Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Silvanus]

I love people who clearly weren't paying attention, because Biden was already pushing to depopulate and remove the Palestinians from Gaza. This is literally a lateral move.

Biden endorsed the full, permanent removal of all Palestinians, & US ownership of Gaza? When was this?

Last time someone claimed they were just doing the same thing as before, the citation was for the establishment of evacuation corridors, which is very very very obviously not the same thing.

 

[Agema]

I hope you’re all very proud for knowingly choosing the wrong option for yourselves and Gaza alike.

Consigning millions of people to privation and suffering is a small price to pay for the purity of their consciences.

 

[tstorm823]

Biden never endorsed removing all Palestinians. Democrats obviously endorsed the status quo of perpetually pumping in both aid and ammunition so that the people there can be forever displaced in their own lands, with no ability to develop and no recourse but to hope the aid deliveries outpace the hellfire for as long as possible. That's obviously much more humane than even suggesting that territory be run by someone other than terrorist leaders hiding out amongst the Arab nations.

 

[Agema]

Biden never endorsed removing all Palestinians. Democrats obviously endorsed the status quo of perpetually pumping in both aid and ammunition so that the people there can be forever displaced in their own lands, with no ability to develop and no recourse but to hope the aid deliveries outpace the hellfire for as long as possible. That's obviously much more humane than even suggesting that territory be run by someone other than terrorist leaders hiding out amongst the Arab nations.

I'm pretty sure that's the sort of way of many 1930s Germans put it for how Nazi policies were going to benefit the Jews, too.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm pretty sure that's the sort of way of many 1930s Germans put it for how Nazi policies were going to benefit the Jews, too.

Source?

 

[Chimpzy]

The unrealized potential of Palestinian oil and gas reserves

Geologists and resources economists have confirmed that the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) lies above sizeable reservoirs of oil and natural gas wealth, in Area C of the West Bank and the Mediterranean coast off the Gaza Strip, according to a recent UNCTAD study.

unctad.org

Ah, I see

 

[tippy2k2]

Jesus Fucking Christ, I didn't think my opinion of Liberals could go any lower but alas, here we are.

Let's say for fun that Harris had won the presidency. What do you think would be happening right now?

Anyone not blinded with VBNMW glasses knows exactly what would be; what is currently happening. Do you honestly think that after Biden did absolutely nothing while Palestine was turned into a parking lot the last 18ish months and hundreds of thousands of deaths later that at this point, this is when Kamala "I agree with how Biden has handled this situation 100%" Harris would grow a backbone and stand up to Israel? FUCK NO.

This has ALWAYS been the plan. Trump is just a fucking loud mouth dipshit who screams the quiet parts out loud. The only difference that would be happening today if Harris was in charge is that Libs would still be chilling at fucking brunch because she wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops their plan to let Israel just take everyone out. Israel would just carry out their ethnic cleanse in the shadows while Harris cackles about how she is going to totally stop Israel from crossing this red line, pinky swear promise for realsies this time

I kind of assumed at the very least, Liberals would finally wake up and join the fight against The Genocide with Trump in charge but they can't even do that much. Liberals are all too busy doing a fucking Touchdown Dance over the bodies of Palestinians because Team Red is now the one doing the genocide rather than Team Blue so this proves that they were "right" to vote for The Blue Genocide over The Red Genocide...

 

[Agema]

Source?

Let me explain.

Many Germans supported the idea of a Jewish state and encouraged it as a positive for the Jews themselves. Except they weren't remotely interested in whether it was a positive for the Jews, they just wanted them out of Germany. There is then the subtext of what ended up happening to the Jews.

I'm just really struck by the comment "That's obviously much more humane than even suggesting that territory be run by someone other than terrorist leaders hiding out amongst the Arab nations."

I'm wondering where that's come from. The general context of discussion and the internal context of explicit counterpoint to Biden and the Democratic policy strongly suggests it's describing the Republican plan for Israel. But the Republican president has just announced deliberate ethnic cleansing. I'm not sure the euphemism "territory be run by someone other than terrorist leaders" usefully gets to the full moral awfulness of human rights abuse. What sort of person does that?

Or maybe you meant something else entirely but just said it way too vaguely. You're welcome to explain what on earth it was.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Biden endorsed the full, permanent removal of all Palestinians, & US ownership of Gaza? When was this?

Last time someone claimed they were just doing the same thing as before, the citation was for the establishment of evacuation corridors, which is very very very obviously not the same thing.

Consigning millions of people to privation and suffering is a small price to pay for the purity of their consciences.

Egypt and Jordan didn't allow the humanitarian corridors because Biden had no plans to allow the Palestinians to go back to Gaza after. There are already US soldiers there and have been for the last year. I can't help it if you aren't paying attention.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Let's say for fun that Harris had won the presidency. What do you think would be happening right now?

