US 2024 Presidential Election

Silvanus

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Jan 15, 2013
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The West literally participated in overthrowing their government.
:mad: Don't they know only Russia are allowed to interfere in Ukraine's politics? That's their sphere of influence!

(1. Western involvement in Maidan was paltry, dwarfed by Russian involvement in Ukrainian politics;
2. Russian integration was dismally unpopular, sorry;
3. The Yanukovych government was even more so when they launched the violent crackdown, assisted by Russian security services).
 

Agema

Do everything and feel nothing
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Mar 3, 2009
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(1. Western involvement in Maidan was paltry, dwarfed by Russian involvement in Ukrainian politics;
Oh god is one of them banging on about that again?

They hate the West so much that it is is very hard for them to understand that any country might desire closer integration with it. Therefore, it needs to be rationalised away that the West has tricked them into liking capitalism and closer integration with the West. And this is the sort of thing I mean by saying that they deny Ukrainians agency. (Although one might contrast that with their enthusiasm for Ukrainian agency when Russia and its Donbas lickspittles run sham referenda.)

I think the worst thing about a lot of their sanctimonious drivel is the way they pretend that they care about people. Actually, I think they're filled with a huge amount of hate and rage. In choosing "wrong" by wanting closer integration with the West, they now hate Ukrainians, and I suspect that's much of why they so freely accept Kremlin propaganda lines: it's so much easier to accept lies about people you hate and some level they want Ukrainians punished and suffering.
 
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Hades

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2013
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The West literally participated in overthrowing their government.
It wasn't ''their government'' anymore. It was Putin's government. And it was the Ukrainian public that kicked the traitor out exactly because of that. Its weird to assume a nation's people wouldn't have any reason to be outraged when their leader turns out to be owned by a hostile power. A hostile power with a very long history of doing Ukraine harm.

nonsense.
It was indeed nonsense that Putin thought he could just publicly parade Yanukovitch as his puppet without this backfiring.