Ghosts of Tsushima Review thread

happyninja42

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There is a point where his uncle turns on him after, well, commiting a war crime, but the game never really seems to acknowledge that his uncle is in the right there.
I feel the uncle's high ground is undercut, by him immediately trying to place all the blame for the deaths on an innocent woman, simply because she's a peasant/thief, and thus he doesn't trust/like her. I think it was showing that the samurai aren't as "honorable" as they make themselves out to be. I mean, that's some first class nepotism to avoid capital punishment if I've seen it.

I've also always found it kind of odd, where the line is drawn on what is acceptable methods of killing hundreds of people. I mean, fire and explosives are perfectly ok, so would it not have been a war crime if Jin had just set off a ton of bombs? A weapon both the Japanese and Mongols used a lot? Or just set them all on fire? Again, fire, really popular weapon. But, somehow poison is going too far. It's always weird to me. Especially when traditionally, ninja would be the ones that would do things like this for their shogun, at that lord's behest. They did all the shady stuff so the ruler's hands stayed clean. So, if you sanction such tactics, are you still honorable? The tenants of bushido would suggest so.

It's a big mess morally, and the game doesn't really stick the landing in that regard, I'll grant you. For me though, the telling difference between Jin and his Uncle (and samurai in general as shown in the game), is that Jin was willing to give up his "honor" to save the lives of his people. But his uncle, was willing to give up the lives of his people, to save his honor. That'a s telling difference to me. If you get a hundred of your men killed in a foolhardy assault, when killing the enemy (the whole reason you assaulted in the first place) in an extreme way would save those lives, what is the right choice?

Maybe Sucker Punch was trying to illustrate that? The morally gray nature of that culture and it's codes of ethics? But I agree the writing didn't really follow through as well as it could have.
 
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I feel the uncle's high ground is undercut, by him immediately trying to place all the blame for the deaths on an innocent woman, simply because she's a peasant/thief, and thus he doesn't trust/like her. I think it was showing that the samurai aren't as "honorable" as they make themselves out to be. I mean, that's some first class nepotism to avoid capital punishment if I've seen it.
Exactly.

I've also always found it kind of odd, where the line is drawn on what is acceptable methods of killing hundreds of people. I mean, fire and explosives are perfectly ok, so would it not have been a war crime if Jin had just set off a ton of bombs? A weapon both the Japanese and Mongols used a lot? Or just set them all on fire? Again, fire, really popular weapon. But, somehow poison is going too far. It's always weird to me. Especially when traditionally, ninja would be the ones that would do things like this for their shogun, at that lord's behest. They did all the shady stuff so the ruler's hands stayed clean. So, if you sanction such tactics, are you still honorable? The tenants of bushido would suggest so.
Yep.
It's a big mess morally, and the game doesn't really stick the landing in that regard, I'll grant you. For me though, the telling difference between Jin and his Uncle (and samurai in general as shown in the game), is that Jin was willing to give up his "honor" to save the lives of his people. But his uncle, was willing to give up the lives of his people, to save his honor. That'a s telling difference to me. If you get a hundred of your men killed in a foolhardy assault, when killing the enemy (the whole reason you assaulted in the first place) in an extreme way would save those lives, what is the right choice?
Correcto. Jin's uncle is a classicist. Funny, because, if you listen the dialogue
Maybe Sucker Punch was trying to illustrate that? The morally gray nature of that culture and it's codes of ethics? But I agree the writing didn't really follow through as well as it could have.
I disagree. Sucker Punch did a good job on that. They touched on themes on grey areas and revenge better than you know what Part II.
from the soldiers when sneaking in to the castle, Shimura is not as high in the caste system the player would think on a first playthough. Unless you're already familiar with medieval Japanese history.
 

happyninja42

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I disagree. Sucker Punch did a good job on that. They touched on themes on grey areas and revenge better than you know what Part II.
from the soldiers when sneaking in to the castle, Shimura is not as high in the caste system the player would think on a first playthough. Unless you're already familiar with medieval Japanese history.
I think they didn't nail it mostly due to some of the conflicts of gameplay versus theme. Like, I distinctly recall in the battle where Jin is storming a fort with his Uncle, and it's an open battle, I'm using "dishonorable" tactics left and right, and on multiple occasions Uncle would be like "Excellent! Good Strike!" etc. And I'm like "um, but I just like set them on fire with a bomb, an act used in the first 5 minutes of the game to illustrate the mongolions as being dishonorable. And...you're ok with that Uncle? Um, ok" I'd do some assassinations and he'd react the same. And then at the end of that very sequence, he criticizes me for my tactics in the cutscene portion.
 

