How Problematic is "All Lives Matter?"

[lil devils x]

He has stated women hate everyone. But he's also mocked anyone calling him a racist noting it sounds stupid if you realize how many black men he has felated. Even that was meant to be funny: the real issue is, if he really bared ill will to black people, I do not think he would have married a black man. I would be interested in a link to what you write as I suspect he was being provocative or even sarcastic.

Again, Milo's relationship has nothing to do with him being a racist. Bigoted people marry those who they are bigoted against all the time, this is not unexpected or even unusual and I am not sure why you think it is. You can even be black and be racist against blacks. You can be a woman and be sexist against women. I don;t think you actually understand how this works.

Much of what was already linked on our old escapist forum already was during the time that shall not be named here, due to his participation in it and his affiliation with the old site so I will refrain from doing so. If you do not already know what he has stated, you honestly do not know much about him to begin with then. He is honestly not even worth talking about at this point so that is all the time I am going to waste on him as a subject matter. There was an abundant amount of information on this on the old escapist and google in case you missed it.

 

[Buyetyen]

What you wrote was racist and bigoted, assuming that all white people that use the term ALM only mean it for themselves. Shameful.

Yes, yes, you're the victim in this equation. You're the victim in all of them, it's only ever bigotry when it's your beliefs and actions being judged, we know.

 

[Buyetyen]

The "last four years" brought record low unemployment to US Black people and rising wages. The horror.

Never ceases to amaze how white people demand credit for anything remotely positive that happens to black people. White people are so fucking needy.

To the Left, if black people get rich and prosperous, they will not need redistributionist policies. They'll turn into people more resembling Charles Barkley.

You're not doing yourself any favors when the only successful black people you can think of off the top of your head are sports stars. But hey, while we're at it, let's talk about the capitalist practice of not paying student athletes and the NFL knowingly turning a blind eye toward players' brain injuries. And that the NFL perceives this wrong-doing on their part to be inconsequential next to the indignity of the market collectively deciding they didn't want sports teams to be named after racial slurs anymore.

Capitalism is also raising whole nations out of poverty and saving lives.

Not counting the countries that are actively being exploited and kept poor by multi-national corporations? Not counting things like the Chiquita fruit company getting permission from the US government to send in death squads to Colombia to put down labor movements with bullets? Sorry dude, you want to defend capitalism, you also have to be ready to reply to all the ways it's currently fucking up. You don't get to just point to the Soviet Union, which ceased to exist a quarter century ago, and act like that absolves your ideology of its extensive failures.

I have been told that Capitalism kills 80 million people a year because, they die of easily resolved issues (clean water, proper diet: they are poor and don't have that kind of money to fix those problems). Simply switching to Global Communism would not help those 80 million. Communism sees people as identity groups. If the state requires it, they can be round up and slaughtered. No thanks.

The fact that you think the only 2 options are laissez faire dystopia and Stalinism reflect a serious failure of imagination on your part.

 

[ObsidianJones]

*snips*

While I don't believe in systems of government, I believe humanity should govern and rule the day. We are all here. We are all we have. We should strive for the betterment of the other. Humanity should have been there to protect your family. I say this with absolute respect to your grandparents and actual condolences for what your family has gone through.

But the issue here is the typical correlation vs causation argument. The situation is that Marxism was presented when these atrocities occurred. I've known plenty of old college professor marxists who weren't chomping at the bit for their day to harm others given free reign with their ideals. As humans have done since the beginning of time, Marxist, Capitalist, Royalty, The Church used their leverage to to make others submit to their will. And some humans were not humane.

Whether for profit, to 'expand medical knowledge', or just the military trying to find new ways to kill people or react to people killing our troops, Human Experimentation ran rampant in this country. And for all we know, still does today. We can only talk about what came out to light. We do know that it tended to be the poor and minorities who received this treatment.

If anything, America loves its traditions.

Pathogens, Chemicals, Drugs, Other nation's Torture techniques, Being exposed to Radiation just to see the results. And I'm sorry to single any one of these out, but let it be said that Radiation sickness is not a good way to go. And not only that, birth defects that came from these experiments. They don't even know the number because they were done with the experiment. Their responsibilities ended then.

Having the misfortune of being selected for a heinous crime to be done to you that will kill you if you're lucky, and might curse your linage if you are not is unthinkable. That's the actions of a just society?

Police Brutality? Sure. It's what this thread was originally about. We can talk about Chicago, who used to do horrible things to fellow human beings to pad out their numbers. Rough Rides in Baltimore are called "Screen Tests" in LA. NYPD had several high profile cases in my life time. Most well-known was Abner Louima.

