Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

Who will win the election?

  • SleepyJoe

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • It doesn't matter who wins, because we will all lose in some way.

    Votes: 26 52.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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lil devils x

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Well the first one looks like from a comedy show or some other show or something rather than a picture from real life and the 2nd one is Daryl Davis who has helped people quit the KKK and that's him with some-one he's likely helped quit.

So not the best way to try and prove an example with a TV show and a guy helping people quit the KKK lol.



I said 20 points ahead I showed 20 points ahead. You can take your range and use it to rearrange yourself lol. The claim was there that I said.
It actually IS the best way, read the Christian Monitor article to get the point. The entire point is " showing a black posterchild and saying that somehow means this group isn't racist" is BS, and a terribly ignorant way to discuss the issue. The point is even if they allow in other races, their actions and rhetoric show us otherwise. You showed a photo like that somehow means everything else they have said and done doesn't matter.

That is like saying ANY woman can replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if she stands for everything Ruth was against. Just being a woman, black, Native American ect proves NOTHING. Actions, words, policies actually matter.
 
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tippy2k2

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Have you looked at Biden's actual health plan? Looks great right now and is EXACTLY what we need to shift to a M4A system. Biden doesn't have to call it Medicare for all light for it to be good. Have you looked at Biden's actual infrastructure and environmental plan? How he is blocking the GOP subsidies to fossil fuels and reinstating all the protections Trump has removed? Biden supports Biden's plan, doesn't mean Biden's plan is bad. Biden's plans look a hell of a lot better than Trump's plan. Biden's plan has a lot of what is in Bernie's plan as well. Not calling it a certain name does not mean it is bad.

Just looking at the plans yourself and comparing them between the two candidates isn't asking too much.
Yes I have and we've talked about this in previous threads and I've brought up why I think it's going to not work (the TLDR line being that Biden just keeps wanting to build on the sandy trash foundation of Obamacare rather than realizing it's trash and how no one will flock to it because it offers worse insurance than what people would get from their employers so it'll never get this magical power of negotiation from everyone flocking to it since no one will do that).

Ultimately though, you want my bottom line here Biden (I of course am assuming Joe Biden is constantly refreshing Current Events on The Escapist Dot Com to keep his pulse on The Will of The People)? I'm not happy about you being the choice. In fact, I am very unhappy with you being the choice. Had you won the Primaries fair and square instead of having The DNC ratfucking over every single candidate that actually embraced things I want, I'd be more inclined to bite the bullet and vote for you but what's done is done, you can't change the past.

But you know what would help me be willing to swallow this shit-based medicine that you want me to so that we can cure the disease that is Trump? If every time Biden opened his mouth, he didn't completely shit all over my ideals and desires from a candidate.
 
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lil devils x

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Yes I have and we've talked about this in previous threads and I've brought up why I think it's going to not work (the TLDR line being that Biden just keeps wanting to build on the sandy trash foundation of Obamacare rather than realizing it's trash and how no one will flock to it because it offers worse insurance than what people would get from their employers so it'll never get this magical power of negotiation from everyone flocking to it since no one will do that).

Ultimately though, you want my bottom line here Biden (I of course am assuming Joe Biden is constantly refreshing Current Events on The Escapist Dot Com to keep his pulse on The Will of The People)? I'm not happy about you being the choice. In fact, I am very unhappy with you being the choice. Had you won the Primaries fair and square instead of having The DNC ratfucking over every single candidate that actually embraced things I want, I'd be more inclined to bite the bullet and vote for you but what's done is done, you can't change the pass.

But you know what would help me be willing to swallow this shit-based medicine that you want me to so that we can cure the disease that is Trump? If every time you opened your mouth, you didn't completely shit all over my ideals and desires from a candidate.
Biden is solving the " worse insurance than employers" option this under his shifting to the gold plan, it is currently based on silver. He is also adding the public option to shift people over to public insurance. You call it trash, I HAVE AN OBAMACARE PLAN BTW. I have preexisting conditions so that is the best insurance I can afford as well, Without Obamacare, my insurance payment will be over $2000 a month. The ACA isn't a trash plan, it just needs to be fixed, and this is a great way to do so while laying the foundation we need to shift more to M4A, the SAME WAY this worked for Germany to do so.

