Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter may soon go through

Gergar12

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Seems like the VPN ban is taken back.
Starlink also complied as all the other ISPs and won't get banned.

It is only X that is banned and, well, i am OK with that. Hope it gets banned in the EU too.
I am surprised it wasn't banned before the French elections, the only thing helping there was that the left deprived Russia of much of the fuel needed to undermine the French Government. Sadly, Macron hates Melenchon more than he loves acting in good faith, and I am predicting FN will one day win, hopefully something interrupts their medium-term momentum.

But it's funny whenever I am on X; it's always race-baiting. Even the Venezuelan migrant story. It's saying, look at these dirty Maduro socialist illegal alien migrants that aren't assimilating. When in reality the vast majority of migrants from the Madruo-created economic crisis are peaceful, even if they aren't 1000% assimilated.

Starlink, however, is where I draw the line, it needs to work given its potential benefits. We are talking about the precursor to a type 1 civilizational-defining technology. It will eventually eliminate in-office work for many jobs and could lower global income inequality.
 

Agema

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It's a stupid decision. Not only did that stupid Supreme Court judge ban X. They also banned Starlink, and are now viciously attacking VPNs because of Brazilian protectionism.
One might query whether the courts should be able to carry out this sort of legal demand, and whether it's the best way for a country to work. But evidently that is how Brazil works, so... well, if you're in Brazil, it's your responsibility to know and respect Brazilian law.

If Musk wants to flout those laws he can suffer the consequences. This is how the law works: everyone's supposed to obey it, and you don't get excused because you are rich. In fact, it's absolutely fucking ace that Brazil has done this to Musk, in the sense of taking that principle and making it stick on one of the world's richest people.

Thus maybe instead we think less "Why has Brazil done this?" and more "Why don't we do this?"

Just for context here, the report has been finally been published on the Grenfell Fire in London. There's a lot of blame in there. But highest on the list is the deliberate greed and dishonesty of construction firms and deliberate strategy of the government to step back from well... governance. So over 70 people died avoidably. How did these corporations serve the community? Why don't we find that they have fundamentally failed the basics of responsibility we should expect from someone operating in our society, and exclude them from our society?

* * *

As a final note, I'm also going to add in here that Musk happily complies with all manner of oppressive regimes who want his company to prune comments and accounts that they don't like. The fact he's kicking up a stink about Brazil just means he's a hypocritical c\/nt. I have a suspicion that he's gutted FKA Twitter's moderation system so badly that it may actually be unable to comply (Starlink, after all, did comply). Rather than admit that, instead he's engaged in childish posturing.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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As a final note, I'm also going to add in here that Musk happily complies with all manner of oppressive regimes who want his company to prune comments and accounts that they don't like. The fact he's kicking up a stink about Brazil just means he's a hypocritical c\/nt. I have a suspicion that he's gutted FKA Twitter's moderation system so badly that it may actually be unable to comply (Starlink, after all, did comply). Rather than admit that, instead he's engaged in childish posturing.
He's sticking up for right-wing autocrats because he wants to be their buddy and get rewarded for his service.
 
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tstorm823

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If they had said "you won't ban who we tell you to, so we're banning the whole platform", I see little problem with that. Lots of content is banned or moderated because of laws, and it's up to Brazil to decide its laws for itself.

The series of events that goes "ban these accounts or we'll throw your representative here in jail... oh, your representative isn't here anymore, now we'll ban the website for not having legal representation in the country" is much dumber, and is probably going to hurt Brazil more than if they didn't make a dumb excuse.
 

Agema

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The series of events that goes "ban these accounts or we'll throw your representative here in jail... oh, your representative isn't here anymore, now we'll ban the website for not having legal representation in the country" is much dumber, and is probably going to hurt Brazil more than if they didn't make a dumb excuse.
I'm not sure that's true.

There's a reasonable principle that you can hold an employee of a corporation responsible for what would otherwise be the corporation's crime. This has uses, because this sort of personal accountability can encourage individuals to be law-abiding in a way that general corporate responsibility does not. If the company is going to be fined: the individuals responsible within it don't necessarily experience the punishment, so have less motivation to be ethical.

However, if the corporation attempts to evade this by protecting the employees, the law can then decide that the corporation takes the hit after all.
 

tstorm823

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I'm not sure that's true.

There's a reasonable principle that you can hold an employee of a corporation responsible for what would otherwise be the corporation's crime. This has uses, because this sort of personal accountability can encourage individuals to be law-abiding in a way that general corporate responsibility does not. If the company is going to be fined: the individuals responsible within it don't necessarily experience the punishment, so have less motivation to be ethical.

However, if the corporation attempts to evade this by protecting the employees, the law can then decide that the corporation takes the hit after all.
Ok, but what company wants to work in Brazil now?
 

Avnger

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Ok, but what company wants to work in Brazil now?
This is standng Brazilian law and has been for decades. Every company currently operating in Brazil is already aware of this and follows the law just fine. This isn't some new, unprecedented process.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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This is standng Brazilian law and has been for decades. Every company currently operating in Brazil is already aware of this and follows the law just fine. This isn't some new, unprecedented process.
It's funny how "the party of law and order" starts whining about "tyranny" when the law ends up getting applied to them.
 
