Whistleblowing Nurse: ICE may be doing an ethnic cleansing via sterilization

[Secondhand Revenant]

Not my understanding. Example https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i...edical-providers-might-ignore-them-2019-04-05

Wow just had to come back to day, did you even bother to read the article? It's talking about them having you sign something to override the DNR. As in they need your explicit permission and even then the person said these can be ethically dubious if legal.

 

[gorfias]

Wow just had to come back to day, did you even bother to read the article? It's talking about them having you sign something to override the DNR. As in they need your explicit permission and even then the person said these can be ethically dubious if legal.

No, just saw and acknowledge the truth of the title:

"Why your doctor might ignore your DNR — and it’s perfectly legal "

 

[Buyetyen]

No, just saw and acknowledge the truth of the title:

"Why your doctor might ignore your DNR — and it’s perfectly legal "

Key word being "might" not "will" or "should." But this is symptomatic of the whole right wing hangup about consent in general.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

No, just saw and acknowledge the truth of the title:

"Why your doctor might ignore your DNR — and it’s perfectly legal "

While seated in the waiting room of a Florida outpatient surgery center, an 82-year-old patient received a nasty surprise. The receptionist asked him to sign a form stipulating that the facility would disregard his properly executed DNR [do-not-resuscitate] order.

So what happened is you're utterly ignorant of the subject and looked for a *headline* to support what you wanted to be true without reading it. The article supports that the doctors still actually need your consent via signing a form.

 

[Elijin]

No, just saw and acknowledge the truth of the title:

"Why your doctor might ignore your DNR — and it’s perfectly legal "

"No, but the headline said what I wanted to hear, so I stopped there!"

 

[gorfias]

So what happened is you're utterly ignorant of the subject and looked for a *headline* to support what you wanted to be true without reading it. The article supports that the doctors still actually need your consent via signing a form.

Hardly. Read the article again: " Because you cannot anticipate every conceivable scenario when you might get resuscitated or receive life-altering care "
You can try but you really can't. And doctors are going to do what they're going to do.

"No, but the headline said what I wanted to hear, so I stopped there!"

True. My bad but in the end, it still confirms what I already knew.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Hardly. Read the article again: " Because you cannot anticipate every conceivable scenario when you might get resuscitated or receive life-altering care "
You can try but you really can't. And doctors are going to do what they're going to do.


True. My bad but in the end, it still confirms what I already knew.

"

Because you cannot anticipate every conceivable scenario when you might get resuscitated or receive life-altering care, think ahead. Write an expansive letter describing under what conditions you want to be kept alive (to play with your grandkids?, eat and drink on your own?, cheer your favorite sports team? etc.).

Use the letter as an opportunity to share your values and end-of-life philosophy. For instance, consider whether you prioritize pain management over mental clarity (or vice versa) if battling a major illness. Sign and date the letter and share it with your family, medical providers and anyone else involved in your care.

“Be as clear as you can be with your written documents and with your loved ones so that your health care agent can express your wishes on your behalf,” said Robyn Shapiro, an attorney and founder of the Health Sciences Law Group in Fox Point, Wis. “Be clear with your doctor as well.”

An often-overlooked step involves completing a psychiatric advance directive, especially if you have a mental illness. Otherwise, a crisis can leave you dependent on others to make life-or-death decisions for you.

“A psychiatric advance directive can be a different form or part of standard advance directives,” Shapiro said. “If you have a history of mental illness, you can say if you want a loved one to enter you in a clinical [drug] trial or get electroshock therapy.”

"

Which is all advice to people, not a comment on what doctors will or will not do.

The article is clear throughout that it is talking about doctors asking you to sign a form to ignore your DNR

" Always ask ahead of time if a hospital, outpatient surgical center or other provider will honor your DNR order. Know their policy in advance so that you’re not caught off guard when they ask you to sign something just before they wheel you into the operating room. "

 

[gorfias]

"

Because you cannot anticipate every conceivable scenario when you might get resuscitated or receive life-altering care, think ahead. Write an expansive letter describing under what conditions you want to be kept alive (to play with your grandkids?, eat and drink on your own?, cheer your favorite sports team? etc.).

