TLOU2 Review Thread

[Rean]

I think this game kinda shows the pitfalls involved in making a sequel to a game that most people thought ended on a perfect (and inventive) note.

I also think a big moment in this game's marketing build-up that isn't being talked about is the last minute release date delay.

If you recall, back in April, Sony announced that TLOU2 was completed, but will be delayed because of COVID-19, this is what created a gap for leaks to start showing up and creating a super polarized scene ahead of the game's release, and sometimes I wonder if the delay was worth it to Sony? I mean, Square managed to release FF7R largely during the same COVID-19 window and still did great sales numbers without breaking much sweat, and that game was a similar experiment in tinkering with a "perfect" game's plot.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I think this game kinda shows the pitfalls involved in making a sequel to a game that most people thought ended on a perfect (and inventive) note.

I also think a big moment in this game's marketing build-up that isn't being talked about is the last minute release date delay.

If you recall, back in April, Sony announced that TLOU2 was completed, but will be delayed because of COVID-19, this is what created a gap for leaks to start showing up and creating a super polarized scene ahead of the game's release, and sometimes I wonder if the delay was worth it to Sony? I mean, Square managed to release FF7R largely during the same COVID-19 window and still did great sales numbers without breaking much sweat, and that game was a similar experiment in tinkering with a "perfect" game's plot.

It’s yet another example of “something bad happened in real life so let’s delay this fictional, vaguely relevant bad thing so we don’t look too “insensitive” or “irresponsible”. Society tries to insulate itself too much from unpleasantries. It might make more sense if we became more mature and socially aware as a result, but too often it seems to be the opposite case. It’s like the citizenry is treated as something that needs to be coddled because we’re too stupid and childish to process any unpleasant event, yet ironically these things often pale in comparison to what many people already deal with on a daily basis in their personal lives.

Maybe we need to start trusting people’s judgments and ability to think for themselves more, because not doing so mostly seems to lead to more dysfunction. It’s just another example of control and power over others that will backfire eventually.

 

[Gyrobot]

It’s yet another example of “something bad happened in real life so let’s delay this fictional, vaguely relevant bad thing so we don’t look too “insensitive” or “irresponsible”. Society tries to insulate itself too much from unpleasantries. It might make more sense if we became more mature and socially aware as a result, but too often it seems to be the opposite case. It’s like the citizenry is treated as something that needs to be coddled because we’re too stupid and childish to process any unpleasant event, yet ironically these things often pale in comparison to what many people already deal with on a daily basis in their personal lives.

Maybe we need to start trusting people’s judgments and ability to think for themselves more, because not doing so mostly seems to lead to more dysfunction. It’s just another example of control and power over others that will backfire eventually.

Mind if I borrow your quote for another forum? I find it insightful.

I agree, I am one of the few who liked TLOU2 because it is socially aware and mature instead of being edgy. It forces us to face the cruelty of the police brutality seen lately and the response to a pandemic as humanity is greedy then shows penance in solidarity in some places while others have devolved to a misanthropic dystopia where it's everyone for themselves.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Mind if I borrow your quote for another forum? I find it insightful.

I agree, I am one of the few who liked TLOU2 because it is socially aware and mature instead of being edgy. It forces us to face the cruelty of the police brutality seen lately and the response to a pandemic as humanity is greedy then shows penance in solidarity in some places while others have devolved to a misanthropic dystopia where it's everyone for themselves.

Use it as you wish, no problem. I think the story works better when viewed through a different lens, detached from any personal feelings towards favorite characters from the original. I wasn’t attached to anyone there, so it was easier to see and appreciate Abby’s side as she went from aggressor to protector in a way, basically turning a leaf perhaps to her surprise most of all.

It seems pretty thematic in itself about what the developer’s intention might have been towards a portion of its audience as well, helping them to see things in a different light. I never really thought of it before but Naughty Dog saying this game was about hate seemed to have been a bit of a red herring. Ultimately I got the impression it was about letting go of it. A vital metaphor in today’s world.

In a way I think the game is ahead of its time and will possibly be more revered than the original by the time the next round of consoles is winding down.

 

[Gyrobot]

Would you argue that TLOU2 lacks empathy to it's audience though? Because making a game like this when police brutality, a pandemic that has turned society to a distant and isolated bunch and devolving back to tribalism is seen as insensitive for some people

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Would you argue that TLOU2 lacks empathy to it's audience though? Because making a game like this when police brutality, a pandemic that has turned society to a distant and isolated bunch and devolving back to tribalism is seen as insensitive for some people

It’s bad timing more than anything. The game was set in stone before hell broke loose, and it’s unlikely many people would’ve given a second thought to it had everything been business as usual. The extra delay mainly served to exacerbate the impatience of their fan base over assuaging any feelings surrounding real life events.

