Ukraine

[Gergar12]

As well they should, US/UK seem determined to make NATO countries a target.

And so Russia should dictate Finland's foreign policy while offering nothing of value to them.

Edit:



Prominent Russians describing Russia and Russian culture:

“A nation that roams Europe and is looking for something to destroy, to simply dust everything.”

– F. M. Dostoevsky

"We are not a nation, we are a crazy hell.”

– Vasyli Rozanov

"Ah, how hard it is to live in Russia, in this place full of the stench of physical and moral deception, a place of wickedness, lies and wickedness.”

– Sergei Aksakov

"The most important sign of victory for the Russian people is their cruelty full of sadism.”

– Maxim Gorky

"The Russian is the biggest and most naughty liar in the world.”

– Ivan S. Turgenev

"A people who hate freedom, worship slavery, love chains on their hands and feet, defiled physically and morally… ready at any time to defile everything and everywhere.”

– Ivan C. Shmeliov

"People regardless of their smallest duty, the smallest justice, the most insignificant truth, the people who do not recognize human dignity, do not generally recognize human freedom or free thought… Alas, how sharp the Russian language is!”

– Aleksandr Pushkin

"We are not a people, but cattle, rats, wild hordes of villains and murderers.”

– Mikhail Bulgakov

 

[Hades]

And so Russia should dictate Finland's foreign policy while offering nothing of value to them.

Edit:



Prominent Russians describing Russia and Russian culture:


– F. M. Dostoevsky

'' I have said that Russians are disliked in Europe... They positively deny our right to European negation, on the ground that they do not regard us as belonging to “civilization.”

They rather perceive in us barbarians knocking about Europe and rejoicing over the thought that something somewhere may be destroyed—destroyed for the sake of destruction, from the pleasure of beholding how all this will fall apart, much as Huns ready to invade ancient Rome and to tear down a sanctity, even without any conception of what a precious thing they were destroying''

I think mister Dostoevsky was more talking about how Europeans perceive Russians with that quote. And he's right. That is how I perceive Russia because that's what Russia has always insisted on being in an almost uninterrupted string of hostility towards its neighbors.

 

[Gergar12]

'' I have said that Russians are disliked in Europe... They positively deny our right to European negation, on the ground that they do not regard us as belonging to “civilization.”

They rather perceive in us barbarians knocking about Europe and rejoicing over the thought that something somewhere may be destroyed—destroyed for the sake of destruction, from the pleasure of beholding how all this will fall apart, much as Huns ready to invade ancient Rome and to tear down a sanctity, even without any conception of what a precious thing they were destroying''

I think mister Dostoevsky was more talking about how Europeans perceive Russians with that quote. And he's right. That is how I perceive Russia because that's what Russia has always insisted on being in an almost uninterrupted string of hostility towards its neighbors.

This itself is very telling of how Russians act.

Rape during the occupation of Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Silvanus]

So, as people probably already know by know, Russia fired an experimental hypersonic ballistic missile (8k mph top speed) at Ukraine (Dnipro). It states this is in response to Ukraine striking Russian territory with ATACMS, Himars, and Storm Shadows.

Russia continues to consider it "escalation" if Ukraine does once or twice what Russia has been doing constantly for 2 years.

Russia has also updated its nuclear doctrine, to include nuclear retaliation to conventional arms being used against Russia. Combined with the missile-- which is nuclear-capable-- the message seems clear.

Had Ukraine not willingly surrendered its own nuclear arsenal, in exchange for a guarantee that Russia would respect its territorial boundaries, it's difficult to imagine we'd be in this position now.

 

[bluegate]

Russia has also updated its nuclear doctrine, to include nuclear retaliation to conventional arms being used against Russia. Combined with the missile-- which is nuclear-capable-- the message seems clear

Still seems like an empty threat, they're well aware that their lives as they have known them will be over once they fire nuclear weapons.

And I don't take them as being that delusional, yet.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

And I don't take them as being that delusional, yet.

I'm not so sure about Putin at this point. He's got to know that pushing the big red button means his legacy becomes Moscow being a glowing parking lot for a few centuries, but at some point he might decide that it's preferable to history seeing him as yet another failed strongman.

 

[Hades]

I'm not so sure about Putin at this point. He's got to know that pushing the big red button means his legacy becomes Moscow being a glowing parking lot for a few centuries, but at some point he might decide that it's preferable to history seeing him as yet another failed strongman.

On the other hand the ruling class of Russia are bandits rather than idealists. They wouldn't have spend decades robbing the Russian state and public blind if they planned to burn down all their loot.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm not so sure about Putin at this point. He's got to know that pushing the big red button means his legacy becomes Moscow being a glowing parking lot for a few centuries, but at some point he might decide that it's preferable to history seeing him as yet another failed strongman.

He may conclude that the West will not retaliate on Ukraine's behalf, if he has an ally in the White House.

