Whistleblowing Nurse: ICE may be doing an ethnic cleansing via sterilization

Houseman

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it's not as if your argument is minimising the threat of genocide,
What does this even mean?
Are you telling me that I can't ever disagree with someone when they claim that something is a genocide, no matter how little evidence they have at their disposal?

Are the rules "the first person to claim genocide wins and the other person has to shut up or else they're a horrible person"?

by claiming that poison is somehow not poisonous, and basically accusing the survivors of a tragedy of being liars.
As far as anyone knows, EVERYONE SURVIVED. The person that started the 1917 bath riots even survived! Do you have information that I don't have? Do you have any stories from "survivors" that recounted the horrors of seeing their fellow immigrants die in the showers? Point me to somebody who says "yeah, they were killing us off left and right in those showers. I fled and managed to survive". Point me to this survivor that I am calling a liar.

but don't pretend it's something it's not
I'm not pretending, because it really wasn't genocide, by any definition of the word, and absolutely nobody can prove the claim that it was. It's not like I'm ignoring mountains of shoes or mass graves or emaciated bodies or ACTUAL TALES FROM SURVIVORS. It's not like that because none of you have ANY EVIDENCE.

The only evidence you have is: "they used a known fumigator to fumigate clothing".
That's it.
That's what you're calling a genocide.
No body count
No stories from survivors
No eyewitnesses to any deaths.

Just the spooky word "zyklon"

A genocide of lice, maybe.

Aren’t you curious why documentation might not occur? Isn’t the fact they didn’t document it the perfect justification for your “skepticism?”
But aren't they entering into America? Isn't this an American facility? So wouldn't America be responsible for any documentation?

I doubt most Americans dealt with them as a daily hazard.
I doubt Mexican Immigrants had to deal with this as a daily hazard too, unless they crossed the border back and forth, each day.
But they should have been dead after the first time, because this was a GENOCIDE, remember?

Using ignorance of it poisoning people as a defense AFTER they already knew it was poisoning people... Seriously?
Are you ignoring that we Americans have been using Zyklon (today, under a different name) as a fumigant, down to this very day? Seriously?
So are we committing genocide against ourselves? Yes or no.
Because you seem to think that zyklon = genocide. That's the extent of your argument.
 
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lil devils x

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I doubt most Americans dealt with them as a daily hazard.
Just like they thought making Radium Jewelry was the next great thing too at one time. Arguing like it didn't kill people now though is what is beyond ridiculous in this day and age knowing what we know now. Most people, however, didn't walk around playing with Radium at the time regardless of what some company promoted.
 

Houseman

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Just like they thought making Radium Jewelry was the next great thing too at one time. Arguing like it didn't kill people now though is what is beyond ridiculous in this day and age knowing what we know now. Most people, however, didn't walk around playing with Radium at the time regardless of what some company promoted.

Are you claiming "America subjected Mexicans to chemicals that we now know are harmful, and as a result, unintentionally did them harm"?
Or are you claiming "America subjected Mexicans to chemicals in a deliberately harmful way, in an attempt to kill them"?

Because those are two very different statements. I agree with the first, but not with the second.

I'm not "arguing that it didn't kill people", although I do enjoy pointing out that you have zero evidence that it did, I'm arguing that "it wasn't genocide".
For something to be genocide it has to be deliberate. You can't just commit genocide "on accident".
 
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lil devils x

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Zyklon B was used to execute prisoners in the US until 2010, when it was finally outlawed. There is a reason why Cyanosil is banned in so many places. You exclaiming they still use harmful pesticides! isn't helping your argument here.

 

Revnak

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But aren't they entering into America? Isn't this an American facility? So wouldn't America be responsible for any documentation?
The Americans didn’t care. That part isn’t surprising.

I doubt Mexican Immigrants had to deal with this as a daily hazard too, unless they crossed the border back and forth, each day.
But they should have been dead after the first time, because this was a GENOCIDE, remember?
Most migrant workers crossed back and forth regularly. This isn’t unknown. A genocide also does not have to occur instantaneously. It can involve a drawn out process. This is not atypical.
 

Gordon_4

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Whether any of the women who have suffered these abuses came into America by an approved port of asylum or not is irrelevant. They were under the care and jurisdiction of ICE who had a duty to see to it that their dignity was not impugned and their personal sanctity was not violated. Should these revelations prove to be true, then ICE have failed grossly in their duty of care. The responsible parties should be terminated and criminally prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

This situation is unacceptable.
 

lil devils x

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The Americans didn’t care. That part isn’t surprising.


Most migrant workers crossed back and forth regularly. This isn’t unknown. A genocide also does not have to occur instantaneously. It can involve a drawn out process. This is not atypical.
Sadly many of those workers were pretty young. The girl who started the riot was only 17. You didn't have older people doing this as they didn't live that long.

They already had documentation by the companies manufacturing these chemical that they were harmful and lethal to humans at the time this was happening. They knew this was poisonous to humans and had used it to kill people already. They cannot even claim ignorance, as they had already used it to kill people by that point. Hell they were even killing people with cyanide in chemical warfare in the 1800's.
 
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Houseman

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Zyklon B was used to execute prisoners in the US until 2010, when it was finally outlawed. There is a reason why Cyanosil is banned in so many places. You exclaiming they still use harmful pesticides! isn't helping your argument here.

