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Trunkage

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Hmm. But it's not cherry picked. There is pretty robust statistical and qualitative data on the effectiveness of gender affirming care in improving quality of life and decreasing suicidal tendency, and the suffering that your approach brings. It's already been provided in the past.

Whereas your 'thousands of years of human history' is a mess of historical misapprehension, along with the foolish assumption that because society did not acknowledge or tolerate something, it therefore didn't exist. By your approach, thousands of years of human history would prove that mental health conditions simply didn't exist, so we should just all agree they still don't.
It's also mistaking thousands of years of human history for thousands of years of particular countries' history. Just because the British forced their ways on us through colonialism, doesn't mean everyone else believed it
 

tstorm823

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All data disagrees with this statement.
It's also mistaking thousands of years of human history for thousands of years of particular countries' history. Just because the British forced their ways on us through colonialism, doesn't mean everyone else believed it
In two posts, you have responded to your own point. You are the one accepting only a narrow set of cultures as data. Why does this supposedly natural phenomenon exist in wildly different rates by geography? Why are all those places where your "everyone else" lives not having the same experience?
 

Silvanus

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They essentially don't exist. We give names to things and treat them as discreet conditions, but nearly all of them aren't actually discreet conditions.
And here's where the last vestige of credibility evaporated.

Your comprehension of what is taught to us by thousands of years of human history is simply what those in power were willing to acknowledge or tolerate throughout it. You have rationalised, backwards, that the lack of acknowledgement means these phenomena didn't exist-- a tendency we are supposed to recognise and overcome in basic historical research for obvious reasons.

And on this basis (bolstered by religious and ideological prejudices against certain groups of people), you're willing to override, ignore, or outright suppress the research and testimony of modern experts and the lived experience of the people themselves.
 

XsjadoBlaydette

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The official legal defense fund for Luigi Mangione has surpassed a million dollars just in time for his 27th birthday! Jamie and Sam talk about what it means to pass this milestone, give some updates on the case, and have a wide angle discussion on the state of the movement.
Luigi did nothing wrong and didn't do it and mario was with him all night as airtight alibi. also epstein didn't kill himself and was low-keyouted as CIA asset/information during his first court sweetheart deal with alan dershowitz and acosta not that anyone seems bothered by CIA shenanigans for some reason as long as they got away with enabling/funding mass murder of all the communists and anyone vaguely adjacent - read left of reagan - overseas




00:00 Intro
05:07 The History of Target Boycotts
13:40 Shopping experience and Covid Cutbacks
26:13 Backlash Against Consumerism
35:45 The DEI Thing
41:30 A Conclusion and a Prediction
45:24 Credits
47:14 The more you know!


CIA chief and ex-White House counsel among figures who met Epstein after his conviction, report says


Documents seen by The Wall Street Journal indicate disgraced financier met with leading figures even after his conviction and jail term



The circle of global power players who continued to meet with Jeffrey Epstein after his first sex conviction was far wider than previously revealed, according to an extensive report fromThe Wall Street Journal published on Sunday.

Using source documents including Epstein’s schedules, the paper identified meetings between the disgraced financier and figures including the current director of the CIA, a former White House lawyer, a college president and a member of an international banking dynasty.

“None of their names appear in Epstein’s now-public ‘black book’ of contacts or in the public flight logs of passengers who traveled on his private jet,” the WSJ reported. “The documents show that Epstein arranged multiple meetings with each of them after he had served jail time in 2008 for a sex crime involving a teenage girl and was registered as a sex offender. The documents, which include thousands of pages of emails and schedules from 2013 to 2017, haven’t been previously reported.”

Epstein, a wealthy and well-connected New York financier, pleaded guilty in June 2008 to one count of solicitating prostitution and one count of soliciting prostitution from someone under the age of 18. He was released from jail the following year but, after a decade of public accusations of abuse by multiple women, was arrested in 2019 on federal sex trafficking charges. He died in jail weeks later and the death was ruled a suicide.

Speculation has always swirled regarding the extent of Epstein’s contacts and the nature of their interactions, and a redacted version published online in 2015 set off a flurry of explanations and denials amongst the world’s elite. The new WSJ report, however, reveals heretofore unknown contacts, some who say they “regret” their association with the sex offender or deny any knowledge of his criminal activities.

