Don't worry about it, that's not the point.
The point is that you complied with the police and survived, as opposed to challenging them to hand-to-hand combat and ending up dead.
National Guard called into Minneapolis
- Thread starter crimson5pheonix
- Start date
- Status
The point is that you complied with the police and survived, as opposed to challenging them to hand-to-hand combat and ending up dead.
Thank you. You've neatly summed while why there is never ending amount of protests happening now.
These things matter to me. They matter to the tons of other people who are pulled over every day, harassed for nothing, who ask other people to drive in certain neighborhoods, and feel equally as helpless dealing with the police as they do with the criminals. These things bother us. They make us feel criminal to our soul when we've done nothing wrong. We shouldn't get harassed for no reason. Searched and questioned for no other reason than we were there. We should be able to look at law enforcement as a part of our community, not the overseers who couldn't care less about us. In situations like these, We feel weak, powerless, and like we do not matter.
And then someone comes along and tells us how to feel about our personal situations and how it shouldn't matter that much.
That is the cherry of this crap cake we've served every day and told to enjoy. Not only do we have to feel this way from the Police, but then we have the populace tell us that it's not something to worry about. That in our own lives and with our own feelings, we've missed the point of the situations we've experienced.
You can't imagine the Frustration that generates.
Isn't it "Black LIVES Matter", not "Black Feelings Matter"?
And yes, you did miss the point, because we were discussing whether or not it's reasonable to try and wrench an officer's gun out of their hands (it isn't), and whether or not it's advisable to engage an officer in hand-to-hand combat instead of just complying (it isn't). So when you start talking about how complying made you feel bad, yeah, while that might be true, that's missing the point.
Last edited:
A man is explaining to you why black people don’t get along with cops, explaining how he’s been threatened with a gun and pinned against a wall for... fuck all. You are trying to look at reality and determine the most moral, reasonable choice. People aren’t that. But if a black man makes an unreasonable choice, he fucking dies. He gets shot in the back running for his life. He gets strangled on the ground. If I make those same unwise decisions (which are dramatically less unwise for me because I don’t have a reason to fear cops) they just fucking move on.
Last night, I was sitting in my car, it was late. Cop pulled up behind me because apparently being in a car after midnight is “suspicious.” He walks up, I roll down the window, then realize the podcast I was listening to was still on. I reach down where he can’t see to pause it on my phone. He does nothing.
I’m white of course. I’ll probably never get shot or threatened for driving late at night (though I have been pulled over ten times for that). But why not? Because I look like I belong in a white neighborhood? What if I fucking didn’t? Should I get threatened for that? And what effect would that have on me, on my willingness to comply to a cop’s orders?
I get that considering anything other than the “right” thing to do is irrelevant to you. I get that as long as there’s a better option, there’s no justification. But there’s also a better option than a justice system that resorts to murder the moment it is crossed. A justice system that is more proportionate, more fair. That system does not currently exist, but it can be built. That cannot happen if we are unwilling to evaluate the justifiability of a cop’s actions as if they were any other person.
I'm not going to apologize for doing that.
By all means, build it. Peacefully protest for it. Vote for it. No one is saying that you shouldn't.
USA
THAT is exactly what people, including our President told them they shouldn't do. People have lost their jobs due to peacefully protesting. The President called them thugs and "son of a bi" and said they " shouldn't be in the country".
Trump: NFL kneelers 'maybe shouldn't be in country'
"You have to stand proudly for the national anthem or you shouldn't be playing," Mr Trump says.
www.bbc.com
Donald Trump blasts NFL anthem protesters: 'Get that son of a bitch off the field'
The president ripped into NFL players who have kneeled for the national anthem during a speech in Alabama on Friday night
www.theguardian.com
People raged and physically attacked those who were peacefully protesting.
A Montana man attacked a 13-year-old boy and fractured his skull for 'disrespecting' national anthem, police say
A Montana man was charged with assault after he allegedly slammed a 13-year-old to the ground for not taking off his hat during the national anthem.
www.usatoday.com
Teacher Allegedly Assaulted Student Over Pledge
A middle school teacher in Colorado was put on paid leave for allegedly assaulting a student who refused to stand during the Pledge of Allegiance.
www.newsweek.com
There are PLENTY of people who have opposed peaceful protests. Nothing changed until they started burning places down.
They did EXACTLY that back on the Old Escapist when we were discussing the NFL protests prior to Kaepernick losing his job..
It isn't really " ghosts of the past" Some people have ONLY changed their opinion on that AFTER Everything is burning. See, the peaceful protests pissed them off, but then they think back and say "Well that at least was better than THIS" and then change their opinion after comparing the two, but it does not change what they did in the first place that caused the violence to break out in the first place. They chose to attack and ignore the peaceful protests and not just not do nothing to change it, they actively BLOCKED reform efforts and called it " anti police" . People changing their minds after the fact does not change what happened in the moment it mattered to make a difference. The violence we have now is due to how people responded to the peaceful protests.
"Let the cops abuse you however they want, and if you don't die good for you" is like, unsubtle police state arguments you find in Alan Moore comics
Because I can guarangodamnedtee none of those cops faced a consequence. Probably got an atta-boy and promotion.
Assuming we're still talking about Obsidian's anecdotes:
What did those cops do wrong, that they would have needed to face consequences for?
And how would not complying with the orders of those cops help the situation?
