Current Systemic Issues in the Anime Industry and Community

[Izanagi009]

Well, given the Uzaki discussion, I figured this was a good follow up.

I am an anime fan. I have been watching the medium since Zoids on Toonami. But at the age of 26, I am finding major systemic issues with the medium and the community around it

First one I will point is is related to the Uzaki thing: Skewed and socially dissonant ideals of women. Yes, Japan is a different culture from the States in regards to women (women are seen more as dominant in the household compared to the workplace as example). However, i think even by the standards of Japanese culture, the odd fact that the childish and immature behavior of Uzaki is being treated as sexy is dissonant to the mainstream culture of Japan. This along with past trend regarding popular female characters such as overly submissive makes me feel that there is a disconnect in the anime community with regards to the realities of gender politics.

the second point i will rely is dependent on Hiroki Azuma's database theory with regards to otaku culture. The basic tenet is that instead of grand narratives, otaku focus on the collection of tropes and traits from a "database". This is supported in recent years by the repetition of tropes within the isekai genre. This has the side effect, imo, of artistic stagnation and an over-focus on the self gratification of hte audience over cultural progression.

Regardless, I wanted to get this out because, man, anime itself feels like it's a snake swallowing it's tail, or an isolated island ecosystem that will die out, a "Galapagos Island Effect" as it were

 

[Houseman]

that there is a disconnect in the anime community with regards to the realities of gender politics.

Good. Fiction doesn't have to keep in lock-step with reality, nor should it.

 

[Izanagi009]

Good. Fiction doesn't have to keep in lock-step with reality, nor should it.

I will be quite frank, I find the notion of escapist fiction in anime to be very unbalanced. Yes, the shows made and that i have issue with are made to escape from the realities of the world and to be a salve to stresses felt. However, I find that there is a lack of awareness of the fact that the medium is too focused on the escapist aspect and not the general artistic merits; In short, there isn't a counter balance to the escapism.

To relate back to your statement, yes fiction doesn't have to be in lock-step with reality but this is having effects on the community in terms of behavior and world view. and while yes, separation of fiction and reality exists, fiction still influences people and given the Uzaki discussion and how normal Uzaki's personality is for people, I feel that's a point to discuss and rectify. Normalization in this case is leading to social disconnect from general society.

All and all, i see th systemic issues in anime are leading to the community being more disconnected from normal society and to worldviews that could be damaging to personal development. I admit this is overly presumputous but evidence of normalization is a thing seeing the use of certain terms and the acceptance of certain tropes

 

[09philj]

A lot of toxicity in the anime fandom is caused by people who are unable to understand metaphors when when they occur in anime, so only absorb the most basic and superficial understanding of the story, and get very upset when other people find some subtextual meaning which they find objectionable. These tend to be the same people who perceive Japan as some kind of traditionalist utopia, and refuse to accept the many flaws that it's culture has, and that a lot of anime is made by weirdos and outsiders who aren't exactly fans of it either.

Also, anime constantly playing sexual harassment for laughs. It isn't funny, it's gross and tiresome.

 

[Houseman]

but this is having effects on the community in terms of behavior and world view.

That's not anime's fault, that's the person's fault for not being a "balanced" individual.
Everything you put into your brain might influence your behavior and world view, from the songs you listen to, down to the news you read. If you aren't broad enough with what you consume, you're going to end up with a world view that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.

It's like only eating one type of food for months. If you get some sort of vitamin deficiency, that's your own fault.

If you only consume media that promotes a certain worldview and become unbalanced because of it, that's your own fault.

Don't blame Lucky Charms for lacking in nutritional value. Blame the people who only eat Lucky Charms for not having a balanced diet.

how normal Uzaki's personality is for people

It isn't, that's what makes it entertaining. Nobody goes "I know a 19-year-old who acts just like that!"
If Uzaki were normal, there wouldn't be a story. How many stories about "normal people" do you read? None.

We read about the extraordinary, not the ordinary. We read about people who have done incredible things, or are placed in incredible worlds. We don't read about mundane people going about their mundane lives.

 

[Dreiko]

Well, given the Uzaki discussion, I figured this was a good follow up.

I am an anime fan. I have been watching the medium since Zoids on Toonami. But at the age of 26, I am finding major systemic issues with the medium and the community around it

First one I will point is is related to the Uzaki thing: Skewed and socially dissonant ideals of women. Yes, Japan is a different culture from the States in regards to women (women are seen more as dominant in the household compared to the workplace as example). However, i think even by the standards of Japanese culture, the odd fact that the childish and immature behavior of Uzaki is being treated as sexy is dissonant to the mainstream culture of Japan. This along with past trend regarding popular female characters such as overly submissive makes me feel that there is a disconnect in the anime community with regards to the realities of gender politics.

the second point i will rely is dependent on Hiroki Azuma's database theory with regards to otaku culture. The basic tenet is that instead of grand narratives, otaku focus on the collection of tropes and traits from a "database". This is supported in recent years by the repetition of tropes within the isekai genre. This has the side effect, imo, of artistic stagnation and an over-focus on the self gratification of hte audience over cultural progression.

