US 2024 Presidential Election

Silvanus

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are you confused about what the Berkut was or what?
Nope, the FSB, who were directly involved at the behest of the SBU.

In any case, it seems weird that you of all people would take issue with Ukraine's elected government exercising "agency" and receiving foreign aid in maintaining its security.
It's almost as if a government's right to determine its own policy may extend to defending against foreign invasion, but doesn't extend to brutalising its own populace!
 

Seanchaidh

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It's almost as if a government's right to determine its own policy may extend to defending against foreign invasion, but doesn't extend to brutalising its own populace!
That's what domestic Banderite Nazis are for.
 

Hades

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are you confused about what the Berkut was or what? In any case, it seems weird that you of all people would take issue with Ukraine's elected government exercising "agency" and receiving foreign aid in maintaining its security. But when it's protecting the elected government from Nazi paramilitary street gangs and their snipers, I guess it's different somehow.
On who's behalf did they gain this security? Certainly not on behalf of their citizens or their country which they tried betraying to the Russians. A corrupt president betraying his country to a hostile entity, and then inviting armed forces of said hostile entity to fire at protesters isn't a country showing ''agency''. Yanukovitch wasn't representing Ukraine during Maidan. That was the whole problem Ukraine had with him.
 

Agema

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On who's behalf did they gain this security? Certainly not on behalf of their citizens or their country which they tried betraying to the Russians. A corrupt president betraying his country to a hostile entity, and then inviting armed forces of said hostile entity to fire at protesters isn't a country showing ''agency''. Yanukovitch wasn't representing Ukraine during Maidan. That was the whole problem Ukraine had with him.
The more sympathetic explanation for Yanukovich was that he was representing Ukraine by cancelling plans for a trade deal with Europe because Russia had threatened severe repercussions. It was known that Russia was directing heavy economic pressure on Ukraine, but it's entirely possible that Russia had also told Yanukovich that Russia might take military action against Ukraine. He might not however say that to Ukrainians, because to openly admit to Ukrainians that the country was in effect a vassal state of Russia would have serious downsides. It would make Russia much more unpopular in Ukraine, which could be bad for Ukraine due to general diplomatic friction, and would certainly be bad for him as a pro-Russia politician.

However, there are then all sorts of middle grounds between Yanukovich as a politician honestly trying to do the best for his country and as a Russian stooge, and I suspect it is somewhere in that middle ground. I wouldn't be surprised if in the final analysis, it wasn't so much about national interest as that he was heavily corrupt and probably saw Russia as the source of his and his party's benefit.
 

Silvanus

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That's what domestic Banderite Nazis are for.
You've discovered that state violence can quickly and cheaply be justified by just sticking unsubstantiated, nebulous, and generalised accusations at any & all targets. A tactic with a rich history in Russia and America both! They were no saints eh?
 

Hades

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Grateful for what? Its Biden who helped Ukraine, not Trump. From the very start Trump made it clear he was going to betray Ukraine. Zelensky has nothing to be grateful for.

Apparently Zelensky left with the press conference canceled and the mineral deal not signed. Given how Trump and that piece of trash Vance went out of their way to ambush Zelensky on national TV they likely panned it that way.

What's interesting is that Trump wasn't even uniquely bad(just regular bad) before that piece of trash Vance got involved. This leads to two possibilities.

Either they planned this to humiliate Zelensky and sabotage the deal in order to satisfy Putin. They decided to play ''bad cop, worse cop'' to provoke a fight.

Or Vance manipulated Trump into lashing out, knowing his mentally ill master would get deranged if he started to pick a fight. This Vance might have done out of his personal hatred for Europeans, or because he's owned by Musk and Tiel who are also on Putin's side.
 
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Samtemdo8

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Grateful for what? Its Biden who helped Ukraine, not Trump. From the very start Trump made it clear he was going to betray Ukraine. Zelensky has nothing to be grateful for.

Apparently Zelensky left with the press conference canceled and the mineral deal not signed. Given how Trump and that piece of trash Vance went out of their way to ambush Zelensky on national TV they likely panned it that way.

What's interesting is that Trump wasn't even uniquely bad(just regular bad) before that piece of trash Vance got involved. This leads to two possibilities.

Either they planned this to humiliate Zelensky and sabotage the deal in order to satisfy Putin. They decided to play ''bad cop, worse cop'' to provoke a fight.

Or Vance manipulated Trump into lashing out, knowing his mentally ill master would get deranged if he started to pick a fight. This Vance might have done out of his personal hatred for Europeans, or because he's owned by Musk and Tiel who are also on Putin's side.
Who is Tiel?
 

Agema

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Chimpzy

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This will serve the US people well

Oh, ok, so this is why those chiefs of staff and top lawyers had to go.

Neither Trump or Harris won the election.
 
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Silvanus

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Yup! They have Medicare, Medicaid, and children's entitlement programs all in there. Medicare alone is the size of the entire military budget.
Fair enough. Do you think it likely that none of that cut will come from Medicaid, then?
 

tstorm823

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Fair enough. Do you think it likely that none of that cut will come from Medicaid, then?
It depends: Republican politicians want to believe there are able-bodied people choosing to rely of the government based on questionable diagnoses, and assuredly there are some, but we'd also need some way to both identify and target such abuse of the system. If that can be done, some of the Medicaid spending will drop that way. I do not imagine them cutting Medicaid in significantly broad strokes. But even small percentages would be huge, 5% of Medicare and Medicaid would cover that whole $880bn over 10 years, which is also in the realm of estimates of improper payments and administrative overhead...

So no, I don't think it likely that none of the cut would come from Medicaid, but I also do not see them cutting from the actual payments to recipients.
 

Chimpzy

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Orly? Get rid of it then.

Ah, tried to pull a Cruz


Good, this is what's important right now.
 

meiam

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Orly? Get rid of it then.
It seems, like many american, that Musk and Trump thought that most of the government money was going to "wasteful" program like foreign aid and education and that once those were cut, they could cancel income tax no biggie. But when they started at looking at the number and realized that the federal government is almost entirely social security and medicaid, and that the rest is just little stuff on the side that are ultimately meaningless. And so now they need to find a way to sneak in the idea of canceling those two.

Since Musk called it a ponzi scheme, I guess it means he's gonna try to actually turn it into a ponzi scheme in a way that when it collapse, they'll be in full dictator mode and won't have to worry about the backlash.
 

Agema

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It seems, like many american, that Musk and Trump thought that most of the government money was going to "wasteful" program like foreign aid and education and that once those were cut, they could cancel income tax no biggie. But when they started at looking at the number and realized that the federal government is almost entirely social security and medicaid,
I do seem to recall someone - Paul Krugman maybe? - opining that the government was basically an insurance company with an army.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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It seems, like many american, that Musk and Trump thought that most of the government money was going to "wasteful" program like foreign aid and education and that once those were cut, they could cancel income tax no biggie.
A lot of Republican voters had the idea that 1/3rd of our budget was going to USAID, when it turned out to be about 1/3rd of 1%,