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I think they didn't nail it mostly due to some of the conflicts of gameplay versus theme. Like, I distinctly recall in the battle where Jin is storming a fort with his Uncle, and it's an open battle, I'm using "dishonorable" tactics left and right, and on multiple occasions Uncle would be like "Excellent! Good Strike!" etc. And I'm like "um, but I just like set them on fire with a bomb, an act used in the first 5 minutes of the game to illustrate the mongolions as being dishonorable. And...you're ok with that Uncle? Um, ok" I'd do some assassinations and he'd react the same. And then at the end of that very sequence, he criticizes me for my tactics in the cutscene portion.
Well...overall. I did notice some gameplay and story segregation. Still works mostly for me.
 

happyninja42

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Well...overall. I did notice some gameplay and story segregation. Still works mostly for me.
It works mostly for me too. That's why I used phrases like didn't stick the landing, or as well as it could have. Not saying it's terrible, just saying it didn't work as well as I think it could have. Especially given how much emphasis that morality was to the narrative. I still enjoy the game, as I think Sucker Punch is a really good studio, hell they made 2 of my all time favorite games. I just think the script might've benefited from one more pass, or fleshing out a few points a bit more. Still, overall a very good story.
 

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Still in act 2 just dicking around and found a mythic quest to get the Kansai armor. Now the duels in this game are not my favorite I can't get the parries to save my life even when I found a charm that is supposed to make that easier . So its like 2 in the morning and the last duel with Kanjiro just slapping around like nobodies business when the prompt for abandon and easier mode came up. I did not get better at technical finesse but the changing up my charms to have multiple melee buffs on allowed me to brute force my way through. Parries of all kind kick rocks though which the dodge into attack was less situational.

Also I love Kenji. He is dumbfuck who wants the do the right thing through dumbfuckery I love character like that.
 

happyninja42

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Still in act 2 just dicking around and found a mythic quest to get the Kansai armor. Now the duels in this game are not my favorite I can't get the parries to save my life even when I found a charm that is supposed to make that easier . So its like 2 in the morning and the last duel with Kanjiro just slapping around like nobodies business when the prompt for abandon and easier mode came up. I did not get better at technical finesse but the changing up my charms to have multiple melee buffs on allowed me to brute force my way through. Parries of all kind kick rocks though which the dodge into attack was less situational.

Also I love Kenji. He is dumbfuck who wants the do the right thing through dumbfuckery I love character like that.
Yeah I went for heavy offense in my charms for duels too. Mostly focusing on charms that either increased Guard damage, or gave me bonuses to other things if I broke an enemy's guard. Since the duels really are all about getting through the guard, it worked out pretty well. Once I got far enough though, I would just use Ghost Stance and then the 2 legendary attacks, staggered between forced sword locks, to drop duelists fast.

It was a huge ego boost, to have some guy come at me all "I will end you here!!" And I just trigger Ghost Stance, making the entire world react in accordance, and then wail on them, trigger Heavenly Strike, and the triple strike attack, and just drop them without getting hit through sheer offensive might. Fear the Ghost!!

And yes, Kenji was very amusing of a character. xD
 

Jarrito3002

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Ok so Ghost is going into the GOTY list and of all time on account of one singular two stage side quest. For those who beat it it involves
Yuriko her connection to Jins family as surrogate mom and later grandma and watching her alzheimers worsen so quick and that damn line from Jin "What do you see".

I have not teared up from a game like that in so long. I have had tears come down my face but my eyes were bloodshot. Had to call my grandma in New York that is how it hard it hit me.
 

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Here's something interesting:


Wait for the immortal line at 2:11.

Here's another thing semi-samurai related. Ghost has got me looking at Samurai/Ronin stuff again.

