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Gordon_4

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Typical Ubi-shit behavior.

You know, all things considered, it's kinda miracle that they made the SW: Outlaw and that Avatar game. They seem to be resistant to make new games that doesn't bring in the big bucks, especially for IPs that they abandoned or has never worked with before.
I bought both of those during the Steam sales. Honestly, Outlaws was very enjoyable. Like, Assassin’s Creed but also Star Wars is one of those ideas that feels like it should be obvious and at latest happened after AC3.

Avatar is kind of fuckin’ with me because I made the mistake of playing in a mode with fewer markers and hud icons. Also the collectathon aspect is actually sensible here because the Na’vi are a hunter-gatherer society so of course you’re hunting for meat and pelts and gathering wood and feathers for arrows. It’s still a little mind number but it doesn’t feel like it’s something you’re doing for game reasons alone.
 

NerfedFalcon

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You got about 13 more remakes coming up soon. This train is not stopping any time soon. A lot of them are looking great, but I have interests in only a few. At least there is great variety.

Out of those, the ones that interest me the most:
-Yakuza Kiwami 3 (as long as Sega have learned from Director's Cut and don't shit the bed)
-Danganronpa 2x2 (SDR2 was the best one and combining it seemingly with V3's visuals is a great idea)
-Persona 4 Revival (never played Reload, but P4 was my second favorite game ever for a while)
-Silent Hill Remake (from the perspective of a non-Silent Hill player, SH2R was a 10/10)
-maybe Dragon Quest 7
 
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Bedinsis

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-Danganronpa 2x2 (SDR2 was the best one and combining it seemingly with V3's visuals is a great idea)
It is the new scenario that has me intrigued. Danganronpa puts a lot of effort into making their characters stand out only for them to drop as flies as the plot progresses. An additional scenario (which I've read as them in essence creating a whole new game from the present assets) with the same cast sounds like a good idea for the players to see more of the cast and to deliver the kind of gameplay people already expect.
 
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CriticalGaming

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You got about 13 more remakes coming up soon. This train is not stopping any time soon. A lot of them are looking great, but I have interests in only a few. At least there is great variety.

Good. Screw remake culture.
I mean I'm the FF7 guy and I'd be a hypocrite to be against remakes.

Frankly I understand them as i find it perfectly reasonable for the companies and even creators to want to take old properties and remake them on modern hardware for a new audience that never got to play those games in the past.

There are two big reasons for this IMO:

1. Back in the Ps1 and 2 era the limitations where huge in terms of making the game a developer might have otherwise envisioned. Today they can revisit that idea and make everything they want come to life in a very clear way. This even works for some 360/Ps3 era games as those systems while in HD where still quite limited in many ways. And just from a pure gameplay perspective I can see wanting to bring things like RE2 into a modern remake because while RE2 is a classic, tank controls are trash and the game plays like shit.

2. New generations of players. I think every here grew up with these old games, and because we've had these experiences we can still go back to play them fairly easily, because we have a childhood understanding of these things. However there are plenty of younger gamers who's first system might be the Ps4 and when you've never had to deal with old shitty game design and controls (like tank) it can be impossible to tolerate going to play old ass games when you're used to the modern era. Remakes allow players unable and unwilling to play the original titles to have the same basic experience of these great games without the friction of shitty early 3D graphics and terrible control schemes.

I can see how people think Remakes are a cash grab for sure. You want new things and I can understand that. But I can also understand why people want Remakes and Remasters because it allows for a low more than being just a copy paste of old shit.
 

BrawlMan

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You want new things and I can understand that. But I can also understand why people want Remakes and Remasters because it allows for a low more than being just a copy paste of old shit.
Here's the best part: there's plenty of new and original good shit out there. Some people are just spoiled or only want it to be "original games" from the AAA sector and not indie. People who claim to want something new, but are just constantly nostalgia blind and living in the past. At the same time, most of these companies aren't forcing these remakes on you, nor getting rid of original versions. Though SEGA and Rockstar can fuck off for that. Most remakes and remasters are pretty good. So it's not like there's been a huge quality drop everywhere.
 

thebobmaster

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Here's the best part: there's plenty of new and original good shit out there. Some people are just spoiled or only want it to be "original games" from the AAA sector and not indie. People who claim to want something new, but are just constantly nostalgia blind and living in the past. At the same time, most of these companies aren't forcing these remakes on you, nor getting rid of original versions. Though SEGA and Rockstar can fuck off for that. Most remakes and remasters are pretty good. So it's not like there's been a huge quality drop everywhere.
Throw in Activision-Blizzard into the scorn pile for literally replacing Warcraft III with Reforged.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Throw in Activision-Blizzard into the scorn pile for literally replacing Warcraft III with Reforged.
But if Warcraft Reforged was great, nobody would have a problem with the old game getting bounced.