How do we treat Prisoners? About the same as we treat everyone else.

The only difference between all these systems of government is the arbitrary decision of what kind of minority you get to victimize. Here in America, it's easier. They are usually wearing the 'Away' Colors. In a Tyrannical Run Marxist state, you just have to say 'enemy of the people'... Which again is familiar to America during McCarthyism.

I will never deny the cruelty that was unfortunately done to your family and others under a marxist state. I state that it's not unique to Marxism. I state that it's not endemic of the teachings that allows these atrocities to happen. As much as people are trying to change the conversation, we have a segment of this population that are still suffering in this American Government's rule. Whether due to racial issues, or Social Economic Class issues that are usually done on racial lines.

I can not fault anyone's logic who thinks that since they, their parents, their grandparents, and generations of their people suffered horrendously due to the government's ideals... maybe it's time to change those ideals to be truly free.

 

[gorfias]

Never ceases to amaze how white people demand credit for anything remotely positive that happens to black people. White people are so fucking needy.



You're not doing yourself any favors when the only successful black people you can think of off the top of your head are sports stars. But hey, while we're at it, let's talk about the capitalist practice of not paying student athletes and the NFL knowingly turning a blind eye toward players' brain injuries. And that the NFL perceives this wrong-doing on their part to be inconsequential next to the indignity of the market collectively deciding they didn't want sports teams to be named after racial slurs anymore.



Not counting the countries that are actively being exploited and kept poor by multi-national corporations? Not counting things like the Chiquita fruit company getting permission from the US government to send in death squads to Colombia to put down labor movements with bullets? Sorry dude, you want to defend capitalism, you also have to be ready to reply to all the ways it's currently fucking up. You don't get to just point to the Soviet Union, which ceased to exist a quarter century ago, and act like that absolves your ideology of its extensive failures.



The fact that you think the only 2 options are laissez faire dystopia and Stalinism reflect a serious failure of imagination on your part.

I hate blocking people, but the next abusive, racist, bigoted thing you post to me, and I don't see as I have a choice.

 

[Buyetyen]

I hate blocking people, but the next abusive, racist, bigoted thing you post to me, and I don't see as I have a choice.

You realize I'm lily white, right? Are white people not allowed to criticize or make fun of other white people? Is that not PC enough?

 

[Houseman]

ALM has been around for at least 5 years. I think it was Milo, Cernovich and Bannon.

Whatever you think it is, that’s not what happened. It’s not the current media narrative. It happened a long time ago.

Have you ever wondered why BLM people are so hostile to the idea? It’s this specific reason.

So, as I said, make some other group up if you ever want to get traction

Can you prove that ALM was created by "Milo, Cernovich and Bannon"? I've never heard of this before.
And I don't mean "championed the phrase", I mean "coined the phrase".

But let's brainstorm some other possible names and slogans while we're at it.
"Down With Marxism"
"Stop Police Brutality"
"Solve The Root Problem"
"It's Not About Race"

 

[gorfias]

Never ceases to amaze how white people demand credit for anything remotely positive that happens to black people. White people are so fucking needy.

You're not doing yourself any favors when the only successful black people you can think of off the top of your head are sports stars.

You realize I'm lily white, right? Are white people not allowed to criticize or make fun of other white people? Is that not PC enough?

You should not be so dismissive of successful men like Charles Barkley. I didn't mention him because of his sports career but because he is also a wealthy investor, writer, TV personality and most importantly, a very vocal political commentator critical of your way of thinking . You are the one who appears to see things one dimensionally.

I'd call that being a racial kapo (engaging in racism and bigotry against members of your own race). You think you're gaining brownie points by attacking your own. You should stop it. Spreading bigotry against your own is still a terrible thing to do.

While I don't believe in systems of government, I believe humanity should govern and rule the day.

Sorry to snip... system wouldn't let me post. Not sure this will go...

I truly appreciate your heartfelt sentiments.
There is another reason to fear Marxism above others: it is a fake, economic fantasy. It is not based upon science but a dream, based upon, among other things, the fantasy that louts like Marx himself can be bums, while having industrious other people care for him to the point he lives as well as the hardest other working person. It's a recipe for disaster.
I am critical of the BLM organizers as I think, rather than be about truly making things better (again, the actual people doing the organizing, not the rank and file who honestly mean well) want to be divisive. One of the great frustrations of Marxists in the USA is the desire to sow division so they can overturn the establishment, only to find that most people think this system, in spite of its problems, which we both admit are there, is on balance, pretty great.
It comes across as hostile to me, my family, my friends and loved ones, my nation, and my race (sort of... I'm technically not white but... ).
With all of that, I cannot see how one wouldn't reflexively push back.
With organizers like BLM's, how do you get to actually have the conversation center on making things better?
Example: with cops, you don't defund them. You outlaw unions that protect bad cops. You hold them accountable for misdeeds. You proscribe things like kneeling on someone's neck to subdue them.
I'd write that this conversation should start, but I'm too late. It already is something people of all races are working upon. Now to work on making it a center of conversation.

