Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[hanselthecaretaker]

I think "earning the status" is really just down to whether the audience chooses to accept that personality / writer. And a lot of times that really just comes down to whether the audience likes what the person is saying or not, because how much credibility do you really need to talk about video games?

Look at all the YouTubers that are out there that do deep dives into game design, but as soon as you show those videos to someone actually in game development, they'll tell you it's a bunch of nonsense, even if interesting coming from a "players" perspective. And even then it doesn't matter, if the audience finds what the person is saying interesting enough, they'll continue to consume it.

Any examples of “deep dives” specifically? Just wondering if it might be stuff like Noclip, or others that are less “official” looking. They seem pretty legit.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Any examples of “deep dives” specifically? Just wondering if it might be stuff like Noclip or others that are less “official” looking. They seem pretty legit.

On the game design front, maybe not off the top of my head.

But there's countless examples of sources that people think are credible and don't know jack shit about the industry.

Pretty Good Gaming, Downward Thrust, etc are a couple that come to mind. Though it seems both have pretty much died off now, and Pretty Good Gaming seems to have a new crew. But if you check their most popular videos, it's just clickbait crap.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Downward Thrust

Oh god, those type of Youtubers were ridiculous. I remember Downward and CleanPrinceGaming being "big" for a minute and a half. [insert game] didn't just die, it was MURDERED!!! The CleanPrince guy moved onto a new channel Nerdstalgic that is completely as vapid as his gaming channel. I don't even know how those channels get on my feed when I never watched a video from the channel to begin with.

 

[sXeth]

Oh god, those type of Youtubers were ridiculous. I remember Downward and CleanPrinceGaming being "big" for a minute and a half. [insert game] didn't just die, it was MURDERED!!! The CleanPrince guy moved onto a new channel Nerdstalgic that is completely as vapid as his gaming channel. I don't even know how those channels get on my feed when I never watched a video from the channel to begin with.

Youtube puts them in the same "genre" as it were as jimquisition. That said, of the few times I looked at thsoe videos, I would say while Jim's takes are sometimes hyperbolic to the point of stretching accuracy, the aforementioned ones don't even seem basically aware of how the games they're talking about functioned, or the contents thereof from anything closer then a thirdhand perspective.


Not that accuracy is particularly common in the games journalism in general. The review(?) for the FO76 expansion on this very site itself is praising NPC interactions that were there since the base game as part of the new update (granted, the writer also mentioned he never finished the base game before).


The main sort of dividing line is primarily the batch taht don't play any of the games they talk about by all indication, versus the ones that either have played, or at least had the common sense to research things if they're playing at being a news show.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I just don't see why you can't have actual gamers whose skill is worth respecting be the journalist.

But then how do we dismiss their opinions out-of-hand when they fail to give our favorite game the 10/10 it so obviously deserves?

 

[dscross]

But then how do we dismiss their opinions out-of-hand when they fail to give our favorite game the 10/10 it so obviously deserves?

Surely game journalism is aimed at people who haven't bought the game yet?

 

[Nick Calandra]

Not that accuracy is particularly common in the games journalism in general. The review(?) for the FO76 expansion on this very site itself is praising NPC interactions that were there since the base game as part of the new update (granted, the writer also mentioned she never finished the base game before).

Fixed that for ya.


But yes, articles aren't always perfect and often times mistakes like that are very much blown way out of proportion by YouTubers like the ones listed above to "stick it" to the games journalists.

 

[Houseman]

But yes, articles aren't always perfect and often times mistakes like that are very much blown way out of proportion by YouTubers like the ones listed above to "stick it" to the games journalists.

Maybe YouTubers would be less likely to "stick it" to the games journalists if they believed that games journalists were actually passionate about gaming, and not just opportunists giving their hobby a bad name.

There's probably an element of defensiveness, where those who criticize journalists feel that they need to protect their hobby from those who would ruin it. "Ha! They never played the game all the way! This proves it! They're not a real gamer!" or something like that. It's not entirely out of meanness, it's out of passion for their hobby and disappointment with those who are given jobs to write for their hobby.

I don't know if games journalism deserves better or not, but I'm certainly unhappy with the "current state of games journalism", so I could totally see myself dunking on that review.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Maybe YouTubers would be less likely to "stick it" to the games journalists if they believed that games journalists were actually passionate about gaming, and not just opportunists giving their hobby a bad name.