Remakes and Remasters are really only a problem if they're bad.
 

thebobmaster

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But if Warcraft Reforged was great, nobody would have a problem with the old game getting bounced.

Remakes and Remasters are really only a problem if they're bad.
No, I think they'd still be upset if the game they had bought was replaced without their consent regardless. Reforged being bad was just insult to injury.
 
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FakeSympathy

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Xbox Microsoft Developer Direct happened today. All games I will talk about will be on game pass on day one.

First, we have Forza Horizon 6. The big feature is there will be courses located in Japan. The car models, as well as the backdrops of locations in Japan looks great, ngl. And I actually visited some of those locations myself, so it was a bit surreal to see them re-created in the game.

Now you can attempt those sick drifts from Initial-D anime/manga, while playing Deja vu in the background.....And they just referenced it as I am writing this

Next we have Beast of Incarnation from Game Freak. Yes, the same guys behind Pokemon. And wouldn't you know it, their creature designs are pretty cool!. They go on about how this is gonna be a new experience, and it looks like a combination of Monster Hunter, Nier, and Sekiro (although not as up-tight on the parry window).

Third game to showcase is Klin. So the concept is you get to design your own Pottery, then have 4v4 party-style pvp matches. Each maps will have their own set of environmental challenges and paths, and the goal is to take out the enemy team's objectives. And depending the shape of your pottery, it will have its own unique set of moves, pros and cons. The more you level up, the more design options you have for your creation. They are all supposed to impact gameplay.

NGL, this is a very cool idea. But it seems vulnerable to live-service format, or god-forbid p2w mechanics.

Finally, we have update on the Fable reboot..... actually, this seems to be as pre-quel to the first game, set several decades before. You will become the first legendary hero of Albion. What makes the game interesting is that it seem to deliver most of the promises made by Peter all those years ago. For example, this game being an actual open-world game, and having children..... Now where is my acorn tree?

The environment looks colorful and amazing. Definitely in the spirit of the franchise.

For everyone who didn't like the initial female protagonist design in the first reveal, turns out you can customize your character, and have them be either Male or Female.
 
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BrawlMan

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Xbox Microsoft Developer Direct happened today. All games I will talk about will be on game pass on day one.

First, we have Forza Horizon 6. The big feature is there will be courses located in Japan. The car models, as well as the backdrops of locations in Japan looks great, ngl. And I actually visited some of those locations myself, so it was a bit surreal to see them re-created in the game.

Now you can attempt those sick drifts from Initial-D anime/manga, while playing Deja vu in the background.....And they just referenced it as I am writing this

Next we have Beast of Incarnation from Game Freak. Yes, the same guys behind Pokemon. And wouldn't you know it, their creature designs are pretty cool!. They go on about how this is gonna be a new experience, and it looks like a combination of Monster Hunter, Nier, and Sekiro (although not as up-tight on the parry window).

Third game to showcase is Klin. So the concept is you get to design your own Pottery, then have 4v4 party-style pvp matches. Each maps will have their own set of environmental challenges and paths, and the goal is to take out the enemy team's objectives. And depending the shape of your pottery, it will have its own unique set of moves, pros and cons. The more you level up, the more design options you have for your creation. They are all supposed to impact gameplay.

NGL, this is a very cool idea. But it seems vulnerable to live-service format, or god-forbid p2w mechanics.

Finally, we have update on the Fable reboot..... actually, this seems to be as pre-quel to the first game, set several decades before. What makes the game interesting is that it seem to deliver most of the promises made by Peter all those years ago. For example, this game being an actual open-world game, and having children..... Now where is my acorn tree?