 

[Buyetyen]

You should not be so dismissive of successful men like Charles Barkley. I didn't mention him because of his sports career but because he is also a wealthy investor, writer, TV personality and most importantly, a very vocal political commentator critical of your way of thinking . You are the one who appears to see things one dimensionally.

I'd call that being a racial kapo (engaging in racism and bigotry against members of your own race). You think you're gaining brownie points by attacking your own. You should stop it. Spreading bigotry against your own is still a terrible thing to do.

If you're that paranoid, there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. You are however lending some credibility to my point that you base your platform almost entirely on your own near-perpetual state of panic. If you want to be the corpse at every funeral, have at it. Far be it from me to stop you.

There is another reason to fear Marxism above others: it is a fake, economic fantasy. It is not based upon science but a dream, based upon, among other things, the fantasy that louts like Marx himself can be bums, while having industrious other people care for him to the point he lives as well as the hardest other working person. It's a recipe for disaster.

Like I said, dude: you do not have the first clue what Marxism is. And every time you try to talk about Marxism, you prove me right.

 

[SupahEwok]

There is another reason to fear Marxism above others: it is a fake, economic fantasy. It is not based upon science but a dream

Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing scientific about capitalism either.

 

[Buyetyen]

Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing scientific about capitalism either.

Come on, be serious. What could be more scientifically sound than the assumption that a ruling class of wealthy elites with every incentive to extract the maximum possible value out of their properties, assets and employees while at the same time giving as little back as possible in order to maximize gains would never actually follow up on that incentive and only do good things?

 

[gorfias]

Like I said, dude: you do not have the first clue what Marxism is. And every time you try to talk about Marxism, you prove me right.

Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing scientific about capitalism either.

The USSR should have eaten the US's lunch economically. No need for planned obsolescence. No inefficiency causing unemployment. Yet they couldn't feed themselves.
The reason this is pertinent to this discussion is that BLM's founders would divide us to help them achieve Marxism. They know they cannot come to the US people and say, "hey, great system you have there, but wouldn't you rather be like Venezuela?" They have to divide and destroy. And we should object. ALM is push back against this division.

 

[Buyetyen]

The USSR should have eaten the US's lunch economically. No need for planned obsolescence. No inefficiency causing unemployment. Yet they couldn't feed themselves.
The reason this is pertinent to this discussion is that BLM's founders would divide us to help them achieve Marxism. They know they cannot come to the US people and say, "hey, great system you have there, but wouldn't you rather be like Venezuela?" They have to divide and destroy. And we should object. ALM is push back against this division.

By all means, keep proving me right by explaining your Saturday morning cartoon villain conception of Marxism. Anyway, the system you propose tells me that I have no inherent worth as a person unless I make money for somebody else and I must accept this as the way it has to be because the the only conceivable alternative is just another flavor of dystopia. You need to come up with a better sales pitch.

EDIT: If you voted for Trump and plan to this year, you do not get to accuse other people of being divisive.

 

[SupahEwok]

The USSR should have eaten the US's lunch economically. No need for planned obsolescence. No inefficiency causing unemployment. Yet they couldn't feed themselves.
The reason this is pertinent to this discussion is that BLM's founders would divide us to help them achieve Marxism. They know they cannot come to the US people and say, "hey, great system you have there, but wouldn't you rather be like Venezuela?" They have to divide and destroy. And we should object. ALM is push back against this division.

Such an assessment is unscientific.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Hate to break it to you, but there's nothing scientific about capitalism either.

Prove it. You look at history books? Lot's of failed socialist systems yet capitalism, in spite of its faults, has led lots of countries to greater prosperity. I would much rather have a better system than capitalism but no one is suggesting a better one, they're suggesting socialism. I may have a moldy apple as my only food right now but I fail to see why I should exchange it for feces.

 

[Buyetyen]

Prove it. You look at history books? Lot's of failed socialist systems yet capitalism, in spite of its faults, has led lots of countries to greater prosperity. I would much rather have a better system than capitalism but no one is suggesting a better one, they're suggesting socialism. I may have a moldy apple as my only food right now but I fail to see why I should exchange it for feces.