Had they known things would go down the way they did, it’s tough to say how much differently they would have handled the themes. Sometimes interjecting things into entertainment specifically as a result of real life can also be a bit too much in its own right.

*edit*

The Last of Us Part 2's Ending Was Once A Darker One - IGN

The Last of Us Part 2 once had an even darker ending, but it was changed to fit more with a specific character's arc.

www.ign.com

They made the right call imo. The fact that Gross was surprised that was even an option is kinda surprising in itself given she hails from glorious TV writing that is supposed to be créme de la créme. Kinda shows how much that means. Perhaps she just isn’t experienced enough in the videogame realm.

I think it would’ve been cool to leave it up to the player though with their hands around Abby’s neck and then start seeing flashbacks of better days with Joel, and leave it up to them how it ends. But I suppose these kinds of stories aren’t meant to have multiple outcomes.

 

[Gyrobot]

Metacritic Will Delay User Reviews For Games

The delay is being implemented to ensure that people actually had enough time to play the game before reviewing it.

www.gamespot.com

An older article but it highlights the problem with metacritic bombing of TLOU2.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Metacritic Will Delay User Reviews For Games

The delay is being implemented to ensure that people actually had enough time to play the game before reviewing it.

www.gamespot.com

An older article but it highlights the problem with metacritic bombing of TLOU2.

Good for companies bad for consumers.

The thing about metabombing is that it is one of the only ways people have of expressing discourse against a company or a game. It shows a good metric for how a game or the business around a game is being received by the public. Now that you have to wait three days after release, people have to trust major review sites that can't be trusted anyway.

This is a shitty move.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Good for companies bad for consumers.

The thing about metabombing is that it is one of the only ways people have of expressing discourse against a company or a game. It shows a good metric for how a game or the business around a game is being received by the public. Now that you have to wait three days after release, people have to trust major review sites that can't be trusted anyway.

This is a shitty move.

It’s no more rationale to trust 1/10 review scores from people that, more often than not, hadn’t even played a game yet and were just trolling than it is to trust 10/10 review scores from game journalism sites that had played it.

I suppose this delay is just one more reason for that crowd to plaster 1/10 review scores for something “just because”. They’re simply lashing out, and most of those users lack the maturity to post anything meaningful which is evidenced by the fact the grammar typically reads like something posted by a bot.

 

[CriticalGaming]

It’s no more rationale to trust 1/10 review scores from people that, more often than not, hadn’t even played a game yet and were just trolling than it is is to trust 10/10 review scores from game journalism sites that had played it.

I suppose this delay is just one more reason for that crowd to plaster 1/10 review scores for something “just because”. Most of those users lack the maturity to post anything meaningful, which is evidenced by the fact the grammar typically reads like something posted by a bot.

I mean it isn't the most rational thing to do. Metabombing has always been a kind of eye-rolling thing to do imo. However you can't deny that it does offer a metric of the public discourse around a game, so i do believe it does have SOME value.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I mean it isn't the most rational thing to do. Metabombing has always been a kind of eye-rolling thing to do imo. However you can't deny that it does offer a metric of the public discourse around a game, so i do believe it does have SOME value.

Gotta be a better way of doing it though. Same problem goes for Amazon. Sometimes the product itself is mere collateral damage from the users’ collective wrath over some fringe issue surrounding it. Understandable to an extent and it does make people take notice, but we should be given more options than sledgehammers and grenades to voice our concerns.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Gotta be a better way of doing it though. Same problem goes for Amazon. Sometimes the product itself is mere collateral damage from the users’ collective wrath over some fringe issue surrounding it. Understandable to an extent and it does make people take notice, but we should be given more options than sledgehammers and grenades to voice our concerns.

The thing is......when someone bangs a sledgehammer, or a grenade explodes, a LOT more people hear and take notice.

 

[Dreiko]

I think this game kinda shows the pitfalls involved in making a sequel to a game that most people thought ended on a perfect (and inventive) note.

I also think a big moment in this game's marketing build-up that isn't being talked about is the last minute release date delay.

If you recall, back in April, Sony announced that TLOU2 was completed, but will be delayed because of COVID-19, this is what created a gap for leaks to start showing up and creating a super polarized scene ahead of the game's release, and sometimes I wonder if the delay was worth it to Sony? I mean, Square managed to release FF7R largely during the same COVID-19 window and still did great sales numbers without breaking much sweat, and that game was a similar experiment in tinkering with a "perfect" game's plot.

Imo FFVII was a way huger risk because it reimagined the game we love. It didn't just make a sequel. It actually messed with the original. I honestly went in with cautious optimism but I was blown away by just how well they managed to remake the game and I am a very vocal proponent of turn based systems.