There's probably an element of defensiveness, where those who criticize journalists feel that they need to protect their hobby from those who would ruin it. "Ha! They never played the game all the way! This proves it! They're not a real gamer!" or something like that.

I don't know if games journalism deserves better or not, but I'm certainly unhappy with the "current state of games journalism", so I could totally see myself dunking on that review.

You do realize that most people that write about games ARE passionate about games? You're saying the same thing that lots of people online like to point out when half of the time it's a very select few people that are causing problems for the rest of us through their actions on social media. I guarantee you that MOST games writers are legitimately passionate about games, but all anyone ever hears from are the same few people that cause constant drama and bullshit on social media.

I myself am not on their good side and have had to either mute or block them due to how quickly they will dogpile the second they disagree with you.

Hell, me even running The Escapist has basically put me on their blacklist.

And why do you think those articles keep being written that gamers don't like? Because people keep clicking on them, they're specifically catering to the reactionaries who believe "journalists" are ruining their hobby. The same reason that "gamer" has been turned into a derogatory term by the very same people that write about games.

It's a ridiculous cycle of bait and switch and both the "journalists" and "YouTube" users feed off the drama.

I'm not gonna try and defend games journalism to you or anyone. I've been doing this long enough to see how things have changed and gotten better in some areas and worse in others. But yea, you wanna point out an error in a review that's fine, but dunking on a writer making a honest mistake isn't the way to go about it and is a shitty social media tactic when you can't just politely correct an error.

 

[sXeth]

I'd consider it something of a game of broken telephone.

You start with a honest mistake (such as the one I noted), perhaps caused by rush as most game reviews are jumping at the potentially narrow relevance window of their subject matter. Or even a stylistic exaggeration (as is common with something like ZP or Jim, there's a presentation aspect that essentially boils down ot inaccuracy if you take it out of its context and take it in full seriousness).


Someone reports that, then someone else reports one someones report of that. And that last guy in the chain or the next guy after them is doing the weird thing where the positive or negative attribute is massively exaggerated or based on an incorrect impression. CPG throwing up a video about how Fallotu76 was redeemed by adding NPCs, while equally on him for never having played the thing at either time or doing *his* own research, could source back to a review article where 2/3 of the NPC's mentioned weren't from the expansion. Unlikely, cause there's no bandwagon hype to ride either way for such clickbaity types, but possible.


There's also something of a weird tendency in the last year or so to use single user Reddit/Twitter posts as some sort of "community statement" on a game. Which Ican't say I've seen on here, but I"ve definitely seen pop up elsewhere. I (and my memory on this one is fuzzy) think it was Kotaku that literally sourced an entire article on Destiny citing a single reddit post as the community's overall opinion, which was actually deleted before or within a few hours of the article going up.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I'd consider it something of a game of broken telephone.

You start with a honest mistake (such as the one I noted), perhaps caused by rush as most game reviews are jumping at the potentially narrow relevance window of their subject matter. Or even a stylistic exaggeration (as is common with something like ZP or Jim, there's a presentation aspect that essentially boils down ot inaccuracy if you take it out of its context and take it in full seriousness).


Someone reports that, then someone else reports one someones report of that. And that last guy in the chain or the next guy after them is doing the weird thing where the positive or negative attribute is massively exaggerated or based on an incorrect impression. CPG throwing up a video about how Fallotu76 was redeemed by adding NPCs, while equally on him for never having played the thing at either time or doing *his* own research, could source back to a review article where 2/3 of the NPC's mentioned weren't from the expansion. Unlikely, cause there's no bandwagon hype to ride either way for such clickbaity types, but possible.


There's also something of a weird tendency in the last year or so to use single user Reddit/Twitter posts as some sort of "community statement" on a game. Which Ican't say I've seen on here, but I"ve definitely seen pop up elsewhere. I (and my memory on this one is fuzzy) think it was Kotaku that literally sourced an entire article on Destiny citing a single reddit post as the community's overall opinion, which was actually deleted before or within a few hours of the article going up.

Yea...you wanna talk about credibility, the articles that make me very annoyed are the ones that call out entire communities by pulling some random Twitter user with 10 followers to push an agenda...

 

[Houseman]

You do realize that most people that write about games ARE passionate about games?