The documents used as source material don’t reveal the purpose of most of the meetings and the Journal couldn’t verify whether every scheduled meeting took place, it reported.

William Burns, who became CIA director in 2021, had scheduled meetings with Epstein in 2014 when he was deputy Secretary of State, according to the newspaper – a lunch planned at a Washington DC law office and two scheduled appointments at Epstein’s townhouse.

“After one of the scheduled meetings, Epstein planned for his driver to take Mr. Burns to the airport,” WSJ reported.


A CIA spokeswoman told the Wall Street Journal that Mr Burns remembered being introduced in DC to Epstein by a mutual friend and meeting the financier once briefly in New York but “does not recall any further contact, including receiving a ride to the airport,” she said.

Mr Burns stepped down from the State Department in October 2014 and served as president of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace until he was nominated by President Joe Biden to serve as CIA director. The agency did not immediately return a request for comment from The Independent.

Jeffrey Epstein died in prison while awaiting trial in what was ruled a suicide

Jeffrey Epstein died in prison while awaiting trial in what was ruled a suicide (New York State Sex Offender Registry)

Also reportedly meeting with Epstein in 2014 was Kathryn Ruemmler, White House counsel under President Barack Obama. According to the WSJ, Epstein called Ms Ruemmler in 2014 within weeks of her leaving the White House and “planned a lunch in August 2014 at his townhouse, followed by a series of meetings to introduce her to a wider circle of his acquaintances.”

The disgraced financier and his staff also “discussed whether Ms. Ruemmler, now 52, would be uncomfortable with the presence of young women who worked as assistants and staffers at the townhouse, the documents show,” the paper reported. “Women emailed Epstein on two occasions to ask if they should avoid the home while Ms. Ruemmler was there. Epstein told one of the women he didn’t want her around, and another that it wasn’t a problem, the documents show.”

A spokesperson for Goldman Sachs, where Ms Ruemmler currently serves as chief legal officer and general counsel, told the paper that the lawyer did not see anything concerning at the townhouse.

“Over the next few years, Ms. Ruemmler, then a partner specializing in white-collar defense at Latham & Watkins, had more than three dozen appointments with Epstein, including for lunches and dinners,” the Journal reported.

She told the paper: “I regret ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein.”

A Goldman Sachs spokesperson told The Independent that many of Ms Ruemmler’s contacts involved potential representation of a major foundation, representation of a major bank and “other business opportunities.”

Some who interacted with Epstein following his 2008-2009 conviction and jail stint said they felt he’d served his time.

Leon Botstein, president of Bard College since 1975, told the Journal he first “ visited Epstein’s townhouse in 2012 to thank him for unsolicited donations to Bard’s high schools, then he returned over several years in an attempt to get more donations. In 2015, Epstein donated 66 laptops, the documents show.

“We looked him up, and he was a convicted felon for a sex crime,” Mr Botstein said., adding that the college provides education to prisoners. “We believe in rehabilitation.”

The Bard president also invited Epstein to an opera at the school in 2013 and a concert at the college in 2016, the paper reported.

Mr Botstein had visited the financier’s townhouse and told the paper: “He presented himself as a billionaire, a really, really rich person. I found him odd and arrogant. And what I finally came to believe, which is why we stopped contact with him, is that he was simply stringing us along” regarding donations to the school.

The Bard president did not immediately return a request for comment from The Independent on Sunday.

Another member of academia who associated with Epstein was MIT professor Noam Chomsky, with whom the financier arranged meetings in 2015 and 2016 to discuss geopolitical and academic topics, WSJ reported.

Commenting on the story to The Independent, Mr Chomsky said: “I notice that several people quoted said the obvious: all the reporting has to do with 2015-16, when what was known about Mr Epstein was that he had been sentenced, and therefore had a clean slate according to US law and norms. Britain too.”

The Journal report also included scheduled meetings with powerful international figures; Ariane de Rothschild, now chief executive of the Swiss private bank Edmond de Rothschild Group, had more than a dozen meetings with Epstein, discussing not only business matters but also staffing and furnishings, it reported.