Oh and the covid stuff is overblown I think. It messes with the delivery of the games and maybe the final steps of development but anything that was gonna either doom or save the game had been set in stone months if not years before the virus happened.


On a completely irrelevant note, good to have another sen no kiseki fan out here, yes I am the other one, now we just need a third one and we can start a village. Can't wait for trails 4 to finally grace the states in october or whenever it's supposed to. By that time the next one (hajimari no kiseki they called it I think lol) will be already out in Japan too.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Like I said, I'm baised toward that, since I think this juvenile shit in anime and Japanese games could seriously use some culling. I'd rather Japan stop being so weird about sex and grow up a little.

The fact is that sex scene in TLoU2 wasn't there for cheap titilation, nor is it the umpteenth example of cheap titilation in gaming. So no, it's not just 'if anime does it it's bad, and if the West does it it's fine'. It's more a case similar to Rockstar, where Naughty Dog is allowed more leeway for risky material due to being a big name studio.

Honestly, there's full on tits-out OVAs from the '80s and '90s that are less horny than a lot of broadcast anime these days. It's weird

Anybody that gets mad that "western devs" can have sex scenes between adults but the line gets drawn at "sexy children" should probably...I don't want to say "go outside" given the circumstances, but detox from the internet for a bit at least.

95% of the "censorship" problems anime and manga have would be solved by setting the same stories at a community college instead of a high school.

 

[Dreiko]

Honestly, there's full on tits-out OVAs from the '80s and '90s that are less horny than a lot of broadcast anime these days. It's weird

Anybody that gets mad that "western devs" can have sex scenes between adults but the line gets drawn at "sexy children" should probably...I don't want to say "go outside" given the circumstances, but detox from the internet for a bit at least.

95% of the "censorship" problems anime and manga have would be solved by setting the same stories at a community college instead of a high school.

You don't need to go looking for ovas, the standard broadcast version of Urusei Yatsura from like 1983 (a sitcom style show aimed at the entire family) has alien teenager nipples in the first episode. It's just how humor works there. They just culturally don't see it as such a big deal due to a different take in sexuality.


Basically, the humorous juvenile fanservice is seen as the inherently innocent and playful bit of fun that it is. It is our westerner perspective that over-sexualizes those scenes into something we perceive of as obscene, and then go on to condemn as if it were actually obscene, when it is just literal humor/comedy/innocent fun. They literally have a culture of many people going to communal baths and being naked around eachother, even mixed gender, and they allow kids younger than a certain age to accompany their different sex parent in those baths too. It's just not that big of a deal basically.


On the other hand, the sex scene in this game is just obscene and has no comedic or other components to it, which is prolly why the censored it in Japan and not in the US.


The thing is, I don't want anything to be censored. I don't want this scene to be censored because the person involved looks like a less feminine hulk on estrogen. I just can't stand the irony of people who try to censor other things being for this scene because it conforms with their view of how games should handle sexual content.

Nobody cares about your view dude, just let art be art and don't try to control it. Consume the content you personally like and let others do the same.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Missing the point
There's casual nudity, played for a joke or not, but that doesn't mean horny.
Horny is "anime camera angles" meme

And if you're gonna be horny, you're gonna get pushback when your characters are kids. Which is why most pervy anime games get more pushback then actual sex scenes in western games: kids
And I really wish more sexy anime games weren't about kids. I'm still mad at Gun Gun Pixies bait and switch

 

[Houseman]

Which is why most pervy anime games get more pushback then actual sex scenes in western games: kids

Wasn't there an underage sex scene in Life is Strange 2, featuring a 16 year old boy and a girl of unknown, but similar, age that showed boobs and butt?

 

[Jarrito3002]

Hi everyone been lurking this thread and wow moral of the story ladies should have gun shows is what I can get from this.

Missing the point
There's casual nudity, played for a joke or not, but that doesn't mean horny.
Horny is "anime camera angles" meme
View attachment 396
And if you're gonna be horny, you're gonna get pushback when your characters are kids. Which is why most pervy anime games get more pushback then actual sex scenes in western games: kids
And I really wish more sexy anime games weren't about kids. I'm still mad at Gun Gun Pixies bait and switch

No now this is whole discussion in of itself. Like why is it this specific clientele not going to say the whole country cause that is mean and reductive as hell but this clientele have this fear of college or above age horny. Its no and yes drake meme but they pick high schooler and below and go yes.

 

[Gyrobot]

Wasn't there an underage sex scene in Life is Strange 2, featuring a 16 year old boy and a girl of unknown, but similar, age that showed boobs and butt?

Authority: Teenage sex felt like it's a natural fact of life during the raging development period of our lives while the pervy anime games do nothing more than titiliating chuds and create a rallying cry for the censorship fight.