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Silvanus

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I read it... Common cold mainly transfers via air. You aren't going to get clusters of transmissions from people touching things in stores.
"Mainly".

Do you understand what that means? It doesn't mean there are no other significant vectors. Read your own link properly: it talks about fomite transmission as a lesser, but still active, vector.

What you said is not that it's theoretically possible to get sick from a fraction of a sneeze (which, ok, sure, probably extremely rare but possible), you said a small fraction of a sneeze holds many times over the infectious dose, thus it sounds rather likely to get sick then, doesn't it?
It does, undeniably, hold many times over the infectious dose. Most of that will die/deactivate in the air or fall to the ground. But yes, if others are nearby, a not insignificant amount will be inhaled, or interact with the mucus membranes (nasal, ocular, or in the throat). Much of those will still be deactivated by the immune response.

Its not super likely to get sick from being nearby someone who sneezes once. But its not negligible, either; you could still have inhaled well above the dose, at which point it will depend on the robustness of your immune system. Two or three sneezes? A few minutes of repeated coughing and sneezing? You're multiplying the number of active viral agents in the air into the millions.
 

Hades

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Agema

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Good. Now to find a way to get rid of the rest.
Unfortunately the trick is to sacrifice some expendable, second-rate, low-lifes like him precisely because it creates an illusion of justice that helps the really powerful people continue to get away with it.
 

Thaluikhain

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Unfortunately the trick is to sacrifice some expendable, second-rate, low-lifes like him precisely because it creates an illusion of justice that helps the really powerful people continue to get away with it.
While that is true, it is still something on an improvement on all of them getting away with it, which was previously the case.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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Unfortunately the trick is to sacrifice some expendable, second-rate, low-lifes like him precisely because it creates an illusion of justice that helps the really powerful people continue to get away with it.
He is a member of the royal family and brother of the King. Water's getting pretty hot when they use someone that high up as a fall guy.
 

Thaluikhain

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He is a member of the royal family and brother of the King. Water's getting pretty hot when they use someone that high up as a fall guy.
Depends who "they" are though. If it's British people, then yes, though if it were people in the US behind it, well, cutting ties with Europe is what they do.
 

thebobmaster

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Notice how he wasn't actually arrested for anything in the files, but because he shared them in a way that broke confidentiality. It's sort of like how Nixon was impeached not because of the Watergate break-in as such, but trying to cover it up, but in this case, the opposite of a cover-up is what was happening.
 

Hades

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Unfortunately the trick is to sacrifice some expendable, second-rate, low-lifes like him precisely because it creates an illusion of justice that helps the really powerful people continue to get away with it.
That's possible. Formally as prince Andrew would be the highest ranking of the bunch, but in practice and wealth he's likely the absolute runt of the litter and easily sacrificed. The few arrests mostly being in Europe while the American criminals get off scott free or become president might also reflect it largely being a conspiracy by and for Americans with the European members lower on the pecking order.

That said one of their own being sentenced does set a nasty precedent they likely don't want to set, and Andrew's status as former prince makes him too public a figure to really make him an effective distraction. And while the Europeans baring the brunt of the legal cases could be due to them being sacrificed by the Americans, it could also just reflect Europe being less captured by corporate interests which explains why the Epstein class has always wanted to do us harm.
 

Phoenixmgs

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"Mainly".

Do you understand what that means? It doesn't mean there are no other significant vectors. Read your own link properly: it talks about fomite transmission as a lesser, but still active, vector.



It does, undeniably, hold many times over the infectious dose. Most of that will die/deactivate in the air or fall to the ground. But yes, if others are nearby, a not insignificant amount will be inhaled, or interact with the mucus membranes (nasal, ocular, or in the throat). Much of those will still be deactivated by the immune response.

Its not super likely to get sick from being nearby someone who sneezes once. But its not negligible, either; you could still have inhaled well above the dose, at which point it will depend on the robustness of your immune system. Two or three sneezes? A few minutes of repeated coughing and sneezing? You're multiplying the number of active viral agents in the air into the millions.
Yes, but you don't even get infection clusters from stores via airborne let alone from surfaces. A store is not some risky place in terms of getting sick.

An infectious dose is how many microbes it takes to make you sick, meaning get past your defenses. Saying a sneeze alone has many times over the infectious dose means you are telling people that a single sneeze could easily get you sick if you inhale some of it. That isn't true.
 

Silvanus

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Yes, but you don't even get infection clusters from stores via airborne let alone from surfaces. A store is not some risky place in terms of getting sick.
K. Once again, your own source recognises fomite transmission as a non-negligible vector.

An infectious dose is how many microbes it takes to make you sick, meaning get past your defenses. Saying a sneeze alone has many times over the infectious dose means you are telling people that a single sneeze could easily get you sick if you inhale some of it. That isn't true.
No, "saying a sneeze alone has many times over the infectious dose" means nothing more than that. There are obviously dozens of other factors-- which I explicitly acknowledged-- that will determine how much of that actually gets into someone. It will be a small fraction.