Those of us with serious health conditions, we cannot survive even a brief period without Obamacare as we will actually die waiting for something better. Trump's current plan is for us to just die waiting. There are no other options once we lose our "Obamacare". I have no savings to fall back on, that was spent to save my parents farm. I exhausted that before I had to sell my home. I don't even have anything to show for doing that as well as that too was spent to save my parents farm that my own family built with their own hands, so I am in just of a bind as the rest of us here now. The farm is in my mother's name so I could not even use that to get a loan to try and survive, as that belongs to my Mom, not me.. We have no options for getting M4A passed with the current congress. AT best, we can hope Biden passes this, and then we are able to shift to that in the next decade, but the reality is I do not think progressives have flipped enough districts yet. You have to keep in mind that conservatives STILL hold the majority of districts. We have to flip those too in order to pass it. Including some of these districts with these people arming themselves at any hint of progressive agenda willing to go to war over it, as I posted in the other thread. It isn't going to be an easy fight now matter how we look at it right now. Just trying to get the courts to allow after GOP stacked them it is a whole other hurdle after we pass anything as well now. Taking what we can now so that I , and others like me ,don't die due to the oppositions plan is still a huge improvement over what happens without it. I really don't want to die because people thought " this wasn't good enough"., because you know, I really want to live too. I am not exaggerating, I will literally die within a few hours without my breathing meds. I cannot afford my breathing meds without Obamacare either.

I donated to Bernie, I supported him and did what he asked in the primaries and am doing what he asks of me now and even Bernie says it is irresponsible not to support Biden:

"Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that it would be “irresponsible” for his loyalists not to support Joe Biden, warning that progressives who “sit on their hands” in the months ahead would simply enable President Donald Trump’s reelection."


I have never " shit over your ideals of a candidate", as they are mine as well. If you ever took anything I said as that, you misunderstood or mistook what I had said, because Geeze, I think I may even be farther left than you are. Medicare for all isn't enough as far as I am concerned. I want to RAISE QUALITY STANRDS to much higher than Medicare for all offers. I think everyone should have access to the same quality of medical treatment the wealthy have. I want EVERYONE to have access to that quality, Bernie's plan doesn't actually do that. I see that the wealthy in the US actually have enough wealth that they can do that and so much more. This is the wealthiest nation in the world, it is time they start acting like it.

I also want to have us eliminate homelessness and not by building more ghettos, but though giving the poor access to middle class housing and have the wealthy pay for that too. I want a minimum standard of living as a right. I in no way think you are wrong about wanting more out of candidates, I agree with your ideals, Mine may actually be even more demanding. That doesn't mean I just let everything get even worse though than it has to be. Biden wasn't who I wanted to win the primaries either, but that doesn't mean I suicide and kill myself and others over it by letting Trump win by doing nothing. I'm sorry if I ever came across as thinking you were wrong for wanting more in a candidate, that was never my intention. Saying I feel strongly about this is an understatement though, for me, this election is literally is matter of life and death. From my perspective, people saying "it doesn't matter if trump wins" is telling me " It doesn't matter if you die". To me, it very much does.
 
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stroopwafel

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It actually IS the best way, read the Christian Monitor article to get the point. The entire point is " showing a black posterchild and saying that somehow means this group isn't racist" is BS, and a terribly ignorant way to discuss the issue. The point is even if they allow in other races, their actions and rhetoric show us otherwise. You showed a photo like that somehow means everything else they have said and done doesn't matter.

That is like saying ANY woman can replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if she stands for everything Ruth was against. Just being a woman, black, Native American ect proves NOTHING. Actions, words, policies actually matter.
To be honest this is a direct consequence of the identity politics card the Left has indoctrinated media discourse with by dividing people through gross generalizations under the guise of 'political correctness'. It's actually quite hilarious that they have now fallen in their own sword.
 

tippy2k2

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I have never " shit over your ideals of a candidate", as they are mine as well.
I'm going to update my other post to make it more clear but when I said that part, I was still "talking to Biden", not saying you were the one doing it. There are not a lot of VBNMW people I have all that much respect for but you are one of them (and not a small part of me reconsidering my choice to tell Biden to go sit and spin).

So to be clear, I wasn't saying you were the one who shits on my ideals and desires, I was saying Biden is the one who seems to shit on my ideals and desires every time he opens his mouth.
 
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Schadrach

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That is exactly what I said, but getting Trump to agree to allow them to mute him will prove difficult. He has to also agree to the terms of the debate for there to be a debate.
True, but apparently each of them was supposed to get a set amount of time to speak uninterrupted for each question before mutual discussion. It wouldn't be unreasonable to mute the other person for that time.
 

lil devils x

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To be honest this is a direct consequence of the identity politics card the Left has indoctrinated media discourse with by dividing people through gross generalizations under the guise of 'political correctness'. It's actually quite hilarious that they have now fallen in their own sword.
That perspective is just a misunderstanding of the actual problem. Systemic racism denial is primarily a result of ignorance and misunderstanding of the actual issue. For some reason people think " because this exists, means this other thing doesn't" and that is just false. People can want both systemic racism addressed and want to help reduce other crime and issues in their own communities as well. It is like someone saying something stupid like "because Black lives Matter is wanting police violence against the black community addressed means they are ignoring black on black crime". It doesn't and it is ignorant to suggest such. Wanting one thing addressed doesn't mean they are not also concerned about another and are addressing it in another way. It isn't an " either/or" position.