 

[Thaluikhain]

On the other hand the ruling class of Russia are bandits rather than idealists. They wouldn't have spend decades robbing the Russian state and public blind if they planned to burn down all their loot.

This.

He may conclude that the West will not retaliate on Ukraine's behalf, if he has an ally in the White House.

Also this...but a hell of a gamble for them.

 

[Gergar12]

So, as people probably already know by know, Russia fired an experimental hypersonic ballistic missile (8k mph top speed) at Ukraine (Dnipro). It states this is in response to Ukraine striking Russian territory with ATACMS, Himars, and Storm Shadows.

Russia continues to consider it "escalation" if Ukraine does once or twice what Russia has been doing constantly for 2 years.

Russia has also updated its nuclear doctrine, to include nuclear retaliation to conventional arms being used against Russia. Combined with the missile-- which is nuclear-capable-- the message seems clear.

Had Ukraine not willingly surrendered its own nuclear arsenal, in exchange for a guarantee that Russia would respect its territorial boundaries, it's difficult to imagine we'd be in this position now.

If I were Ukraine, the moment the Trump administration drops support for them, I would start building dirty bombs.

 

[Hades]

Seems that after having become a Trump endorsing rat Joe Rogan has completely dropped the mask and is now actively rooting for the Russians while bemoaning Ukraine being able to defend itself. In other words he's complete vermin.

Joe Rogan Accuses Biden of Wanting to Spark ‘World War III’

After Biden dropped his opposition to Ukraine using long-range missiles against Russia, Rogan said he’s worried about further escalation.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Seanchaidh]

Had Ukraine not willingly surrendered its own nuclear arsenal, in exchange for a guarantee that Russia would respect its territorial boundaries, it's difficult to imagine we'd be in this position now.

Yeah, the world would have experienced a global thermonuclear war in 2014 in that case.

 

[Silvanus]

Yeah, the world would have experienced a global thermonuclear war in 2014 in that case.

You believe Russia would still have seized Crimea and sponsored the insurgencies then. Given that they've always invaded and annexed non-nuclear, non-NATO countries, I find that unlikely.

 

[Seanchaidh]

You believe Russia would still have seized Crimea and sponsored the insurgencies then.

Overthrowing a nuclear-armed Ukrainian government on behalf of NATO would have been a second Cuban missile crisis regardless.

 

[Hades]

Overthrowing a nuclear-armed Ukrainian government on behalf of NATO would have been a second Cuban missile crisis regardless.

Assuming Putin would still feel safe forcing said president to be his puppet. Or that the Ukrainian people would do so over “NATO “ and not their leader being a traitor. Also periodic reminder that Putin started this all over a trade deal, not NATO.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Or that the Ukrainian people would do so over “NATO “ and not their leader being a traitor.

"The Ukrainian people" didn't overthrow the government. They never had majority support. And it's ridiculous to call an elected president a traitor just because he didn't want to do austerity measures for an IMF loan.

 

[Hades]

"The Ukrainian people" didn't overthrow the government. They never had majority support. And it's ridiculous to call an elected president a traitor just because he didn't want to do austerity measures for an IMF loan.

Its ridiculous to argue the president forcing an unwilling Ukraine into Russia's sphere of influence was somehow a defiant stance against the IMF. He ran on getting Ukraine closer ties to Europe, the public by and large wanted this of him and then he decided to go play the Russian puppet. He absolutely was a traitor, maliciously conspiring to promote a hostile foreign power over his own nation.

 

[Silvanus]

"The Ukrainian people" didn't overthrow the government. They never had majority support.

Though they did have /plurality/ support, which has been more than enough for domestic overthrows for centuries. But regardless-- he was removed by /parliament/, including his own party.

Western interference was very real. And at every step was utterly dwarfed by Russian interference. In Maidan it amounted to a few hundred thousand; peanuts, relatively speaking, nowhere near enough to dominate or fully orchestrate. Once the government lurched into an utterly despised foreign policy, & then launched its lethal crackdown on protesters, its days as the legitimate democratic representative were over.

Since when have you given a shit about majority support, anyway? You're cheerleading for areas that voted by majority to leave Russia to be forcefully reabsorbed.

And it's ridiculous to call an elected president a traitor just because he didn't want to do austerity measures for an IMF loan.

Indeed, which is why he's called a traitor for various other reasons.

 

[Gergar12]

Elon knows better than the aerospace engineers.

/s

 

[Seanchaidh]

Indeed, which is why he's called a traitor for various other reasons.

Are any of them true?

Its ridiculous to argue the president forcing an unwilling Ukraine into Russia's sphere of influence was somehow a defiant stance against the IMF. He ran on getting Ukraine closer ties to Europe, the public by and large wanted this of him and then he decided to go play the Russian puppet. He absolutely was a traitor, maliciously conspiring to promote a hostile foreign power over his own nation.

Agreeing to the terms set by Europe would have been malicious conspiracy to promote a hostile foreign power over his own country.