church guy- very cool, with the finger ruins, but those "maps" he gives you might as well just say "nah bro go look it up online."
Well I must be near the end because the map is fully visible so I guess soon I'll be bitching about the last boss fight along with the whole internet.
I genuinely don't know how this can be your experience, unless you're hefting the clumsiest weapon in the game against dogs and dragonflies. I've been consistently using guard counters for 3+ playthroughs and DLC, and the occasional shifty enemy will dance away, but for the most part it's very reliable. It's a damn sight easier than parrying.
Oh, parrying in ER is completely impossible for me. I literally don't think I successfully parried once in two complete playthroughs. And I beat Sekiro 4 times.
Yeah, that lol (boar rider…huh, so now spell check is mum). I think I died enough on that one to learn the timings. Especially his first combo which was consistently done after the opening charge. Deflecting at least four out of five hits and retaliating with the counter broke his stance, which with the damage boost nearly brought him to phase two as it is. Then he busted out all the crazy AoE gravity magic crap which I mostly used Torrent to run away from.
Yeah I didn’t care for the Trina section’s boss much (how much stamina does this dead dude have anyways, and the horse just ends it with a big fuck you too after it all lol, plus the phase two AoE stuff is like, what…ok), and was the only one so far where I switched to my “fuck it” weapon (Blasphemous Blade because its skill pretty much melts anything even at 40-50 faith). But the lead up to it in terms of level design was particularly ominous, and I still don’t know what to do since she just kills me by interacting with her. I might be looking that up in the end.
Finding Midra’s domain was a treat. Had no idea where I was going or what I was getting into, but was out of flasks in the catacombs and really leaning into the Rakshasa great katana I found earlier with its long reach and “stay back!” weapon skill to survive. The castle and surrounding area felt like something they might’ve thought up for Bloodborne but saved for later.
I guess i probably missed those quest lines too then. I mean I’ve been talking to a couple of these fools at the grace sites and made some “choices”, but no idea how or what it will ultimately matter for. I might just check the fextra page for that if/when I ever do another game cycle here.
That’s the thing with FROM games. They’re designed as if to say they don’t care what you might miss along the way, so I’ve conditioned myself into thinking it must’ve not been that important then. Right now I’m in an almost too nice looking for a FROM game spot I’ve been wondering how to get to, and it turns out that one portal I found earlier but was scared to try so early was worth it. Fun playing this way but yeah, my play through time is probably like three times as long as most people’s.
Re: Trina killing you, that's if you drink the potion, which you can also get from some follow-a-guide-to-know-about-it process with another NPC, which also just kills you. I am just going with it being a meta- like, look, we're just dying over and over, here's a suicide thing to save you the trouble. It's what passes for comedy in these games.
Re: Midra and Bloodborne- yeah, those creatures that kill you with frenzy that you gotta sneak around is exactly like those eyeball-head dudes in BB (ER frenzy = BB madness).
I just cleared the penultimate section and I resorted to a guide when I say the absolute gank squad nature of some of those area. I completely skipped a bunch of field bosses because I am absolute sick of furnace golems and while another dancing lion fight was worth a try, I abandoned it when they added basilisks with deathblight crap. Man- that kind of thing just isn't fun. Since I just want to see cool areas, fight unique enemies, and make progress, I'm definitely skipping stuff.
The boss of the area is fantastic and sure part of it is because it was the easiest major boss of the game for me but also because it just looked hella cool.
Technically that isn't saying much as Sekiro is pretty forgiving with its parry mechanic; one could spam the parry button and still get results, it doesn't really require frame accurate input on the degree that Elden Ring does.
Yeah I didn't mean it like I'm some parry master because I haven't been able to parry well in any parry-heavy game since Sekiro. Just that the Sekiro description is used to describe the deflecting tear in the Elden Ring DLC.
They really should’ve made it a talisman or even an ash for certain weapon types, because I’d love to go through the game with a katana or greatsword with it. It wouldn’t even need to be overpowered, as if that could even be a concern in a game where certain weapon skills/spells already wipe the floor with everything.
What do you mean exactly? As someone who has sparingly dug into the convolution that is the various potential levers to pull and knobs to tweak when it come to refining a build, I personally feel there are TOO many talismans (talismen?) I've watched countless videos by people who optimize a build using various combinations of talismans, physiks tears, ashes, etc., and my head just spins. I can't help but feel my build could be so much better, but I also can't be arsed to try and figure it all out!
Well I made it to the last boss. But I'm at Scadu 19, missing two fragments needed for the full Scadu. And I really don't wanna be dealing with what is supposed the THE HARDEST BOSS EVER without full upgrades. Yet it's also practically impossible to figure out which fragments I'm missing, especially since some are with these shadow guy enemies that run away and are surrounded by other dudes.
The epic battle against the other NPCs was very cool and I think I might me ok with treating that as the real end of the game.
The epic battle against the other NPCs was very cool and I think I might me ok with treating that as the real end of the game.
Physik tears have limited use, typically time limits. If the deflect function was a talisman or even better a weapon skill, then it could be used as much as the player wanted.
Are you still using the bloodhounds fang? If you have the curved sword talisman it would work really well with that weapon and the deflect tear given the reahc
One Scadu won’t make much of a difference if any since it works like normal level scaling (diminishing returns). Worst case you could always just try this lol -
Oh, I think I read your initial post wrong; were you responding to Old_Hunter_77 and asking for a parrying talisman?
But yeah, still using the 'Fang. Might give that talisman a try.
Absolutely livid right now. Spent 10 minutes whittling down the health of the first Furnace Golem; got caught in a couple of his single-foot stomps, but survived with about half health at least 4-5 times. When I FINALLY got him down to a sliver of health, he single-stomped again and one-shot me from FULL health. What, does he have a talisman that increases his damage the lower his health is or some shit?!? Same attack suddenly does twice as much damage??
Fucking bullshit...
Fucking bullshit...