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tstorm823

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There's a reason Trump is fighting against records from his presidency (either term) being a matter of government record, and it's not his alleged belief in transparency.
Because Democrats have defined their entire current party on opposing the right, particularly Trump, and in that paradigm, nothing is a tool for justice or stability, all things are political hammers.
 

Hades

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Because Democrats have defined their entire current party on opposing the right, particularly Trump, and in that paradigm, nothing is a tool for justice or stability, all things are political hammers.
If that was the case Trump likely would not have been president. If anything Trump was treated far too mild out of the outdated belief that we cannot be too hard on aristocrats , which we are now paying the price for. Not saying that they do not oppose Trump since any official or politician with even the smallest sense of responsibility should , but they are not trying as hard as they should.

The Republicans did take the stance you speak off towards Obama and Biden. The difference being that there is nothing to oppose since they are the utterly mundane centrist or even center right politicians that there always have been and always will be. Which is not the case with Trump where there is actually something to oppose. At best Trump achieving his goals will mutate the US into taking over Russia's barbaric system and at worst it will be even worse than that.

Why not oppose one who admires Vladimir friging Putin and seeks to serve the ends of complete vermin like Musk and Thiel? There is nothing to lose and everything to prevent if those freaks do not get their way.
 
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tstorm823

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If that was the case Trump likely would not have been president. If anything Trump was treated far too mild out of the outdated belief that we cannot be too hard on aristocrats , which we are now paying the price for.
If you think that is why Trump is president,you understand nothing. I'm not saying they should have been less harsh, though I would also say that for the most part, the problem is it has no basis. There are many reasons to oppose Trump, but they've made it clear they don't need one. They will invent crimes and flip their own positions if needed. People like when someone opposed a bad thing because of a reason, not when they go hunting for a reason, especially with Trump where it's just so obvious that they would do almost the exact same things if Hillary had won instead.
 

Hades

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If you think that is why Trump is president,you understand nothing. I'm not saying they should have been less harsh, though I would also say that for the most part, the problem is it has no basis. There are many reasons to oppose Trump, but they've made it clear they don't need one. They will invent crimes and flip their own positions if needed. People like when someone opposed a bad thing because of a reason, not when they go hunting for a reason, especially with Trump where it's just so obvious that they would do almost the exact same things if Hillary had won instead.
I find that stance to be weird. Both impeachment scenarios are among the most sensible basis to go after him even if we operate under the assumption that goofy old Trump just caused a wildly outrageous ''misunderstanding'' that causes people to storm the capitol or Zelensky feeling pressured without him meaning any of it. Even if it really was all just misunderstanding and accidents should a nation not get to the bottom of it? Because I would be pretty worried if people stormed my parliament on behalf of a politician that had been lying to them for months, and if everyone shrugged it off as just a goofy accident that needs no investigation.

Not to mention all the extreme corruption. Its kinda hard to argue that Trump using the presidency to enrich himself and his family is just others trying to hunt for reasons to make him look bad.
 

tstorm823

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I find that stance to be weird. Both impeachment scenarios are among the most sensible basis to go after him even if we operate under the assumption that goofy old Trump just caused a wildly outrageous ''misunderstanding'' that causes people to storm the capitol or Zelensky feeling pressured without him meaning any of it. Even if it really was all just misunderstanding and accidents should a nation not get to the bottom of it? Because I would be pretty worried if people stormed my parliament on behalf of a politician that had been lying to them for months, and if everyone shrugged it off as just a goofy accident that needs no investigation.

Not to mention all the extreme corruption. Its kinda hard to argue that Trump using the presidency to enrich himself and his family is just others trying to hunt for reasons to make him look bad.
The efforts to impeach him began before he took office.
 

Hades

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The efforts to impeach him began before he took office.
As is already filing cases or doing research on what steps to take or put guardrails in place?

And if the later could that be because Trump was so defined by corruption it was needed to already prepare on what to do when his corruption inevitably became a problem? Sounds more a case of Trump just being inherently unfit.

And the two impeachment procedures that actually got filed were on subjects it would be extremely irresponsible for a nation not to do so for.
 
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Trunkage

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As is already filing cases or doing research on what steps to take or put guardrails in place?