A Frenchwoman who married into the famous de Rothschild banking family, she “bought nearly $1m worth of auction items on Epstein’s behalf in 2014 and 2015, the documents show,” according to the WSJ.

It added: “In 2019, after Epstein was arrested, the bank said that Mrs. de Rothschild never met with Epstein and it had no business links with him.

“The bank acknowledged to the Journal that its earlier statement wasn’t accurate. It said Mrs. de Rothschild met with Epstein as part of her normal duties at the bank between 2013 and 2019, and Epstein introduced the bank to US finance leaders, recommended law firms and provided tax and risk consulting.

“In parallel to that, Epstein solicited her personally on a couple occasions for advice and services on estate management,” the bank told the paper.

“Mrs. de Rothschild had no knowledge of any legal proceedings against Epstein and ‘was similarly unaware of any questions regarding his personal conduct,’ the bank said. After later learning of his behavior, the bank said, ‘she feels for and supports the victims,’” the Journal reported.

A spokesperson for the Edmond de Rothschild Group told The Independent on Sunday that it had no further comment.​



“Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition, who evidently thought that was a sufficient answer and went ahead and hired Acosta. (The Labor Department had no comment when asked about this.)


the world runs on blackmail and greed
 
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BrawlMan

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And here's where the last vestige of credibility evaporated.
tstorm never had that shit to begin with. I don't why it took you over 5 years (I'm assuming you were active in Escapist 1.0 as well) to figure that out.

Variety Magazine are punk ass bitches downplaying the success of Sinners. This somewhat old news, but I didn't see anyone post this here yet.



Good. Fuck those executives.
 
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Agema

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You are the one accepting only a narrow set of cultures as data. Why does this supposedly natural phenomenon exist in wildly different rates by geography? Why are all those places where your "everyone else" lives not having the same experience?
I fear you may be the sort of person who sees the annual rape rate in the USA as 40/100,000 and the rape rate in Uganda as 3/100,000 and thinks that Uganda is a paradise where women are barely ever sexually assaulted.

Although that would also give you the credit of actually looking up some data, which you generally haven't bothered doing thus far in these discussions.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Currently, it seems quite apparent that being diagnosed and treated for transgenderism is worse than if the patient never knew the concept existed in the first place. Regardless of the underlying reality, that makes it a bad diagnosis to perpetuate.
Source: Your ass. Of course, it's no surprise that you pose yourself as a greater expert than the experts; your ego will allow nothing else.
 
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tstorm823

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Your comprehension of what is taught to us by thousands of years of human history is simply what those in power were willing to acknowledge or tolerate throughout it. You have rationalised, backwards, that the lack of acknowledgement means these phenomena didn't exist-- a tendency we are supposed to recognise and overcome in basic historical research for obvious reasons.
You're suggesting that people suffered a disconnect between their sex and social concepts that didn't exist yet. That's not a lack of evidence, that's an anachronism.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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unsure on most appropriate thread whether it matters or not, but is unsettling tale of person haven't heard before


Alex Novell joins us to talk about the story of Jason Itzler aka Mr. Based: pimp, pornographer, lolcow enthusiast, a man who stares directly into the sun daily, and a possible murderer.

Watch the documentary here: https://www.youtube.com/@Alex-Novell
the aforetalked documentary
 

Seanchaidh

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You're suggesting that people suffered a disconnect between their sex and social concepts that didn't exist yet. That's not a lack of evidence, that's an anachronism.
rigid gender binary didn't exist yet? quite right.

there are numerous examples of historical traditions which involve not only tolerating but celebrating genders outside the binary understanding of Victorian England, that is true. and these cultural practices may be regarded as a kind of gender-affirming care as well, suggesting that at least some part of gender dysphoria is social-- which is to say, probably your fault, along with many others. the best way to approach this phenomenon is not the encouragement of ignorance. it probably involves social transformation.

Currently, it seems quite apparent that being diagnosed and treated for transgenderism is worse than if the patient never knew the concept existed in the first place. Regardless of the underlying reality, that makes it a bad diagnosis to perpetuate.
How would you go about trying to test the truth of this "quite apparent" idea? what would be your method?
 