That's not a scientific observation. That is at best a very presumptuous and facile hypothesis that you have no intention of trying to falsify. Which, if you learned the scientific method in school, you will recognize as being inherently unscientific.

 

[Houseman]

That's not a scientific observation. That is at best a very presumptuous and facile hypothesis that you have no intention of trying to falsify. Which, if you learned the scientific method in school, you will recognize as being inherently unscientific.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

That's not a scientific observation. That is at best a very presumptuous and facile hypothesis that you have no intention of trying to falsify. Which, if you learned the scientific method in school, you will recognize as being inherently unscientific.

I'll ask both of you again. Prove that socialism works and that capitalism isn't based on reality. History backs me up, I have yet to see you provide anything to the contrary.

 

[gorfias]

By all means, keep proving me right by explaining your Saturday morning cartoon villain conception of Marxism. Anyway, the system you propose tells me that I have no inherent worth as a person unless I make money for somebody else and I must accept this as the way it has to be because the the only conceivable alternative is just another flavor of dystopia. You need to come up with a better sales pitch.

EDIT: If you voted for Trump and plan to this year, you do not get to accuse other people of being divisive.

OK, let's pretend that Marxism is not the engine of mass murder and soul killing poverty it appears to be. That you think it can lead to something other than children digging through garbage looking for something to eat. Even if it would lead to all Western people farting through silk pajamas by Xmas if only we'd adopt it. Do it's proponents believe they need to divide and destroy to build their new "utopia".? I think they do and are trying to implement this destruction through BLM.

ITMT: Remember. If you don't vote Biden this November, you aint black. Everybody got that?!?!

 

[ObsidianJones]

*snips*

Sorry to snip... system wouldn't let me post. Not sure this will go...

I truly appreciate your heartfelt sentiments.
There is another reason to fear Marxism above others: it is a fake, economic fantasy. It is not based upon science but a dream, based upon, among other things, the fantasy that louts like Marx himself can be bums, while having industrious other people care for him to the point he lives as well as the hardest other working person. It's a recipe for disaster.
I am critical of the BLM organizers as I think, rather than be about truly making things better (again, the actual people doing the organizing, not the rank and file who honestly mean well) want to be divisive. One of the great frustrations of Marxists in the USA is the desire to sow division so they can overturn the establishment, only to find that most people think this system, in spite of its problems, which we both admit are there, is on balance, pretty great.
It comes across as hostile to me, my family, my friends and loved ones, my nation, and my race (sort of... I'm technically not white but... ).
With all of that, I cannot see how one wouldn't reflexively push back.
With organizers like BLM's, how do you get to actually have the conversation center on making things better?
Example: with cops, you don't defund them. You outlaw unions that protect bad cops. You hold them accountable for misdeeds. You proscribe things like kneeling on someone's neck to subdue them.
I'd write that this conversation should start, but I'm too late. It already is something people of all races are working upon. Now to work on making it a center of conversation.

Don't worry about the snips. I have to do it all the time.

And I know you understand I meant what I said, but I think we as a species need to be reminded that we share all pains we suffered, and all the highs we achieve. The unnecessary and cruel loss of loved ones can never be undone. And we should all bare the weight. This is a fundamental tenet of my beliefs.

With organizers like BLM, you get to that conversation before the need to form the organization. BLM was created by generations of being ignored, mistreated, brutalized without repercussions. The pleas were ignored. The shows of solidary were villainized. The proof was dismissed. The community itself was blamed. And now, with literally the world's focus onto the movement, facets of America are acting indignant like "all we had to do was discuss it and you took it to this extreme".

Again, think about the climate we're in. The fight over face masks, proven medical science, is made into a strive for social liberty and fairness. And people are more apt to understand that than minorities pointing out rampant police brutalities.

And Defunding the police depends on who you're talking to. Some say we take money we invest in law enforcement and put it into the community. Education, business loans, beautification. Instead of letting the city fester and adding more guards to keep them in place, take out some of the guards and give opportunities to make something out of the community. That makes sense to me.

But again, think about the Climate we're in. We have a President that staunchly against any oversight to Police, Defunding or anything, because he portends to be a 'Law and Order'. But he ignores the will of the people who are afraid of sending their children to school due to this uncontrolled Virus and out right threatens to cut funding for schools that don't open in time. This nation won't cut funding for a police force that routinely shows questionable actions throughout their history, but during a deadly pandemic has no issue threatening to basically defund the educational system because we don't have a plan in place to keep our children, our families, and so importantly our teachers safe.

Without sarcasm, no lessons are being learned.