The environment looks colorful and amazing. Definitely in the spirit of the franchise.

For everyone who didn't like the initial female protagonist design in the first reveal, turns out you can customize your character, and have them be either Male or Female.
Thanks for taking one for the team.
 

NerfedFalcon

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2. New generations of players. I think every here grew up with these old games, and because we've had these experiences we can still go back to play them fairly easily, because we have a childhood understanding of these things. However there are plenty of younger gamers who's first system might be the Ps4 and when you've never had to deal with old shitty game design and controls (like tank) it can be impossible to tolerate going to play old ass games when you're used to the modern era. Remakes allow players unable and unwilling to play the original titles to have the same basic experience of these great games without the friction of shitty early 3D graphics and terrible control schemes.
One of the major other issues in the industry is the lack of access to those older titles. While there are some developers who keep their older game catalogs alive one way or another, and GoG's efforts to badger people into opening their vaults, there's still a lot of games that you just can't (legally) obtain anymore. I imagine that developers would be a lot less prone to remake/remaster "cash grabs" if they had to keep those originals around for people to buy, but they don't.

Shit, I wanted to play the original Silent Hill 2 myself, but do you know how much it costs to get a copy these days? People know what they have, and they're not gonna give it up for free. The cheapest one I could find was $120, and I also don't even own a Playstation 2 so I'd have to get that as well - or, I can buy a copy of the remake for PS5 for a lot less than that and enjoy the hell out of it (which I did). I do still want to play the original, but I'm waiting for GoG to snag it somehow, basically.

tl;dr: If you want fewer remakes/remasters to get made, join Stop Killing Games.
 

CriticalGaming

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One of the major other issues in the industry is the lack of access to those older titles. While there are some developers who keep their older game catalogs alive one way or another, and GoG's efforts to badger people into opening their vaults, there's still a lot of games that you just can't (legally) obtain anymore. I imagine that developers would be a lot less prone to remake/remaster "cash grabs" if they had to keep those originals around for people to buy, but they don't.

Shit, I wanted to play the original Silent Hill 2 myself, but do you know how much it costs to get a copy these days? People know what they have, and they're not gonna give it up for free. The cheapest one I could find was $120, and I also don't even own a Playstation 2 so I'd have to get that as well - or, I can buy a copy of the remake for PS5 for a lot less than that and enjoy the hell out of it (which I did). I do still want to play the original, but I'm waiting for GoG to snag it somehow, basically.

tl;dr: If you want fewer remakes/remasters to get made, join Stop Killing Games.
But most of that is a result of the industry not knowing any better realistically. When the SNES was coming out nobody gave a fuck that the system wouldn't play NES games. And the industry just sort of assumed that people would move on from old platforms the same way they were.

Ultimately it's a lot of bad planning and lack of foresight that is now biting the industry in the ass a little bit.

However there are other issues in regards to keeping old titles alive. Namely licensing a lot of games are bound my music contracts, IP contracts, and all that legal shit where even if they WANT to, they wouldn't legally be allowed to keep a title on any store front without continuously paying a fee for it forever. And most old games aren't worth that to them because they aren't going to make that money back from sales of old titles. Let alone the hosting costs and the like.

The Stop Killing games is just a pipe dream that doesn't work legally. The only really solution is to allow people to freely emulate and make roms of titles to distribute for free once contracts expire. Even then someone somewhere is paying to host private servers or whatever the fuck.

Also look at games like Concord, even if they let you have the server code to run private servers, who the fuck is going to keep playing online titles to justify that effort. Some games just have to die due to their very nature, there really isn't any way to prevent that.
 

Ezekiel

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I mean I'm the FF7 guy and I'd be a hypocrite to be against remakes.

Frankly I understand them as i find it perfectly reasonable for the companies and even creators to want to take old properties and remake them on modern hardware for a new audience that never got to play those games in the past.

There are two big reasons for this IMO:

1. Back in the Ps1 and 2 era the limitations where huge in terms of making the game a developer might have otherwise envisioned. Today they can revisit that idea and make everything they want come to life in a very clear way. This even works for some 360/Ps3 era games as those systems while in HD where still quite limited in many ways. And just from a pure gameplay perspective I can see wanting to bring things like RE2 into a modern remake because while RE2 is a classic, tank controls are trash and the game plays like shit.

