The Problem of Slavery in the Bible

[fOx]

Many of you probably know that I am an avowed christian. However, there is one aspect of Christianity that always troubled me. The existance of slavery within the bible, as practived by the hebrew people, and the extreme level of physical and sexual abuse that was forced upon slaves of the time. It always struck me as bizarre that the hebrews were slaves in egypt, but that they then started a system of slavery themselves. There's never really an excuse for abuse and exploitation of labor.

I'm curious what other religious and non religious people think of this topic, and the way slavery existed in the context of religion.

 

[Houseman]

I'm Christian, and I'll defend Israel's system of slavery as a social safety net.

If you didn't have the means to live, you could go sell yourself as a slave to your neighbor and get food, clothing, and shelter. Leviticus 25:39,40 says "If your brother who lives nearby becomes poor and he has to sell himself to you, you must not force him to do slave labor. He should be treated like a hired worker, like a settler. He should serve with you until the Jubilee year."

And on this Jubilee year, which was every seven years, all slaves were to go free, with their own plot of land so that they could hopefully be self-sufficient. Every fifty years, all slaves, nationwide, were to be set free, regardless of how long they had been slaves. Also, on that Jubilee year, the 50th year, any land that was sold would return to its owner. So if you were so poor that you had to sell your land, it would return to you, and you could return to it.

How the Israelites did slavery is nowhere close to the image that pops into people's minds when we think of slavery, today.

 

[fOx]

I'm Christian, and I'll defend Israel's system of slavery as a social safety net.

If you didn't have the means to live, you could go sell yourself as a slave to your neighbor and get food, clothing, and shelter. Leviticus 25:39,40 says "If your brother who lives nearby becomes poor and he has to sell himself to you, you must not force him to do slave labor. He should be treated like a hired worker, like a settler. He should serve with you until the Jubilee year."

And on this Jubilee year, which was every seven years, all slaves were to go free, with their own plot of land so that they could hopefully be self-sufficient. Every fifty years, all slaves, nationwide, were to be set free, regardless of how long they had been slaves. Also, on that Jubilee year, the 50th year, any land that was sold would return to its owner. So if you were so poor that you had to sell your land, it would return to you, and you could return to it.

How the Israelites did slavery is nowhere close to the image that pops into people's minds when we think of slavery, today.

I'm... a little confused by this response. Are you saying that slavery was a societal good?

 

[Houseman]

I'm... a little confused by this response. Are you saying that slavery was a societal good?

For the Israelites, it was pretty alright.

 

[fOx]

For the Israelites, it was pretty alright.

What about the foreigners who were forced into slavery by the Israelites, against their will? Was it a societal good for them?

Was it a societal good when they were beaten by their masters?
"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.”

 

[Houseman]

What about the foreigners who were forced into slavery by the Israelites, against their will? Was it a societal good for them?

"Societal good" are your words, not mine.
But no, just for the Israelites.

You could argue that the slavery of foreign nations was justified, since they were Israel's enemies who fought against them in war.

If God is good, and you're fighting against God's chosen people, that should make you bad.

Was it a societal good when they were beaten by their masters?
"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.”

"Societal good" are your words, not mine. I just said it was a social safety net that was pretty alright.

 

[Palindromemordnilap]

It always struck me as bizarre that the hebrews were slaves in egypt, but that they then started a system of slavery themselves. There's never really an excuse for abuse and exploitation of labor.

The abused have a tragic habit of becoming the abuser.
But overall this is why I think its a bad idea to define your morals by the Bible's example

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Slavery was just...a thing, back in the day. A good chunk of the Hebrew law code was based around "hey remember that time when you were slaves, anyway, here's rules for how not to be complete shit as a slave owner." Outlines rules and rights that slaves had and everything, which tended to be better than their contemporaries. *As a product of its time*, it was relatively fair and just.

Morally, especially by today's standards, slavery is bad. Vast majority of even Orthodox Jews would agree. Interesting difference between the Jewish god and the Christian god was that the Jewish god was and is fallible like that.

Fun fact, when US Christian slave owners would distribute bibles to preach at their slaves, they'd often take most of the Old Testament out precisely *because* of how it afforded slaves some semblance of basic human dignity. Evangelical Christendom has a lot to answer for.

 

[Trunkage]

I'm... a little confused by this response. Are you saying that slavery was a societal good?

You know that the bible was used to enforce slavery in the South right? That it was good for everyone.

I'm also concerned about the genocide that God asks the Jews to perform. Mainly when people call the Quran violent and don't accept that the Bible was pro-genocide.

 

[Hawki]

People have wrestled this for awhile. What bugs me the most is when defenders of the Bible use the excuse along the lines of "slavery in the Bible isn't REAL slavery" or somesuch.

Anyway, the Bible's been used to both justify and protest against slavery. An imperfect work written by imperfect people, trying to provide a system of morality, but framing that system in the context of the time.

 

[Kwak]

Many of you probably know that I am an avowed christian. However, there is one aspect of Christianity that always troubled me.

What does The Torah have to do with your alleged christianity? It's irrelevant.
Or was Christ propounding on slave-owning etiquette?

 

[Trunkage]

What does The Torah have to do with your alleged christianity? It's irrelevant.
Or was Christ propounding on slave-owning etiquette?

The Torah makes up part of the Bible

 

[Agema]

Anyway, the Bible's been used to both justify and protest against slavery.

That's one of its big advantages for Christianity. It's a holy book that effectively has a justification somewhere for a person (particularly the ruling classes) to do virtually anything, which greatly minimises the chance someone will reject Christianity because it stops them doing what they want to.

 

[Kwak]

The Torah makes up part of the Bible

Yeah, the irrelevant part (to supposed christ followers).
It's just historical, and not meant to be some kind of moral code. The new testament serves that purpose.

 

[Agema]

Yeah, the irrelevant part (to supposed christ followers).
It's just historical, and not meant to be some kind of moral code. The new testament serves that purpose.

Technically, I think Jesus states he did not come to change God's law, but to pay the earthly punishments due for it on behalf of sinners.

Arguably this means it is not reasonable to do things like slaughter one's opponents into submission, but it's hardly a definitive one.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

You can do and argue pretty much anything in the name of the Bible right?

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Many of you probably know that I am an avowed christian. However, there is one aspect of Christianity that always troubled me. The existance of slavery within the bible, as practived by the hebrew people, and the extreme level of physical and sexual abuse that was forced upon slaves of the time. It always struck me as bizarre that the hebrews were slaves in egypt, but that they then started a system of slavery themselves. There's never really an excuse for abuse and exploitation of labor.

I'm curious what other religious and non religious people think of this topic, and the way slavery existed in the context of religion.

Cathlic or Protestant?

 

[SupahEwok]

You can do and argue pretty much anything in the name of the Bible right?

You can do and argue pretty much anything in the name of anything. It doesn't make you correct.

 

[happyninja42]

What does The Torah have to do with your alleged christianity? It's irrelevant.
Or was Christ propounding on slave-owning etiquette?

Actually he did comment about slave-owning etiquette, on the slave side of things.

"Slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones." I believe it's Ephesians 6:5. He's also quoted in Matthew as describing the relationship between god and humanity as that of a master and slaves.

 

[Trunkage]

Actually he did comment about slave-owning etiquette, on the slave side of things.

"Slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones." I believe it's Ephesians 6:5. He's also quoted in Matthew as describing the relationship between god and humanity as that of a master and slaves.

Ephesians doesnt have anything to do with Jesus