Regardless, I wanted to get this out because, man, anime itself feels like it's a snake swallowing it's tail, or an isolated island ecosystem that will die out, a "Galapagos Island Effect" as it were

No the immature behavior is not itself sexy, the gap between the behavior and her looks is. The behavior itself in a vacuum is just cute. If you can't grasp that nuance don't bother analyzing stuff further and read more.

Isekai is just this day's popular thing. You're 26 so you may have missed it but do yourself a favor and look up giant robot and magical girl shows from the 80s and 90s. There were WAYYYY more of those, proportional to the total number of anime being made, than there are isekai shows nowadays. It is purely ignorant to claim this is a new thing that stems from the trope collection phenomenon.

And while that trope collection phenomenon is true to an extent, it is immensely overbroad to generalize it to the degree that you are. Tropes are not something that is used to the exclusion of character growth or other forms of storytelling, it is used on TOP of it. It is used as jumping-off board which gives you enough basic information going into a show or book or manga or what have you, and then it can spend more of its time doing actual character growth, time it would have needed to spend merely establishing the character's basic features.


And while anime is isolated to a degree and has its own rules, this is why we have all the uniqueness that we do. The galapagos have unique animal species not found anywhere else, which is why that biodiversity is valuable. It is not good to just introduce our basic ***** animals into the galapagos, merely because normie farmers everywhere else are used to handling them more.

 

[SupahEwok]

It's all about selling figurines and body pillows to lonely nerds, man.

 

[Dreiko]

Good. Fiction doesn't have to keep in lock-step with reality, nor should it.

I mean, there is that visual novel about a girl being excluded from a party because the party leader is sexist and going on and making her own party, nobody was mad about that series. It's always the other side that takes issue with people's escapism.

It's all about selling figurines and body pillows to lonely nerds, man.

Nah those are way too expensive for most people. DVD and BD sales are the main cash cow.

I will be quite frank, I find the notion of escapist fiction in anime to be very unbalanced. Yes, the shows made and that i have issue with are made to escape from the realities of the world and to be a salve to stresses felt. However, I find that there is a lack of awareness of the fact that the medium is too focused on the escapist aspect and not the general artistic merits; In short, there isn't a counter balance to the escapism.

To relate back to your statement, yes fiction doesn't have to be in lock-step with reality but this is having effects on the community in terms of behavior and world view. and while yes, separation of fiction and reality exists, fiction still influences people and given the Uzaki discussion and how normal Uzaki's personality is for people, I feel that's a point to discuss and rectify. Normalization in this case is leading to social disconnect from general society.

All and all, i see th systemic issues in anime are leading to the community being more disconnected from normal society and to worldviews that could be damaging to personal development. I admit this is overly presumputous but evidence of normalization is a thing seeing the use of certain terms and the acceptance of certain tropes

I think the opposite is happening. "Normal society" is a figment of people's imagination, what really exists is just a bunch of different niches, and those are clashing which is why we have the issues we do.

So what you see is anime community tendencies are seeping into other areas because our age group is coming into power. It's like when Andrew Yang was on Rogan and explained his way of thinking about developing the country in terms of an RTS game where you gotta build your infrastructure to get the good units. People are super uncomfortable that this little niche that they were used to looking down on and making fun of is surging.

Good.

 

[Iron]

Also, anime constantly playing sexual harassment for laughs. It isn't funny, it's gross and tiresome.

Yes.

It's all about selling figurines and body pillows to lonely nerds, man.

It's like Yu-Gi-Ho cards but for adults

 

[Shadyside]

We need mature anime for mature people.

 

[Iron]

We need mature anime for mature people.

Ishuzoku Reviewers?

 

[Shadyside]

Most of pop culture is utterly worthless and toxic no matter where it's from. Once they figure out the formula to maximize short term profits, they just keep doing the same thing until the next big thing comes along and the cycle will continue. Video games, cartoons, television, music, movies, and the entertainment industry in general just caters to what the masses want.

 

[WindKnight]

The problem is that a lot of them are made with only one concern in mind - getting paid, and making money.

And their quite happy to laser target their products at people willing to spend an inordinate amount of money on merch if they can get enough to get a profit and get paid. These paying audiences can be small - 500 or so - but if their paying upwards of £500 or the equivalent on BD, figures, etc its enough to take home a paycheck.