Thought I might add this to the conversation. Over an hour discussing police reform. Strongly disagree on Jocko about a few points, particularly the assumption that reducing police numbers would increase crime. Mainly because particular police are committing crimes. But they arent being charged... so probably true.
He also suggested a PSA on how to engage with police and being understanding of their situations when you interact with them... which is at least interesting. It happens around 50mins in. Also, mandatory training for difficult situations. And not trying to take things down, but trying to fix.
But, I wanted to show what de-escalation should look like. It's heated, EVEN THOUGH THEY GENERALLY AGREE (it kinda strange,) But Jocko keeps reducing the temperature of the argument.
It's 3hrs. Even one hour on policing is a lot. But I thought I'd add it here
He also suggested a PSA on how to engage with police and being understanding of their situations when you interact with them... which is at least interesting. It happens around 50mins in. Also, mandatory training for difficult situations. And not trying to take things down, but trying to fix.
But, I wanted to show what de-escalation should look like. It's heated, EVEN THOUGH THEY GENERALLY AGREE (it kinda strange,) But Jocko keeps reducing the temperature of the argument.
It's 3hrs. Even one hour on policing is a lot. But I thought I'd add it here
Fascinating that the US Navy - Mister Willink is a former Navy SEAL - has seen fit to equip its top echelon team of professional arse kickers with this skill set yet it does not seem to crop up terribly much in constabulary training.
Technically according to Wikipedia the Boogaloo (SP?) groups can also include Anarchists and Libertarians.
According to NBC most of the info was him wanting to go after Cops and the FBI / CIA and trying to use the anger and protests to kick things up a gear.
Jesus christ, you think that's an okay way for police to behave? Fucking sickening.
Are bees, taps, fire ants or toasters intending to change national policy? Are they carrying out marches as shows of force? It's seen as a warning sign, of the direction the situation could go if it's met with complacency or equivocation.
Dude, I've been at protests in which the tactic was invoked in the UK. It most certainly did not work. It put people in incredible danger and provoked more violence.
I've never been more scared for my safety, and I wasn't doing anything violent or illegal. And it was the actions of the police which put me in that immediate danger.
Uhrm, yep. Which have no say over members of others, or Protestants who're unaffiliated.
I think you may have forgotten why we were discussing this particular point.
So you believe lots of perfectly moderate centre-right people willingly and knowingly turned out to a march organised by neo-Nazis, to march with self-proclaimed white supremacist groups and the KKK.
Bollocks.
Yup! Which is, yet again, unrelated to the First Amendment or freedom of speech.
If you believe he should've been allowed to speak, that's fine, I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that the freedom of speech has nothing to do with entitling people to platforms.
Last edited:
I've been searching my thoughts and level of frustration to figure out how to converse with you still. But I realize if I close the pathways of communication down again, we all lose.
So, here we go. Police Harassment and a Citizen’s Constitutional Rights
So, let me paint the picture.
I was 16 years old. I was in the Bronx visiting my best friend and watching Kung Fu movies until Too Damn Late came on the clock and I realized I was about to miss the train. My best friend told me to stay over, but I was such an awkward kid that staying around other people's houses made me feel like an inconvenience, so I said I had to get home.
I had to run on E. 233 from Gunther Ave all the way to Woodlawn Station to get the Metro North back to Westchester, where I lived.
All the stores were closed. I didn't pass anyone. There weren't any break-ins, any robberies, any stick-ups. It was a cold night and people were just trying to get some sleep.
I made it to the overpass where the entry to the train station was, and a car swooped in on me. Two grown men (again, I was 16 and scrawny) pinned me down against the wall (Fence, really) and the third flashed me his badge before going through my pockets.
I answered every question they had with respect and as soon as it was asked. It's always been my nature to treat everyone with respect, even people I dislike. They asked me where was I going, did I get into any trouble tonight, did I do anything wrong, would they find something if they went through my pockets, Where did my best friend live, where was my home?
Also, when I told them my best friend lived on Gunther, one of the guys pinning me down was given the head nod towards the car and he went to call to see if anything has occurred or been called in on Gunther Ave.
Nothing about a specific crime I was apart of. Nothing about any crimes in the area, actually. It was just a stop and torment. They had nothing, they were looking for something, and anyone and/or anything would do.
Eventually the last train was rolling by, and I'm near tears at this time trying to say that's the last train to Westchester tonight and I needed to get on it. They looked pensive. At this point, I must stress again I did nothing and they weren't looking for someone who did a specific crime. Just looking for any ole arrest. The searcher took out my id, looked at it hard and said "This is memorized now. I see this name, I'm coming down on you hard".
Now. according to the law and... well, lawyers, since there was no specific crime, and given that there was no specific crime, there's no way to link me to one, stopping me, pinning me down and asking me questions that are germane to nothing is literally a due process violation. And they were searching for anything I did wrong. That's why they called in the Gunther Ave thing. And I was TERRIFIED that something happened there that I had no part in, but I admitted I was there so they could use that to arrest me for something.
But I was young and I didn't know better. I'm probably here today because this happened on a cold night.
I appreciate that.
Stop-and-frisk in New York City - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Stop and frisk is infamous in New York, and legal in 23 states. California, where the lawyer you linked has a practice in, is not one of those states. To him and his jurisdiction, it's illegal. In New York and other states, it's legal.
Sorry.
- Status