Yet, my point is that even a small fraction can be enough, if the proximity and saturation are that high. It's pretty unlikely from a single sneeze. But a couple of minutes of repeated coughing and sneezing, and you're well into the tens of millions.
 

Phoenixmgs

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K. Once again, your own source recognises fomite transmission as a non-negligible vector.



No, "saying a sneeze alone has many times over the infectious dose" means nothing more than that. There are obviously dozens of other factors-- which I explicitly acknowledged-- that will determine how much of that actually gets into someone. It will be a small fraction.

Yet, my point is that even a small fraction can be enough, if the proximity and saturation are that high. It's pretty unlikely from a single sneeze. But a couple of minutes of repeated coughing and sneezing, and you're well into the tens of millions.
Again if the dominant factor doesn't cause clusters, how is the non-dominant factor going to do that?

You didn't just say it can be enough, you said it was many times over an infectious dose, that's a ridiculous statement.
 

Silvanus

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Again if the dominant factor doesn't cause clusters, how is the non-dominant factor going to do that?
Doesn't cause clusters according to you. Clusters obviously do happen in the reality in which the rest of us live.

You didn't just say it can be enough, you said it was many times over an infectious dose, that's a ridiculous statement.
Reread it.

Many times over the infectious dose is contained in the sneeze. Most of which dies in the air or falls to the ground.
 

Hades

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A lot has been said about the divide between politics and the public. A lot of this has to do with corruption and broken promises, but to a large extend the public themselves are also to blame. They neither know what they want, nor do they care to actually find out what parties stand for before they cast their vote.

Trump is of course the obvious example but also low hanging fruit. Lets bring this closer to home. The Dutch will have a new government and public reaction to the coalition accord has been very grumpy due to putting all the burdens on the lower incomes. But during last election there was a shift away from labour and towards the center right D66, while at the same time the public declined to punish the right wing VVD for the decade+ of misrule. So now the new government consist of three right wing parties.....so duh! Of course they'll tax the poor instead of the rich. So why is the public angry? Did they not deliberately sideline the left in favor of center to hard right?

D66 is progressive on social issues but right wing economically, and the VVD is the rich people party. None of these policies are surprising. No one has been tricked. Yet austerity, less wellfare and the rich being cuddled was somehow a surprise to the public, and they're grumpy because of it.

Same happened last election. Saint Omtzigt ran on ''good governance'' and somehow the people who voted for him on vibes never heard him speak or read a single one of policies. Those voters very firmly wanted him to govern with Wilders. That saint Omtzigt was a fraud who actually did it doesn't change the fact his voters all but demanded he govern with his polar opposites, and then felt betrayed when Omtzigt broke all his promises.

Or our British friends. Brexit has now been widely regarded as a failiure and deception. And who do they turn to in order to set things right? Mister frigin Brexit.
 

Agema

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A lot has been said about the divide between politics and the public. A lot of this has to do with corruption and broken promises, but to a large extend the public themselves are also to blame. They neither know what they want, nor do they care to actually find out what parties stand for before they cast their vote.
The public are to an extent limited by the conditions they operate in, and increasingly it feels like society has been internet-ised... and not in a good way. Driven by outrage, clickbait, short attention spans, mass disinformation if not outright dishonesty. As you note, it beggars belief that a the chief author of what is widely recognised as the worst policy Britain has enacted in decades is currently heading the polls. It's very febrile, vibes-driven.

An issue with democracy is always going to be entrusting selection of governance to people who may have a poor insight into governance; some protection over the quality of information for the public seems sensible. Just at the moment, I feel what we're actually going for is the infopocalypse: a world where increasingly little becomes reliably knowable at every level of society: even things like scientific output that is supposed to be reviewed and verified will increasingly be overrun by fraud and bullshit.

And honestly, I think this is also deliberate. Some is information warfare from external sources. But I think the elites are nearly always ambivalent about democracy, because the thing about being elite is thinking people should listen to you, not vice versa. Some like Peter Thiel openly expresses their hostility (and his scion is currently VP of the USA). The eliets look at the people and fear being taxed, regulated, their monopolies and cartels being broken up, they resent being expected to appear before Congress and answer for their behaviour. Of course they like the idea they can just pay a corrupt president a few million in protection money, and he'll make sure that they are looked after. It's even cheaper and more predictable than a major court case.

And then you have a look at China - it's the future. Not necessarily in whether it ends up the most powerful country on Earth (although it probably will) but that it represents a state that mostly successfully controls information flow to benefit and perpetuate itself, to direct the people to the will of its rulers. That's where we're going, maybe in a different shape, but going nonetheless.
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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White rich boys not doing ok lol



It's Scientology. There, made it easy for you.


It's fake anti-woke scammer. There, made it - oh and also a(nother failed) tim pool a side project too - easy for you. Can call him dim tool, it's ok, he probably likes it plus is accurate.
 
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