Probably very little of what Trump has been doing the past few weeks, like pulling out of the Paris Agreement and the W.H.O, 15.00 insurrectionists wouldn't have been pardoned. And that's not even mentioning Musk.

I kind of assumed at the very least, Liberals would finally wake up and join the fight against The Genocide with Trump in charge but they can't even do that much. Liberals are all too busy doing a fucking Touchdown Dance over the bodies of Palestinians because Team Red is now the one doing the genocide rather than Team Blue so this proves that they were "right" to vote for The Blue Genocide over The Red Genocide...

That's assuming a lot from people saying 'I told you so'. You have no proof anyone here isn't fighting for Gaza just as anyone here has no proof you are.

 

[tippy2k2]

Probably very little of what Trump has been doing the past few weeks, like pulling out of the Paris Agreement and the W.H.O, 15.00 insurrectionists wouldn't have been pardoned. And that's not even mentioning Musk

Man, that sounds like it would have been great to stop. Shame Harris cared more about letting Israel do an ethnic cleansing than she did about winning an election so now we all get to pay for her hubris.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Man, that sounds like it would have been great to stop. Shame Harris cared more about letting Israel do an ethnic cleansing than she did about winning an election so now we all get to pay for her hubris.

Again, assumptions.

It's incredibly naive to think the Gaza genocide and Harris' wishy washy attitude toward it is why we're stuck with Trump and Musk now.

 

[thebobmaster]

Jesus Fucking Christ, I didn't think my opinion of Liberals could go any lower but alas, here we are.

Let's say for fun that Harris had won the presidency. What do you think would be happening right now?

Anyone not blinded with VBNMW glasses knows exactly what would be; what is currently happening. Do you honestly think that after Biden did absolutely nothing while Palestine was turned into a parking lot the last 18ish months and hundreds of thousands of deaths later that at this point, this is when Kamala "I agree with how Biden has handled this situation 100%" Harris would grow a backbone and stand up to Israel? FUCK NO.

This has ALWAYS been the plan. Trump is just a fucking loud mouth dipshit who screams the quiet parts out loud. The only difference that would be happening today if Harris was in charge is that Libs would still be chilling at fucking brunch because she wouldn't be screaming from the rooftops their plan to let Israel just take everyone out. Israel would just carry out their ethnic cleanse in the shadows while Harris cackles about how she is going to totally stop Israel from crossing this red line, pinky swear promise for realsies this time

I kind of assumed at the very least, Liberals would finally wake up and join the fight against The Genocide with Trump in charge but they can't even do that much. Liberals are all too busy doing a fucking Touchdown Dance over the bodies of Palestinians because Team Red is now the one doing the genocide rather than Team Blue so this proves that they were "right" to vote for The Blue Genocide over The Red Genocide...

Man, that sounds like it would have been great to stop. Shame Harris cared more about letting Israel do an ethnic cleansing than she did about winning an election so now we all get to pay for her hubris.

Yeah, gotta love how Trump ran on a platform of "Save Gaza/Palestinians!" and ended up winning because of it. No, wait...that's completely not what happened.

Now, would this be happening under Harris? Hell yes, it would. Would you be rubbing in the face of every person who voted for Harris saying we made it happen? Almost certainly. But because I'm not out there trying to force the government that probably wants to deny my own existence for only covering the WAS in WASP, and adding a P and Q to the acronym, to stop what they are doing, I'm now somehow complicit in what's going on and don't care? FUCK THAT NOISE. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but it gets pretty old being blamed for what's happening half a world away because I have no power to do anything about it, other than choose who I want to continue doing the bad shit.

 

[tippy2k2]

Again, assumptions.

It's incredibly naive to think the Gaza genocide and Harris' wishy washy attitude toward it is why we're stuck with Trump and Musk now.

We can't know for 100% but polls have stated that a LOT of people who voted for Biden in in 2020 did not vote for Harris because she said she would keep following Biden's policy on Palestine

Biden voters passed on Kamala Harris because of Gaza, new poll shows

Survey found that Harris lost 'because of the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s genocide of Palestinians'

www.middleeasteye.net

Unfortunately I do not have Dr Strange's powers to see multiple timelines so we can't say for sure but it seemed to very much factor into people's decisions. You can go "Well you can't PROVE that this cost Harris the election" but I can't imagine anyone could, with a straight face at least, argue that Palestine had nothing to do with Harris losing a fuckton of votes compared to what Biden got in 2020 (by the numbers I'm finding, approx 81 million voted for Biden while Harris got approx 76 million votes). SOMETHING caused millions of voters that showed up in 2020 to stay home in 2024. Palestine itself was likely not the only factor but it absolutely was a major part.

