US 2024 Presidential Election

[tippy2k2]

Guess who came to dinner with Flynn and Putin

NBC News reviewed video and photos from a 2015 Moscow gala that Mike Flynn was paid $45,000 to attend to see who else was in the room.

www.nbcnews.com

Yes yes, the picture of Jill Stein at the table from 9 years ago is all the proof we need that she is bought and paid for by Russia. Never mind all the other people (including Trump administration people) being there, this is the Smoking Gun that Jill Stein is bought and paid for by Russia.

But you know what, I'll even go this far; I don't give a flying fuck even if she was bought and paid for by Russia at this point. We are all well aware that Stein isn't going to win the presidential election. My vote for her (assuming I even vote for her, I don't know who else is on the ballot) is far more of a FUCK YOU to The Democrats and The Republicans than it is anything else. And again, I find this accusation incredibly rich considering the podcasts who are LITERALLY bought and paid for by Russia with that Tenet shit but hey, Jill Stein was once at a dinner with Putin nine years ago...

Because people don't think all Green Party voters are like you, and there very possibly are enough Green Party voters who'd choose Democrat instead such that it would swing a close election.

Of course, the Democrats might also just want to reduce the Green Party's media footprint, because the express desire of most of the Greens seems to be to break the two-party system... starting with the Democratic Party.

There's no way for us to 100% know for sure but I feel like if someone is at the point where they are actively using their vote to vote for Green, they're at my point and wouldn't vote Democrat either way.

As for your second point, I 100% agree with you. The Democrats are a political party and have no desire to let go of that power and they'll be willing to do whatever dirty tricks they need in order to keep that power (it's why for all the talk of us getting "Ranked Choices", we will never ever see that because the people who would need to put Ranked Choice on the ballot are the ones that stand to lose the most from it).

The reason The Green Party wants to break the two party system starting with The Democrats is because The Democrats are SUPPOSED to be the left wing of the country but they're not. In some aspects they might lean slightly left but they're very much a Centrist party. As the saying goes, if Democrats didn't want to get punched when we're punching right, they should stop standing to the right of us.

 

[Avnger]

Green Party of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 11830

Green Party does go after smaller elections (and win them). Just because you dorks only pay attention to Green Party every four years so you can cry SPOILER!!!!! every Presidential Election doesn't mean Green Party only runs for President.

I also find it incredibly rich the Russian shit when a bunch of Far Right Republican podcasters literally were just caught being paid a ton of money to push Russian talking points...

I like how you conveniently left out this super helpful summary of green party elected officials from the same page (likely because it would show the denominator and category for that 143 number).

• 0 senate seats
• 0 house seats
• 0 governorships
• 0 state senate seats
• 0 state house seats
• 0 territory governorships
• 0 territory senate seats
• 0 territory house seats
• 143 out of 519, 682 "other" officials (aka 0.028%)

Sounds like a very successful party that is totally serious about effecting political policy at all levels of government...

 

[tippy2k2]

I like how you conveniently left out this super helpful summary of green party elected officials from the same page (likely because it would show the denominator and category for that 143 number).

• 0 senate seats
• 0 house seats
• 0 governorships
• 0 state senate seats
• 0 state house seats
• 0 territory governorships
• 0 territory senate seats
• 0 territory house seats
• 143 out of 519, 682 "other" officials (aka 0.028%)

Sounds like a very successful party that is totally serious about effecting political policy at all levels of government...

So they need to keep to local elections because they need to start somewhere but they don't have any national level seats so they're worthless and shouldn't be trying to build their party?

 

[Gergar12]

Yes yes, the picture of Jill Stein at the table from 9 years ago is all the proof we need that she is bought and paid for by Russia. Never mind all the other people (including Trump administration people) being there, this is the Smoking Gun that Jill Stein is bought and paid for by Russia.

But you know what, I'll even go this far; I don't give a flying fuck even if she was bought and paid for by Russia at this point. We are all well aware that Stein isn't going to win the presidential election. My vote for her (assuming I even vote for her, I don't know who else is on the ballot) is far more of a FUCK YOU to The Democrats and The Republicans than it is anything else. And again, I find this accusation incredibly rich considering the podcasts who are LITERALLY bought and paid for by Russia with that Tenet shit but hey, Jill Stein was once at a dinner with Putin nine years ago...



There's no way for us to 100% know for sure but I feel like if someone is at the point where they are actively using their vote to vote for Green, they're at my point and wouldn't vote Democrat either way.