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tstorm823

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This is standng Brazilian law and has been for decades. Every company currently operating in Brazil is already aware of this and follows the law just fine. This isn't some new, unprecedented process.
So people are regularly thrown in jail cause their boss didn't follow a court order?
 

Agema

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Ok, but what company wants to work in Brazil now?
lol.

For context here, consider that China bans FKA Twitter and has done so for many years, and yet Elon Musk himself enthusiastically lovebombs China on behalf of Tesla.

This reveals to us the real state of affairs: corporations will not give a shit that Brazil has banned FKA Twitter in these circumstances. Multinationals are well used to working in and with states vastly more restrictive and repressive than Brazil: they do so because they understand the need to obey the law. That or make sure they can successfully bribe corrupt officials, anyway.
 
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tstorm823

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lol.

For context here, consider that China bans FKA Twitter and has done so for many years, and yet Elon Musk himself enthusiastically lovebombs China on behalf of Tesla.

This reveals to us the real state of affairs: corporations will not give a shit that Brazil has banned FKA Twitter in these circumstances. Multinationals are well used to working in and with states vastly more restrictive and repressive than Brazil: they do so because they understand the need to obey the law. That or make sure they can successfully bribe corrupt officials, anyway.
Do you not see the difference between straight up banning a website and arresting that site's employees for decisions made way above their heads?
 

Satinavian

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Do you not see the difference between straight up banning a website and arresting that site's employees for decisions made way above their heads?
If a law requires something and you go against the law, you can be punished for it. Having a boss in another country paying you to break the law doesn't help your case.


In any such circumstances employees are expected to follow the law and ignore orders from the top. And in most countries they can't even be fired for not breaking the law on their employers behest.
 
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tstorm823

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If a law requires something and you go against the law, you can be punished for it. Having a boss in another country paying you to break the law doesn't help your case.


In any such circumstances employees are expected to follow the law and ignore orders from the top. And in most countries they can't even be fired for not breaking the law on their employers behest.
Does the person whose job it is to appeal a court decision in Brazil have access to the tools that ban users? You're assuming this person was capable but unwilling to comply with the court order.
 

Agema

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Do you not see the difference between straight up banning a website and arresting that site's employees for decisions made way above their heads?
There are many, many concentration camp guards who might wish you'd been judging them at the Nuremburg trials.
 

tstorm823

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There are many, many concentration camp guards who might wish you'd been judging them at the Nuremburg trials.
This is why it irks me when people like you speak of empathy. You have none. You can't put in an ounce of effort towards considering the position of the person whose life is most directly destroyed by this series of events. Go ahead and blame Musk all you like, but now someone who works for Twitter is a Nazi. Get that crap out of here.
 

Agema

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This is why it irks me when people like you speak of empathy. You have none. You can't put in an ounce of effort towards considering the position of the person whose life is most directly destroyed by this series of events. Go ahead and blame Musk all you like, but now someone who works for Twitter is a Nazi. Get that crap out of here.
Don't be so ridiculous.

This isn't some vulnerable, barely-educated grunt with a spouse and kids to feed who's only a couple of missed paycheques away from destitution. This is a smart, well-paid, high-flying lawyer that FKA Twitter can look after, or - in the case of resignation, has excellent chances of highly remunerated work elsewhere. Concentration camp guard is possibly a bad analogy, if only because concentration camp commandant or central administrator might better reflect where he is in the power structure.

As for Nazis, I would remind you that FKA Twitter is in this position because it is protecting the accounts and access of supporters of a very right-wing Brazilian ex-president, whilst it is in the ownership of a businessman who is increasingly promoting extreme right ideas and rhetoric. Although I understand that you might not find that such a problem, possibly because you empathise with those views a great deal more.
 

tstorm823

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Although I understand that you might not find that such a problem, possibly because you empathise with those views a great deal more.
A great deal more than other views? Nope. A great deal more than you do? Sure.
 

Satinavian

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Does the person whose job it is to appeal a court decision in Brazil have access to the tools that ban users? You're assuming this person was capable but unwilling to comply with the court order.
If they are the people hose job is to ensure compliance, they should have the tools to ensure compliance.

At least, if they did not conspire to deceive the Brasilian government from the get go.



That is nothing special. Everywhere else the guy responsible for ensuring compliance with law or regulations is personally liable if the company does knowingly try to go against those. There are usually steps that have to be taken when the higher ups want to break the law and not doing them makes you complicit if you are part of the control mechanism.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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I don't remember this being mentioned. In response to Taylor Swift endorsing Kamala Harris for President and mocking JD Vance's "childless cat lady" bit, Elon Musk decided to be an absolute creep.



I know he won't, but I'd love to see Travis Kelce absolutely deck Musk. Maybe knock those "alpha male" delusions out of his skull.
 
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