 

[tippy2k2]

Yeah, gotta love how Trump ran on a platform of "Save Gaza/Palestinians!" and ended up winning because of it. No, wait...that's completely not what happened.

Now, would this be happening under Harris? Hell yes, it would. Would you be rubbing in the face of every person who voted for Harris saying we made it happen? Almost certainly. But because I'm not out there trying to force the government that probably wants to deny my own existence for only covering the WAS in WASP, and adding a P and Q to the acronym, to stop what they are doing, I'm now somehow complicit in what's going on and don't care? FUCK THAT NOISE. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but it gets pretty old being blamed for what's happening half a world away because I have no power to do anything about it, other than choose who I want to continue doing the bad shit.

Well good thing I didn't vote for Trump either

I'm sorry that Harris was such a shitty candidate that she managed to lose to The Game Show Host but take it up with The Democrats, not me if you want them to actually win again someday.

 

[thebobmaster]

I wish that third-party voting was a viable option. I really do. As it stands, however, it feels like voting third party is just a way of letting a Democrat or Republican win while being able to say "I didn't vote for them, so I can go after whoever did."

 

[Casual Shinji]

We can't know for 100% but polls have stated that a LOT of people who voted for Biden in in 2020 did not vote for Harris because she said she would keep following Biden's policy on Palestine

Biden voters passed on Kamala Harris because of Gaza, new poll shows

Survey found that Harris lost 'because of the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s genocide of Palestinians'

www.middleeasteye.net

Unfortunately I do not have Dr Strange's powers to see multiple timelines so we can't say for sure but it seemed to very much factor into people's decisions. You can go "Well you can't PROVE that this cost Harris the election" but I can't imagine anyone could, with a straight face at least, argue that Palestine had nothing to do with Harris losing a fuckton of votes compared to what Biden got in 2020 (by the numbers I'm finding, approx 81 million voted for Biden while Harris got approx 76 million votes). SOMETHING caused millions of voters that showed up in 2020 to stay home in 2024. Palestine itself was likely not the only factor but it absolutely was a major part.

And (I know we've been through this song and dance already but whatever) how many votes would've been lost by Harris actually "stopping" the genocide or cutting Israel off? Because unfortunately the mainstream media is still very much 'Israel has a right to defend itself', and Harris would've been lambasted an equal amount if not more. Pro-Palestinian protesters were labeled anti-semitic terrorists by Liberals; you think Harris being on their side would've won her the election?!

The Democrates not getting Trump behind bars or at least out of politics in the 4 years they had is a bigger reason why he won. Biden not stepping aside immediately to let Harris run is a bigger reason as to why he won. Trump surviving an assassination attempt is a bigger reason. The Conservatives controlling the narrative is a bigger reason. This attitude of 'haha, see what happens when you don't listen to us' is measuring yourself a lot more power than you actually had. Unless there's boots on the ground Americans overall really don't give too much of a shit what happens overseas.

 

[Silvanus]

Egypt and Jordan didn't allow the humanitarian corridors because Biden had no plans to allow the Palestinians to go back to Gaza after.
There are already US soldiers there and have been for the last year. I can't help it if you aren't paying attention.

A few hundred US troops are not equivalent to US ownership of the region. Evac corridors (even without a solid plan to return) are not equivalent to full and permanent population relocation.

This is sheer denial. We're now in a thread titled "conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates", where people get shouted down if they say things are escalating, because that involves acknowledgement that things weren't always 100% exactly as bad. It's mad.

Pro-Palestinian protesters were labeled anti-semitic terrorists by Liberals; you think Harris being on their side would've won her the election?!

A fair counterpoint to this is that pro-Palestinian protesters get smeared with such labels in some part because of the Democratic Party's positioning. The tail isn't entirely wagging the dog; they throw these accusations, they don't just meekly respond to them.

 

[tstorm823]

Let me explain.

Many Germans supported the idea of a Jewish state and encouraged it as a positive for the Jews themselves.

Source?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

A few hundred US troops are not equivalent to US ownership of the region. Evac corridors (even without a solid plan to return) are not equivalent to full and permanent population relocation

The entire point of this exercise was to remove Palestinians and take their land. Why is Gaza in this position in the first place? Who's bombs led to this? Who was cheerleading this whole affair? History didn't start on January 20th, just like it didn't start in October 2023.

Both those things are equivalent, because that was the point the whole time. Kamala would be talking about humanitarian corridors and US efforts in rebuilding the strip, but it would be dressed up language covering up what is for Trump naked ambition. Ethnic cleansing for a land grab. Middle Eastern leaders are just less naive than you.