As for your second point, I 100% agree with you. The Democrats are a political party and have no desire to let go of that power and they'll be willing to do whatever dirty tricks they need in order to keep that power (it's why for all the talk of us getting "Ranked Choices", we will never ever see that because the people who would need to put Ranked Choice on the ballot are the ones that stand to lose the most from it).

The reason The Green Party wants to break the two party system starting with The Democrats is because The Democrats are SUPPOSED to be the left wing of the country but they're not. In some aspects they might lean slightly left but they're very much a Centrist party. As the saying goes, if Democrats didn't want to get punched when we're punching right, they should stop standing to the right of us.

Ah yes, the GREEN Party candidate supports... a nuclear-armed gas station interests. By the way, I don't like Trump either, and Jill Stein is designed to get Republicans elected. She literally buys mutual funds from lots of Keystone XL pipeline companies. By the way for the people who don't know what that is. It's an ETF where you could in theory yell at a fund manager not to invest in oil companies/companies you don't like that cost more.

 

[tippy2k2]

Ah yes, the GREEN Party candidate supports... a nuclear-armed gas station interests. By the way, I don't like Trump either, and Jill Stein is designed to get Republicans elected. She literally buys mutual funds from lots of Keystone XL pipeline companies. By the way for the people who don't know what that is. It's an ETF where you could in theory yell at a fund manager not to invest in oil companies/companies you don't like that cost more.

The pipeline she got arrested for protesting?

When I Google for this (including ETF in my query), nothing comes up about this mutual fund. But as I stated above, I couldn't fucking care less seeing as I know she has zero chance to actually win.

Also

By the way, I don't like Trump either, and Jill Stein is designed to get Republicans elected

Once again, if suddenly the Green Party was removed from the ballot, that wouldn't make us just automatically vote for Democrats. You can scapegoat whatever/whoever you want but ultimately the DEMOCRATS are responsible for convincing us to vote for them. If the Democrats have failed to do that, that is on them.

 

[Gergar12]

The pipeline she got arrested for protesting?

When I Google for this (including ETF in my query), nothing comes up about this mutual fund. But as I stated above, I couldn't fucking care less seeing as I know she has zero chance to actually win.

Also



Once again, if suddenly the Green Party was removed from the ballot, that wouldn't make us just automatically vote for Democrats. You can scapegoat whatever/whoever you want but ultimately the DEMOCRATS are responsible for convincing us to vote for them. If the Democrats have failed to do that, that is on them.

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/big-pharma-wall-street-and-big-oil-jill-stein-is-heavily-invested-in-industries-she-rails-against/

 

[tippy2k2]

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/big-pharma-wall-street-and-big-oil-jill-stein-is-heavily-invested-in-industries-she-rails-against/

Ah, we're going with that old chestnut, eh?

But sure, I'll go with it and say that's one blemish on Jill Stein that is a verifiable fact.

I also have a 401K so I'm just as guilty as Jill Stein. If anyone wants to come over and collect my Leftist card, let me know and I'll have it ready for you so you can cut it up.

 

[Gergar12]

Ah, we're going with that old chestnut, eh?

But sure, I'll go with it and say that's one blemish on Jill Stein that is a verifiable fact.

I also have a 401K so I'm just as guilty as Jill Stein. If anyone wants to come over and collect my Leftist card, let me know and I'll have it ready for you so you can cut it up.

I do not fault you for doing this, you have 0 control over your 401K, and I have zero control over VOO. That said, neither of us went to Russia with Putin in the meeting dinnertable, and neither of us are multi-millionaires who have the f-you money to not invest it in Exxon. And neither of us are in the great moral Green party. You would think the Green Party candidate, who has been anti-nuclear, anti-offensive war, anti-fracking, anti-coal, anti-oil, and anti-big finance, would stand for what she believed in.

Also

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Greens won't win seats unless you vote for them, and if you're spending your time pointing out Democrat flaws and how they don't really represent you, vote Green. Then they'll win seats and you'll win representation.

 

[Avnger]

So they need to keep to local elections because they need to start somewhere but they don't have any national level seats so they're worthless and shouldn't be trying to build their party?

Merely showcasing how your post was unintentionally disingenuous (at best).

And the answer is the former because that's how you actually build a functioning party. Throwing money and political capital after a race for the highest office of the land when the party can't even manage to get elected to a single seat in a single state legislature is so obviously wasteful that its hard to take you seriously when denying it. I'll also point out that no US political party has ever won the whitehouse without first controlling at least a third of the federal legislature.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Greens won't win seats unless you vote for them, and if you're spending your time pointing out Democrat flaws and how they don't really represent you, vote Green. Then they'll win seats and you'll win representation.