Use the letter as an opportunity to share your values and end-of-life philosophy. For instance, consider whether you prioritize pain management over mental clarity (or vice versa) if battling a major illness. Sign and date the letter and share it with your family, medical providers and anyone else involved in your care.

“Be as clear as you can be with your written documents and with your loved ones so that your health care agent can express your wishes on your behalf,” said Robyn Shapiro, an attorney and founder of the Health Sciences Law Group in Fox Point, Wis. “Be clear with your doctor as well.”

An often-overlooked step involves completing a psychiatric advance directive, especially if you have a mental illness. Otherwise, a crisis can leave you dependent on others to make life-or-death decisions for you.

“A psychiatric advance directive can be a different form or part of standard advance directives,” Shapiro said. “If you have a history of mental illness, you can say if you want a loved one to enter you in a clinical [drug] trial or get electroshock therapy.”

"

Which is all advice to people, not a comment on what doctors will or will not do.

The article is clear throughout that it is talking about doctors asking you to sign a form to ignore your DNR

" Always ask ahead of time if a hospital, outpatient surgical center or other provider will honor your DNR order. Know their policy in advance so that you’re not caught off guard when they ask you to sign something just before they wheel you into the operating room. "

All true. But what you need to understand that this article is implying but not saying: the doctor is going to do what the doctor is going to do.
Scenario: You have all your ducks in a row. In case of your heart stopping, DNR.
On surgery table, your heart stops. The doctor knows and is aware of your DNR. Even so, he knows starting your heart back up will be simple and does so.
Even if this makes it to court somehow, the jury may find a normal reasonable patient, under those circumstances, would have wanted the doctor to disregard the DNR. For all intents and purposes, what the doctor has done is legal.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

All true. But what you need to understand that this article is implying but not saying: the doctor is going to do what the doctor is going to do.
Scenario: You have all your ducks in a row. In case of your heart stopping, DNR.
On surgery table, your heart stops. The doctor knows and is aware of your DNR. Even so, he knows starting your heart back up will be simple and does so.
Even if this makes it to court somehow, the jury may find a normal reasonable patient, under those circumstances, would have wanted the doctor to disregard the DNR. For all intents and purposes, what the doctor has done is legal.

That is *NOT* what the article has said at all, actually. The article is warning that they may have you sign things that override your DNR for that surgery or while in the care of that facility.

Nothing in the article says they will go ahead and ignore things anyways even if you didn't sign it. You are making claims that are not actually backed up by anything.

 

[gorfias]

That is *NOT* what the article has said at all, actually. The article is warning that they may have you sign things that override your DNR for that surgery or while in the care of that facility.

Nothing in the article says they will go ahead and ignore things anyways even if you didn't sign it. You are making claims that are not actually backed up by anything.

Guess you need to be a more advanced reader to be able to place things in context.

 

[Avnger]

Guess you need to be a more advanced reader to be able to place things in context.

The only "context" you're using here is your personal confirmation bias.

 

[happyninja42]

Hmm, an agency accused of destroying medical records on detainees, can't find any medical records that show they've been doing illegal stuff. I wonder what they might've been shredding.

I'm aware this smacks of conspiracy theory "the fact that they have no evidence is evidence of the evidence!" kind of logic. But, I mean it's not like shredding incriminating documents is a novel concept for people doing shady shit. And that is one of the things the whistleblower indicated was going on in their initial statement.

So...*shrugs*.

 

[gorfias]

The only "context" you're using here is your personal confirmation bias.

Meh. I think you are being willfully ignorant. Just my impression of what you have written... in context of this thread. It is what it is. Having instructions in writing is helpful to doctors but I stand by the position, with this article as supporting evidence, that doctors can/will do as they think appropriate regardless of that is written.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

The only "context" you're using here is your personal confirmation bias.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Do you have anything to actually contribute to this? Because the article pretty clearly doesn't say what Gorfias wants it to say, it's about getting people to sign forms overriding their DNR and he wants to claim it means something more.

 

[Buyetyen]

Having instructions in writing is helpful to doctors but I stand by the position, with this article as supporting evidence, that doctors can/will do as they think appropriate regardless of that is written.

Yeah, fuck the Hippocratic oath and fuck HIPPA laws and especially fuck malpractice laws!

Is this how I law and order? Am I doing it right?