I say again, your only argument is "oOoOoO Zyklon is a spOoOoOky chemical"

Is it toxic? Absolutely.
Can it be used safely? Yes.
Do you have any evidence at all that suggests that the use of this chemical, intentionally or unintentionally, caused harm? No you do not.
Do you have any evidence at all that it was used intentionally to case harm, thus fulfilling the criteria for what constitutes a genocide? No you do not.

So take your own advice and stop lying and spreading misinformation.
 

Revnak

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I say again, your only argument is "oOoOoO Zyklon is a spOoOoOky chemical"

Is it toxic? Absolutely.
Can it be used safely? Yes.
Do you have any evidence at all that suggests that the use of this chemical, intentionally or unintentionally, caused harm? No you do not.
Do you have any evidence at all that it was used intentionally to case harm, thus fulfilling the criteria for what constitutes a genocide? No you do not.

So take your own advice and stop lying and spreading misinformation.
This argument can and was used by cigarette companies for decades.
 

lil devils x

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This argument can and was used by cigarette companies for decades.
We actually do have proof, they used it in chemical warfare to kill people in the 1800's. Even trying to feign ignorance at this point is even too absurd to pander.

 

lil devils x

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Okay, then where’s all the proof for stuff like Moses parting the Red Sea? Or Noah’s Ark?
It is funny though because according to John's Hopkin's it has actually been used to kill people for like 2 millennia...
 

Houseman

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We actually do have proof, they used it in chemical warfare to kill people in the 1800's. Even trying to feign ignorance at this point is even too absurd to pander.
Your argument has been reduced to: "People used this chemical to kill people, therefore, the only use this chemical has is to kill people"
I hope I don't need to tell you how fallacious that is.

Okay, then where’s all the proof for stuff like Moses parting the Red Sea? Or Noah’s Ark?
If you want to discuss that topic, start a new thread.
 
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lil devils x

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Your argument has been reduced to: "People used this chemical to kill people, therefore, the only use this chemical has is to kill people"
I hope I don't need to tell you how fallacious that is.



If you want to discuss that topic, start a new thread.
Yes, because your logic is " They have been using this chemical to kill people for 2 millennia so we should use it on and on things people put on their bodies in multiple toxic forms because it is TOTALLY safe for people"... LMAO! They didn't just use Hydrogen Cyanide, they used other forms on the people as well. That way they can stack the toxicity.
By your logic, that just means they must have been totally looking out for their health and safety.
 

Revnak

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Requiring evidence as a prerequisite for belief has been used by reasonable people for millennia.
The evidence is that these chemicals are highly dangerous and can easily kill or harm someone over repeated exposure or cause significant birth defects. These people were repeatedly exposed to them, that is documented. There absolutely is evidence, just evidence you don’t care about.
 

Houseman

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Yes, because your logic is " They have been using this chemical to kill people for 2 millennia so we should use it on and on things people put on their bodies in multiple toxic forms because it is TOTALLY safe for people"... LMAO!


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Hydrogen cyanide is used in many industries. It’s used by the military as a chemical warfare agent. It is also used commercially for fumigation, electroplating, mining, chemical synthesis, and the production of synthetic fibers, plastics, dyes, and pesticides. Some examples of workers at risk of being exposed to hydrogen cyanide include the following:

  • Workers who commercially fumigate ships and buildings
  • Agricultural workers who fumigate outdoor pests in areas such as fruit orchards
  • Factory workers in industries that manufacture acrylic fibers, synthetic rubber, and plastics
  • Steel and iron workers who work in plants that harden iron and steel


Yes, there is quite a lot of evidence proving that Zyklon has uses other than killing people.


They didn't just use Hydrogen Cyanide, they used other forms on the people as well. That way they can stack the toxicity.
By your logic, that means they must have been totally looking out for their health are safety.
Do you have any evidence that they weren't looking out for their health and safety? It's YOUR claim. YOU are the one claiming it was genocide. Where's YOUR evidence? Is it "SpOoOoOky chemicals"? Like I said, if you want me to, I could probably find evidence that they used each and every spooky chemical on Americans as well, for the exact same delousing and sanitizing reasons. American children had their hair washed with gasoline/kerosene to remove lice, for example.

This is a conspiracy theory at this point. You and Revnak are coming up with all sorts of far-fetched explanations like "they wanted to kill them slowly over multiple border crossings" when they could have simply shot or gassed them to death. They could've, right? They had illuminati-tier cover-up powers to hide the truth from everybody, right? So why not just do it quickly instead of slowly, so that the causes of death become indistinguishable from natural causes, and allow their target to linger for 50, 60, 70 years?

The evidence is that these chemicals are highly dangerous and can easily kill or harm someone over repeated exposure or cause significant birth defects. These people were repeatedly exposed to them, that is documented
And did 1917 Americans know that?
If so, then why did they fumigate their homes, mattresses, and clothing with these dangerous chemicals?

You two forget, you're supposed to be proving malicious intent, not merely accidental exposure to toxic chemicals due to scientific ignorance. Like I said, you can't commit genocide on accident.
 
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Houseman

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I found a site I think you two would enjoy