So they'll stick out a series with creepy uncomfortable gack that acts as audience repellent for everyone else (even in japan) if it hits that niche audience willing to spent that money.

 

[Houseman]

AND ANOTHER THING...

If you have a problem with Uzaki, do you also have a problem with all the male characters who act similarly?

Remember harem anime like Tenchi Muyo? Here we have a guy who, despite his intentions, keeps attracting all these women. He has no sexual desire for any of them. He is as clueless and as innocent as Uzaki is when it comes to sex.

Why aren't you as outraged with Tenchi as you are with Uzaki?
Why can men be clueless and we can all laugh at them, but when women are clueless, it's a faux pas?

 

[Dreiko]

AND ANOTHER THING...

If you have a problem with Uzaki, do you also have a problem with all the male characters who act similarly?

Remember harem anime like Tenchi Muyo? Here we have a guy who, despite his intentions, keeps attracting all these women. He has no sexual desire for any of them. He is as clueless and as innocent as Uzaki is when it comes to sex.

Why aren't you as outraged with Tenchi as you are with Uzaki?
Why can men be clueless and we can all laugh at them, but when women are clueless, it's a faux pas?

Hell you don't have to go that far. Goku in db super still doesn't know what sex is and he has 2 kids and is like 50something.


It's a common trope for shonen protags being irrationally obtuse about certain things. They're not children, they're not handicapped, it's just funny.

 

[Shadyside]

Hell you don't have to go that far. Goku in db super still doesn't know what sex is and he has 2 kids and is like 50something.


It's a common trope for shonen protags being irrationally obtuse about certain things. They're not children, they're not handicapped, it's just funny.

Nah man, they are basically on the spectrum. Which is why so many of them watch anime in the first place.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Hell you don't have to go that far. Goku in db super still doesn't know what sex is and he has 2 kids and is like 50something.


It's a common trope for shonen protags being irrationally obtuse about certain things. They're not children, they're not handicapped, it's just funny.

Actually, Goku is actually brain damaged. Goku was a typical sayian before falling and hitting his head on a rock. Violent and Homicidal outside of the pod, to the point where Grandpa Gohan couldn't handle him. One bump on the head with no medical treatment, and he's happy-go-lucky, kind, and really, really slow.

 

[Jarrito3002]

Japan is a country that has its own social and political problems for people that live that that can not even come close to being fully understood by people who only experience it in tidbits through one particular medium that bottle necks its tropes and concepts as to maximize profits and under pay its artist cause the money wheel does not stop moving.

I love my anime but some tropes can only take me so far and I have cut down my anime watching cause some shows either go too hard or have great premise but add those tropes and its murks the whole anime because of fear of that certain demographic not getting its endless fill.

An obtuse male protag to me is sometimes kick to the face of male gender expectations and sometimes a goddamn disgrace to all that is holy.

My take on the industry is that it churns out its copy paste while some turn out good the lack of variety and over reliance of tried and true tropes turns all my anime recommendations into on giant glob of the same show.

As for the community I have avoided a good amount of anime discussion from EVERYWHERE and my mentals have never thanked me enough. Anime protector are in the same much and on equal level of assclownery as its major detractors and will never stop being funny how its treated like some sort major prejudice and persecution.

 

[Dreiko]

Actually, Goku is actually brain damaged. Goku was a typical sayian before falling and hitting his head on a rock. Violent and Homicidal outside of the pod, to the point where Grandpa Gohan couldn't handle him. One bump on the head with no medical treatment, and he's happy-go-lucky, kind, and really, really slow.

That just made him kind and not aggressive. It didn't really cause him brain damage as much as undo the programming he had been subjected to in his pod while flying to earth. We see this because other saiyans are similarly-tempered to Goku and I doubt we can assume they all fell on their heads as kids or had to go through reformation kicking and screaming like Vegeta. The universe 6 girls are a prime example of this.

Also he's literally died a bunch of times and eaten senzu beans but he hasn't changed at all. Senzu beans would have healed any supposed brain damage he had as well as being revived by the DBs.

 

[Houseman]

That just made him kind and not aggressive. It didn't really cause him brain damage as much as undo the programming he had been subjected to in his pod while flying to earth. We see this because other saiyans are similarly-tempered to Goku and I doubt we can assume they all fell on their heads as kids or had to go through reformation kicking and screaming like Vegeta. The universe 6 girls are a prime example of this.

Also he's literally died a bunch of times and eaten senzu beans but he hasn't changed at all. Senzu beans would have healed any supposed brain damage he had as well as being revived by the DBs.

I forgot, do senzu beans grow back tails? Or is that just resurrection that does that?

But Yamcha still has that scar on his cheek.