I mean, I'm 95% sure there won't be a green on my ballot. I certainly haven't seen any advertising for them. Though that might just be because Tester's race is sucking up all the airtime

 

[tstorm823]

unintentionally disingenuous

Pretty sure that's just full oxymoron there.

 

[tippy2k2]

Merely showcasing how your post was unintentionally disingenuous (at best).

And the answer is the former because that's how you actually build a functioning party. Throwing money and political capital after a race for the highest office of the land when the party can't even manage to get elected to a single seat in a single state legislature is so obviously wasteful that its hard to take you seriously when denying it. I'll also point out that no US political party has ever won the whitehouse without first controlling at least a third of the federal legislature.

I'm sorry that when I said that The Greens have won smaller elections, you somehow read that as me saying that The Greens have won national level seats. I...won't let it happen again?

And yeah, shocker, the people overwhelmingly in power and do everything they can to make sure THEY stay in power and use every trick (dirty and otherwise) they can to eliminate any party that might even have a hint of threat to them are the ones that keep winning. It's a real brain burner to figure out why that keeps happening...

 

[crimson5pheonix]

I mean, I'm 95% sure there won't be a green on my ballot. I certainly haven't seen any advertising for them. Though that might just be because Tester's race is sucking up all the airtime

Offhand I don't know if there's a Green running against Tester. And obviously, if there's no Green running in a particular race, vote your next heart.

 

[BrawlMan]

I mean, I'm 95% sure there won't be a green on my ballot. I certainly haven't seen any advertising for them. Though that might just be because Tester's race is sucking up all the airtime

The Green Party does show up on the ballots in Michigan at least, but they only have a few spots. Usually just the two or sometimes three.

Trump threatens lawyers, donors and election officials with prison for 'unscrupulous behavior'

Trump and his allies filed dozens of unsuccessful cases after the 2020 election in an attempt to overturn the results.

www.nbcnews.com

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4867678-trump-election-interference-efforts-russia/

 

[Agema]

The reason The Green Party wants to break the two party system starting with The Democrats is because The Democrats are SUPPOSED to be the left wing of the country but they're not. In some aspects they might lean slightly left but they're very much a Centrist party.

This is sort of true. The USA doesn't really have a left wing like many other countries have done. The left is incapable of winning an election in the USA, as it's just too small. In a two-party state, it is necessary to form "broad tent" coalitions covering a wide range of political positions. So the Democrat party is broadly a mix of leftists and liberals (in the slightly mushy US sense of the word), plus whatever moderates it can grab to tip it over the line. The particular problem for leftists being that the stronger the party tacks to the left, the more it is likely to step away from the middle ground where elections are won.

As the saying goes, if Democrats didn't want to get punched when we're punching right, they should stop standing to the right of us.

Sure. As long you're aware that that might also be akin to stabbing the guy directly in front of you when in you're in the second rank of a battle line.

 

[tstorm823]

This is sort of true. The USA doesn't really have a left wing like many other countries have done. The left is incapable of winning an election in the USA, as it's just too small. In a two-party state, it is necessary to form "broad tent" coalitions covering a wide range of political positions. So the Democrat party is broadly a mix of leftists and liberals (in the slightly mushy US sense of the word), plus whatever moderates it can grab to tip it over the line. The particular problem for leftists being that the stronger the party tacks to the left, the more it is likely to step away from the middle ground where elections are won.

The US has a bigger, more ambitious left wing than almost any other nation on Earth, especially yours, the UK is ridiculously conservative. Our left wing is just obscured in national politics by the current two-party system, where left and right are just assumed split between the parties, and everyone outside of the middle is considered a fully captured audience not worth catering to.

The left wins tons of super-relevant elections in the US, they just take place in the Democratic primaries in major cities.

 

[Agema]

The US has a bigger, more ambitious left wing than almost any other nation on Earth, especially yours, the UK is ridiculously conservative.

No, the USA has a big left wing only in the context of the USA. Once you get outside the USA and look at global politics, much of the USA's left wing (by its own internal references) ceases to be recognisable as left wing.

 

[tstorm823]

No, the USA has a big left wing only in the context of the USA. Once you get outside the USA and look at global politics, much of the USA's left wing (by its own internal references) ceases to be recognisable as left wing.

We've done this multiple times, you know that is a truism that you can't actually defend. It's a statement based in nothing that appeals to self-flagellating US lefties and egotistical Europeans, both of whom are completely ignorant of US government.

 

[Agema]

We've done this multiple times, you know that is a truism...

Thank you for admitting I am right.