And if the later could that be because Trump was so defined by corruption it was needed to already prepare on what to do when his corruption inevitably became a problem? Sounds more a case of Trump just being inherently unfit.

And the two impeachment procedures that actually got filed were on subjects it would be extremely irresponsible for a nation not to do so for.
I mean, there were treasonous crimes that were done before the election. And I mean treason in the literal sense as treason was found and people went to jail. Are we asking the government not to look into treason?

Actually, looking at what the DOJ has done recently, the answer is: if it helps Trump, yes ignore it.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Hades

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Because you see the world through your desired conclusions rather than concluding things based on what's actually there to see.
So if a politician lies a crowd into a berserk rage and they storm the capitol on his behalf you think everyone should just shrug and assume the politician to blame did not mean any of it? Or that if an openly corrupt businessman becomes president everyone should just assume he magically becomes honest?

That is you operating from a desired conclusion. You are advocating for all red flags, prior conduct and even basic responsible governance to be ignored because you like the guy.
 
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tstorm823

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So if a politician lies a crowd into a berserk rage and they storm the capitol on his behalf you think everyone should just shrug and assume the politician to blame did not mean any of it? Or that if an openly corrupt businessman becomes president everyone should just assume he magically becomes honest?

That is you operating from a desired conclusion. You are advocating for all red flags, prior conduct and even basic responsible governance to be ignored because you like the guy.
Is there any other protest-turned-riot in all of human history that you would blame on a single person this way?
 

Silvanus

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No, I mean is the department of justice oversight. That is the oversight that would prevent Trump from "settling" a case with himself on whatever terms he likes. Without this explicit fund, that is who stands in his way, and you seem to value that oversight, but describe them as "controlled by the same man" in the next breath.
Answer is the same. The DOJ is supposed to provide oversight, albeit insufficient.

Government corruption is not novel. Paying off allies is not new. Why would he use a new, novel process to do what he already could have?
"Paying off allies" usually amounts to a few hundred thousand at most. Usually through allocations from existing funds or wrongly awarded contracts or something of the like.

Funnelling almost 2 billion dollars to a slush fund at once clearly requires a pretty massive new allocation.
 

Hades

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Is there any other protest-turned-riot in all of human history that you would blame on a single person this way?
Sure. With plenty I would , and with far right protests practically every time. But this is not any protest turned riot. This is a protest turned extremely charitably speaking into a riot due to anger Trump was deliberately stoking with months if not years worth of lying.
 
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Cicada 5

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Spoilers for the finale of "The Boys"
Elon Musk apparently really didn't like that series finale had Homelander begging for his life, including offering sexual favors if Butcher spared him.

All across social media, right wingers are losing their minds that the sadistic, murderous rapist who only got away with his crimes for as he did because of his superpowers and a powerful corporation backing him was revealed to be nothing but a sniveling, cowardly bully once his protections were stripped from him.
 

bluegate

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Spoilers for the finale of "The Boys"
Elon Musk apparently really didn't like that series finale had Homelander begging for his life, including offering sexual favors if Butcher spared him.

All across social media, right wingers are losing their minds that the sadistic, murderous rapist who only got away with his crimes for as he did because of his superpowers and a powerful corporation backing him was revealed to be nothing but a sniveling, cowardly bully once his protections were stripped from him.
There were still idiots out there who weren't aware that Homelander was the bad guy of the series...
 
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tstorm823

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Answer is the same. The DOJ is supposed to provide oversight, albeit insufficient.
In that case, this fund is irrelevant. Nothing has meaningfully changed in your eyes, we moved from "Trump controlled people are insufficient oversight" to "other Trump controlled people are insufficient oversight".

If we think this isn't a completely meaningless action, we'd assume paying out these people is not the DOJ's prerogative, such that Trump is getting something he didn't have before. For that to be the case, the DOJ is opposed to the lawsuit. If that's the case, this is an actual settlement, which is what anyone not soaking in conspiracy theories would think in the first place. All that work to get back to the most obvious answer.
 

tstorm823

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Beer Hall Putsch
A) At what level is "Hitler declared the government to be overthrown" a protest or riot?"
B) The one person who you blame was the leader who directly planned and participated, not "well, his lies inspired people".