Then it's unfortunate that those people aren't able to shake the embarrassing reputation that games journalists have. A few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
Perhaps if they would write and denounce those "journalists" who clearly aren't passionate about gaming, the industry would be better for it. Something like "That guy who tried to play cuphead is an embarrassment to my profession" or "Journalists who need "easy modes" should find another industry to write for", or even "Gamespot shouldn't have fired Jeff Gerstmann for giving a bad review to a game his outlet was paid to promote".

Why are the ones that don't have jobs in the industry the only ones who are speaking out against these embarrassments?

The Escapist once had a bunch of daring articles that went against the current status quo and talked about things that nobody else dared to talk about. All those articles are gone now. You know the ones I mean.

So it's not enough that the good journalists are out there publishing good journalism. That won't fix their reputation. They need to "drain the swamp" so to speak. As unfair as it may be, they will be punished for crimes that their peers commit until those peers and the mess they made are cleaned up. That's how it works all around the world. Catholics get a bad rap because of a few child molesters. Gamers get a bad rap because of 13 year olds on Xbox Live yelling slurs and jokes about your mom. Cops get a bad rap because of videos of police brutality.

Every "group" is judged by their worst. Unless the group ousts and distances themselves from the bad actors, the perception will remain. This is human nature.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Then it's unfortunate that those people aren't able to shake the embarrassing reputation that games journalists have. A few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
Perhaps if they would write and denounce those "journalists" who clearly aren't passionate about gaming, the industry would be better for it. Something like "That guy who tried to play cuphead is an embarrassment to my profession" or "Journalists who need "easy modes" should find another industry to write for", or even "Gamespot shouldn't have fired Jeff Gerstmann for giving a bad review to a game his outlet was paid to promote".

Why are the ones that don't have jobs in the industry the only ones who are speaking out against these embarrassments?

The Escapist once had a bunch of daring articles that went against the current status quo and talked about things that nobody else dared to talk about. All those articles are gone now. You know the ones I mean.

So it's not enough that the good journalists are out there publishing good journalism. That won't fix their reputation. They need to "drain the swamp" so to speak. As unfair as it may be, they will be punished for crimes that their peers commit until those peers and they mess they made is cleaned up. That's how it works all around the world. Catholics get a bad rap because of a few child molesters. Gamers get a bad rap because of 13 year olds on Xbox Live yelling slurs and jokes about your mom. Cops get a bad rap because of videos of police brutality.

Every "group" is judged by their worst. Unless the group ousts and distances themselves from the bad actors, the perception will remain. This is human nature.

That’s easy to say to do until you’re on the job and wanna voice other opinions, but you know...cancel culture.

 

[Houseman]

That’s easy to say to do until you’re on the job and wanna voice other opinions, but you know...cancel culture.

Who is there to cancel you, and for what reasons? You mean there really is a shadowy cabal of journalists working together to protect their own interests?

I kid, but since your hands are tied, that's why so many gamers have internalized that it's up to them to do the work that others are too afraid to do. You really have no room to complain. They're just doing what you should be doing. Youtubers dunking on your authors is the equivalent of the hero you deserve, but not the hero you need. You're the hero you need, and you can either die trying, or live to see yourself become the villain.

Yes, thank you, very melodramatic, I know.
"You", here, means the general, hypothetical "you" as a stand-in for games journalists, not you personally.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Who is there to cancel you, and for what reasons? You mean there really is a shadowy cabal of journalists working together to protect their own interests?

I kid, but since your hands are tied, that's why so many gamers have internalized that it's up to them to do the work that others are too afraid to do. You really have no room to complain. They're just doing what you should be doing. Youtubers dunking on your authors is the equivalent of the hero you deserve, but not the hero you need. You're the hero you need, and you can either die trying, or live to see yourself become the villain.

Yes, thank you, very melodramatic, I know.
"You", here, means the general, hypothetical "you" as a stand-in for games journalists, not you personally.

To put it this way, I asked for feedback from our own readership a few months ago on Twitter, and was instantly heckled by "colleagues" I had never even interacted with in any capacity and was mildly dogpiled when they started RT'ing me to their followers when I was just trying to defuse. I got threatening messages in my DMs too. Not exaggerating, all I did was ask for feedback from our readership and got a snarky response from someone which I questioned and that's all it took.

It's not any sort of secret thing, it's done out in the open and trust me, there's a lot of people that know it's going on. One dogpile over literally nothing was enough for me to write them off and have no interactions with them past that.