 

happyninja42

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Here's something interesting:


Wait for the immortal line at 2:11.

Here's another thing semi-samurai related. Ghost has got me looking at Samurai/Ronin stuff again.

That was kind of interesting, to see him say that it wasn't dishonorable for Jin to use those "dishonorable" tactics. "Just kill him." xD
I've definitely sort of washed my hands of the whole morality aspect of the game, given how many liberties SP took with the setting, and time periods of when certain things would have existed or not. Now I'm just like *shrugs* "meh, it's what it is in the game" and just leave it at that.

Still love the game though.
 
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That was kind of interesting, to see him say that it wasn't dishonorable for Jin to use those "dishonorable" tactics. "Just kill him." xD
I've definitely sort of washed my hands of the whole morality aspect of the game, given how many liberties SP took with the setting, and time periods of when certain things would have existed or not. Now I'm just like *shrugs* "meh, it's what it is in the game" and just leave it at that.

Still love the game though.
After I heard those lines, I dropped most of the Samurai chivalry, and went full Ghost a quarter way in. I had already planned on doing it, but seeing him say those lines made me confirm.
 

happyninja42

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After I heard those lines, I dropped most of the Samurai chivalry, and went full Ghost a quarter way in. I had already planned on doing it, but seeing him say those lines made me confirm.
Yeah my first playthrough I was going Ghost style anyway, as I hadn't encountered anything to indicate there was a "choice" in how I played it. Turned out there really wasn't, but the game sort of hinted at one point. By then though, I was already shanking dudes from rooftops and was like "oh well, ninja-mode for this playthrough it is then!"

Between that Which Ninja describing him as being a proto-ninja in philosophy (get the job done, and honor be damned), to tactics, etc, suggesting he isn't a samurai, and then that guy saying doing those things isn't dishonorable anyway, it's all conflicted and a mess. Hence my hand washing of the whole debate about it. xD

"He's totally acting like a ninja! And honor wasn't important to them, getting the job done was!" vs "he's one guy, against many, plus they aren't samurai, so you know, it isn't dishonorable, what he's doing. Just kill him."
 
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I got decent way into Act 2 and I'm enjoying the game more as I play more, which is definitely good. I really do feel the 1st island is way too big as I'm already like halfway through the content of the 2nd area. I really like the additions of the duels along with the new straw hat enemies. Though the archers have gotten more annoying shooting 3 arrows at a time. I feel like they mess up the flow of combat as you either got to run up and kill them, shoot them from afar or just block their arrows, and all of those options basically interrupts your normal melee samurai fights. I also kinda hate that the game keeps giving me stance tutorials (literally forcing me to switch stances at times) because I don't use the stance mechanic at all. I actually said before the game released that switching stances should be required to parry weapon types, but since it's just for staggering enemies, I don't see the point in switching stances (I just use my favorite wind stance for the kick) when all you have to do is parry or dodge.

Ghost of Tsushima_20200828001310.jpg

Ghost of Tsushima_20200828113348.jpg
 

happyninja42

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Hey anyone else run into the amusing bug where you do an insta-decapitate attack on a boss enemy, and then after the fighting is done....his headless corpse is one of those "i'm not quite dead yet!" enemies that you have to ground stab? Complete with grunting, gasping noises, despite not having a HEAD?!

Because I got that a lot, and it was hilarious.
 

Jarrito3002

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This thread is still going on yes yes and more yes.

Just wanted to say I have done it and got the Sly Cooper look and I have never been so happy. My love of old sucker punch has now combined with my love of new Sucker Punch.
 
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Hey anyone else run into the amusing bug where you do an insta-decapitate attack on a boss enemy, and then after the fighting is done....his headless corpse is one of those "i'm not quite dead yet!" enemies that you have to ground stab? Complete with grunting, gasping noises, despite not having a HEAD?!

Because I got that a lot, and it was hilarious.
Once, but never again after that.
 

happyninja42

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Once, but never again after that.
They might've patched it out or something since I played last, but yeah it happened a lot for me. First time it freaked me and my wife out. We were like "uhh...the fuck? Are there ZOMBIE MONGOLS now?!" and then just realized "oh...wait that's the dude I decapitated...ok phew!"