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Silvanus

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You're suggesting that people suffered a disconnect between their sex and social concepts that didn't exist yet. That's not a lack of evidence, that's an anachronism.
No, what didn't exist yet were the descriptive terms and framework we now use to talk about gender, just like the terms and frameworks we use to talk about mental health. The concepts have existed for millenia.

We could use your approach with the same results for almost any condition. Let's carry on with hypertension. There was very little comprehension of the cardiovascular system before ~500 years ago, and as such there is zero recording of suffering from blood pressure issues for >99% of human history. There are accounts of things we can now recognise as blood pressure issues... but they weren't acknowledged as such at the time, so you'll presumably disregard them. Now of course, researchers with modern medical tools have looked into it, have properly talked to the people who experience it, and have identified a course of action that reduces their suffering.

Your approach is the equivalent of denying them access to that medical intervention. You've rationalised that because nobody discussed or recorded suffering from this condition prior to the 1500s, therefore it's a modern invention, and all suffering comes from belief in the condition. They'd be better off if they just agreed the condition didn't exist, nobody suffered from it back then! And on the basis of this pure hypothesis, you'll happily prevent them accessing their proven meds, and insist they just put up with the symptoms, the suffering and death. Even as the community itself tells you their suffering worsens when they do as you say, and even as data shows it does indeed worsen.
 
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thebobmaster

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rigid gender binary didn't exist yet? quite right.

there are numerous examples of historical traditions which involve not only tolerating but celebrating genders outside the binary understanding of Victorian England, that is true. and these cultural practices may be regarded as a kind of gender-affirming care as well, suggesting that at least some part of gender dysphoria is social-- which is to say, probably your fault, along with many others. the best way to approach this phenomenon is not the encouragement of ignorance. it probably involves social transformation.



How would you go about trying to test the truth of this "quite apparent" idea? what would be your method?
Isn't it obvious how you would test it? It's so obvious, he doesn't need to tell you, because it's obvious. Obviously.
 

tstorm823

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How would you go about trying to test the truth of this "quite apparent" idea? what would be your method?
For drawing a convenient line, let's compare to every time and place there have ever been humans without video games, and see how many people are trans.
No, what didn't exist yet were the descriptive terms and framework we now use to talk about gender, just like the terms and frameworks we use to talk about mental health. The concepts have existed for millenia.
People had heart attacks before it was medically understood. We can look back and see the description of it in the words they had at the time, even if they didn't have the phrase heart attack. There's not description of the symptoms lacking modern verbiage, no mysterious conditions we can retrospectively call transgenderism, it's just not there.
 

Trunkage

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In two posts, you have responded to your own point. You are the one accepting only a narrow set of cultures as data. Why does this supposedly natural phenomenon exist in wildly different rates by geography? Why are all those places where your "everyone else" lives not having the same experience?
Because many countries were warped by kings, especially when they got the divine rite of Gods (not just Yahweh). These kings decided that people who were not like them were second-class citizens. In some cultures, women weren't people. For many, anyone looking different was could be a target. Or religion. Or homosexuality. Most of history has been wiped off the face of the planet because of jealous kings who wanted the glory all to themselves
 

Silvanus

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People had heart attacks before it was medically understood. We can look back and see the description of it in the words they had at the time, even if they didn't have the phrase heart attack. There's not description of the symptoms lacking modern verbiage, no mysterious conditions we can retrospectively call transgenderism, it's just not there.
Heart attacks have various causes. And if you're personally invested in arguing that one specific root cause doesn't exist, you can conveniently argue that all historic instances were down to the other causes. I'm afraid every argument you've levelled against gender dysphoria can be levelled against hypertension or any other condition that was only recently described in detail.

Though with neuro-variations, descriptions are often suppressed by those in power, or dismissed and ignored. Think of how often genuine mental health issues will have been termed "hysteria" or general madness or possession or whatever. Think of how the symptoms of autism were easily put down to other things. Think of how even somewhat hidden medical conditions such as endometriosis were overlooked for millenia, because of how poorly reproductive and women's health was dealt with.

Yet even so, descriptions did emerge. Descriptions of feelings and identities that indicate a separation between biological sex and what we would now call 'gender' are there in the historical record. Just as there are historical descriptions of what we would now recognise as autism. Of course, if you tried, you could argue every example was down to something else.... just as you could for hypertension.