That's why I just don't care to even try to compete with them anymore and we're just doing our own thing here and distancing from any of that to focus on a positive and collaborative atmosphere. I want absolutely no part of any of the drama that goes on. So to be completely frank, I really don't care what anyone thinks about games journalists anymore, I just don't. It's not worth the trouble both socially and career wise.

The only way I see us helping to "solve" any sort of problem is just producing quality and fun work.

We're gonna do our thing here and have fun with it and that's all I care about, and I'll tell you what. People that are actually paying attention to what we're doing here on The Escapist are noticing, and enjoying what we're doing. Having over 100+ developers sign up for a summer showcase is indicative of that, plus all the positive responses we've received from our community and private messages from others.

That's what is important to me.

 

[Houseman]

I want absolutely no part of any of the drama that goes on. So to be completely frank, I really don't care what anyone thinks about games journalists anymore, I just don't. It's not worth the trouble both socially and career wise.

The only way I see us helping to "solve" any sort of problem is just producing quality and fun work.

I can respect wanting to remain neutral. I think you'll find it difficult, however. Even if you just want to tend to your own garden and ignore the zeitgeist, it won't ignore you. It'll force your hand one way or the other. You'll either end up going along with it, or destroyed by it.

Best Wishes.

 

[Dreiko]

I'd just say to ask for feedback in the place your readership reads your work and not on twitter. Clearly most people who were giving feedback would not be part of the readership there lol.

And you don't have to be neutral to ignore them. You just don't need to die on every hill sort to speak. This thread originally was about ffvii which is a pretty special hill, same with Sekiro and DS and whatnot. But those are the exceptions. It's not like we do this on everything they say that's dumb.be


And I dunno, I am a bit weirded out by the amount that twitter and social media is brought into this. I have one too but I mainly just use it to follow game companies, not individual people. I guess it's why I'm in a healthy place about this but basically I don't think that twitter is the world. It's just a vertical slice. There's a whole other real world outside it. Maybe use a Discord? Those are a lot more relevant and useful I find. Twitter is like facebook and reddit nowadays, too many normies gunking up the place lol. Can't really delve deep into anything without it having derailed.

 

[dscross]

And I dunno, I am a bit weirded out by the amount that twitter and social media is brought into this. I have one too but I mainly just use it to follow game companies, not individual people. I guess it's why I'm in a healthy place about this but basically I don't think that twitter is the world. It's just a vertical slice. There's a whole other real world outside it. Maybe use a Discord? Those are a lot more relevant and useful I find. Twitter is like facebook and reddit nowadays, too many normies gunking up the place lol. Can't really delve deep into anything without it having derailed.

I dunno why you are so weirded out by it. Journalists often use as many social media outlets as they can to get their stuff out there. It's obvious. People are different and use different things to get their news. It's about reach.

 

[Dreiko]

I dunno why you are so weirded out by it. Journalists often use as many social media outlets as they can get their stuff out there. It's obvious. People are different and use different things to get their news. It's about reach.

I can see making an announcement of something everywhere to just get the word out but when the subject is getting feedback as it is here, to rely on twitter of all things is odd. You don't need to interact with people past that initial post when you're just extending your reach so the irrelevant people who just wanna cause conflict don't matter and the relevant people see it no matter what they do but for meaningful feedback, twitter isn't the place I'd advise someone to go to.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I can see making an announcement of something everywhere to just get the word out but when the subject is getting feedback as it is here, to rely on twitter of all things is odd. You don't need to interact with people past that initial post when you're just extending your reach so the irrelevant people who just wanna cause conflict don't matter and the relevant people see it no matter what they do but for meaningful feedback, twitter isn't the place I'd advise someone to go to.

Twitter "used" to be a great place to make connections with colleagues. Especially for someone like me that lives outside of the tech bubbles in SF/LA and NYC. Now I spend very little time on it due to it just being a toxic mess day in and day out. I'm a special case because I cover games and also picked up the mantle of a website with a not so great history, but even so, a lot of prominent voices in the games media are very hostile towards anyone they do not know, no matter the amount of experience you have.

And that started long before I became EIC here. Can't tell you how many times we would break a story on OnlySP to only have it lifted by a bigger website than us, who then I'd have to track down and make sure they gave us the credit for it. Every small website owner has those stories.

So while Houseman might think I need to pick a battle, I and others really don't. It's up to the readerships to decide what they want from games coverage and who they want to get it from. I don't have time to go bicker at people on social media, so I just focus on doing my job and helping to make good content.