2. New generations of players. I think every here grew up with these old games, and because we've had these experiences we can still go back to play them fairly easily, because we have a childhood understanding of these things. However there are plenty of younger gamers who's first system might be the Ps4 and when you've never had to deal with old shitty game design and controls (like tank) it can be impossible to tolerate going to play old ass games when you're used to the modern era. Remakes allow players unable and unwilling to play the original titles to have the same basic experience of these great games without the friction of shitty early 3D graphics and terrible control schemes.

I can see how people think Remakes are a cash grab for sure. You want new things and I can understand that. But I can also understand why people want Remakes and Remasters because it allows for a low more than being just a copy paste of old shit.
I don't even know where to begin.

1. Graphical limitations were often good because they kept costs down, which encouraged experimentation and creativity, and made developers think outside the box. Games could also be stranger because they didn't have to conform to the blandness of photorealism, which explains the absence of a giant bug and a massive underground chamber in your RE2 remake example. Remaking games is just about adapting everything to current popular trends and expectations regardless of if it actually fits the game, as I demonstrated with my analysis of the mechanical problems in the Virtuous Mission in MGS Delta.

2. Nothing stops them. People easily get into old movies, music, books, comics. Only with games do they have this widespread issue. Even though the games were simpler in terms of input than the new that make you also handle the two sticks with fully controllable cams and aiming, triggers and more systems for badly implemented checkbox design that's always so broad because they want to appeal to every gamer instead of specializing for fewer. If it's not on current systems, if it's no longer for sale, buy the hardware and software or get an emulator. It's not that hard.

1B. The original RE2 is better. I'm too lazy to search my old posts about the problems that came from stuffing modern third person shooting into those small environments and everything else that was inferior, but off the top of my head, spongy enemies and crappy music (and the original music DLC didn't match the new blander tone of the story). Also, locations of some items made less sense, because they changed them for the sake of it.
 
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Ezekiel

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I actually deleted everyone on my Steam friends list who had MGS Delta wishlisted, months ago. Was shocked by how many there were.
 

NerfedFalcon

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However there are other issues in regards to keeping old titles alive. Namely licensing a lot of games are bound my music contracts, IP contracts, and all that legal shit where even if they WANT to, they wouldn't legally be allowed to keep a title on any store front without continuously paying a fee for it forever. And most old games aren't worth that to them because they aren't going to make that money back from sales of old titles. Let alone the hosting costs and the like.
Then blame the people who made licensing a Byzantine mess that prevents things that are already licensed from being kept available in the first place.
The Stop Killing games is just a pipe dream that doesn't work legally. The only really solution is to allow people to freely emulate and make roms of titles to distribute for free once contracts expire. Even then someone somewhere is paying to host private servers or whatever the fuck.

Also look at games like Concord, even if they let you have the server code to run private servers, who the fuck is going to keep playing online titles to justify that effort. Some games just have to die due to their very nature, there really isn't any way to prevent that.
I was mostly joking about SKG at the end, since what they actually do isn't so much related to the topic, but that kind of preservation's still important, including of bad games. Even if it's just a stepping stone to the 'real solution', you don't not get on a bus just because you need to change routes.

Places like EmuParadise from back in the day prove that, if given the tools to do so, people will preserve entire libraries because they can and want to, regardless of quality, and that's important. Private servers for MMOs from as far back as the 1990s prove that people still want to play games with a 'shelf life'. Calling it 'nature' doesn't make it any more right that those things should be forgotten, even if they're like Concord.

Do not turn that into me saying that I liked Concord. I never even played the game. But if you won't stick up for preserving games in general, even the bad ones, then the people in charge of deciding which games get re-released through places like Virtual Console are never going to have everything you want, and devs are going to keep falling down the same holes every few years because they don't have the 'what not to do' guide available.

At least that's how I see it.
 
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FakeSympathy

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Straight to PS5 hahaha. Good job Xbox, your system is irrelevant.
Like I said, the game looks really good, and seems to make all of Peter's rambling come true. Nothing wrong with the game itself.

....Which is all the more reasons why it should be a console exclusive, and release it later on other platforms. PS got this right, and I don't understand why it's so difficult for MS
 
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