The Problem of Slavery in the Bible
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Right but so much more war, death and misery is traced and attributed to the Bible than I dunno Sonic the Hedgehog.
The wars, death, and misery perpetuated by blind adherence to extreme economic values are rapidly eclipsing that caused by any religion.
Yeah like I said, I believe it's Ephesians, but I can't seem to find it. I know I've heard it quoted many times, but I can't find a citation for the time jesus said it.
Jesus doesn't say anything in Ephesians. Ephesians was a sermon by Paul to the Ephesian people. Jesus only "says" anything in the Gospels (the first 4 books of the New Testament), which are accounts of his life written by various people several decades after the fact.
This
Everything after the gospels is people pretending what Jesus said to their own political ends. Paul endless criticised Christians for not believing in his version of Christianity.
That’s also not really Paul’s point, his entire idea of how Christianity ought to be practiced is to not be overly disruptive so people don’t get killed, unless laws are set to specifically make you act immorally. I wouldn’t call him right or even a good guy, but viewing him as pro-slavery is a bit inaccurate.
Ok. So you're opinion is that slavery was a "pretty alright" system then? As opposed to neutral, or bad?
Then lets take the israeli slaves out of it, for a moment. What's your opinion on their system of slavery, for those who did not choose to be slaves?
I wasn't talking about paul at all. I was talking about jesus and got the bible verse wrong.
Probably gonna regret this, but...
Like, even leaving aside how religion is both un-provable AND is run by fallible humans who often have their own agendas who use religion as a social control tool or as a way to con money out of people...
If, for the sake of argument, god was real and was like:
"If you're a sexual orientation that harms no one, but I don't like it, you get tortured for all eternity. If you happen to be kidnapped and enslaved, it's just and good purely because I say so. AND if you happen to not believe in me for whatever reason (up to and including never having heard of me), I will also let you be tortured for eternity even if you were nonetheless a good person who tried their best to make life better for everyone"...
Then I'm sorry, that god is a totalitarian narcissistic fuckin' monster who does not deserve worship, and should not be treated as the supreme moral authority.
EDIT: I DO want to state that if you're religious, that's fine. You do what brings you peace. I just personally have serious SERIOUS issues with it on many levels, and this is one of them.
Just gotta say, shit like this is one of the many reasons I'm a full on anti-theist who detests organized religion.
Like, even leaving aside how religion is both un-provable AND is run by fallible humans who often have their own agendas who use religion as a social control tool or as a way to con money out of people...
If, for the sake of argument, god was real and was like:
"If you're a sexual orientation that harms no one, but I don't like it, you get tortured for all eternity. If you happen to be kidnapped and enslaved, it's just and good purely because I say so. AND if you happen to not believe in me for whatever reason (up to and including never having heard of me), I will also let you be tortured for eternity even if you were nonetheless a good person who tried their best to make life better for everyone"...
Then I'm sorry, that god is a totalitarian narcissistic fuckin' monster who does not deserve worship, and should not be treated as the supreme moral authority.
EDIT: I DO want to state that if you're religious, that's fine. You do what brings you peace. I just personally have serious SERIOUS issues with it on many levels, and this is one of them.
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For the most part, I agree. I don't believe in Hell, nor do I think that a loving God would ever send someone there.
On the subject of slavery, though, who said anything about kidnapping?
Declaring literal deus ex machina is neither nuanced nor discussion.
If you want to avoid working under certain assumptions like "God defines morality", all you have to do is state your premises. When the premises are undefined, anyone is free to import their own.
Otherwise, what am I supposed to do? Read your mind and work under your unstated assumptions?
Hey, tell me, is it possible to enslave somebody in self-defense? Asking for a friend.