The right uses identity politics, and " not as a response" ,and has existed since long before the civil war. " Christian family values" = identity politics, " law and order" = identity politics. You forget about the identity politics propaganda the south put out to keep slaves from being free? To keep women from voting? To deny people welfare? This is nothing new, in fact, it is very very old and the " left" didn't even start it. Trying to fix what was broken and rebalance the wealth inequality and address the numerous reasons for it isn't some bad thing here. It is what is actually necessary to keep our society from collapsing all together. Crying" identity politics" is just trying to avoid doing anything about these problems at all, all the while promoting their own " identity politics" worrying about " OMG if the brown people get same rights and wealth white culture ceases to exist". It is has always been BS.

 
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lil devils x

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True, but apparently each of them was supposed to get a set amount of time to speak uninterrupted for each question before mutual discussion. It wouldn't be unreasonable to mute the other person for that time.
I agree, but Trump sees himself above everyone else and does not think any rules apply to him at all.
 

Avnger

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To be honest this is a direct consequence of the identity politics card the Left has indoctrinated media discourse with by dividing people through gross generalizations under the guise of 'political correctness'. It's actually quite hilarious that they have now fallen in their own sword.
Only if you take a simpleton's view of the matter. Things aren't black OR white, good OR bad. Generalizations make sense when talking about vast systems (eg: The US justice system or cultural problems) because there isn't any other way to handle things at that macro scale. However, generalizations can also be less than useful when the scale is an individual or other micro entity. It's why the statements "white privilege exists" and "Johnny the poor Irish-American living in remote Appalachia is less privileged than Jimmy the rich African-American living in Orange County" aren't contradictory.
 

Agema

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True, but apparently each of them was supposed to get a set amount of time to speak uninterrupted for each question before mutual discussion. It wouldn't be unreasonable to mute the other person for that time.
The assumption has always been that each would generally let the other speak. I'm surprised no-one thought Trump might not follow that convention.

There is however a problem. If Trump did get his mic muted, it would be signified as the lamestream media cheating. The answer is to make it a rule before the debate starts: either mute the mics when it's not the turn, or give them a "three strikes and you're out" rule on interruptions. The former is cleaner and easier.

On the other hand, seeing as Trump is seven points down and seems to have got nowhere with these tactics, Biden's team might be happy enough to let him carry on doing it and achieving nothing.
 

stroopwafel

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That perspective is just a misunderstanding of the actual problem. Systemic racism denial is primarily a result of ignorance and misunderstanding of the actual issue. For some reason people think " because this exists, means this other thing doesn't" and that is just false. People can want both systemic racism addressed and want to help reduce other crime and issues in their own communities as well. It is like someone saying something stupid like "because Black lives Matter is wanting police violence against the black community addressed means they are ignoring black on black crime". It doesn't and it is ignorant to suggest such. Wanting one thing addressed doesn't mean they are not also concerned about another and are addressing it in another way. It isn't an " either/or" position.

The right uses identity politics, and " not as a response" ,and has existed since long before the civil war. " Christian family values" = identity politics, " law and order" = identity politics. You forget about the identity politics propaganda the south put out to keep slaves from being free? To keep women from voting? To deny people welfare? This is nothing new, in fact, it is very very old and the " left" didn't even start it. Trying to fix what was broken and rebalance the wealth inequality and address the numerous reasons for it isn't some bad thing here. It is what is actually necessary to keep our society from collapsing all together. Crying" identity politics" is just trying to avoid doing anything about these problems at all, all the while promoting their own " identity politics" worrying about " OMG if the brown people get same rights and wealth white culture ceases to exist". It is has always been BS.

You can't take historic events and beliefs of a certain era as somehow identity politics of the right. No one on the right wants to reinstate slavery or abolish women's voting rights. You are just trying to create a false sentiment here. The left has been beating the identity politics drum for years now both with gender and race(and a strange predilection with sexual orientation) and shaped the political climate of the times. This time not the time of slavery from a few centuries ago. Both (social) media, commercial companies and the complacent masses play their tune. They fabricated this leftist culture of 'wokeness' that now bites them in their ass. The right seems much more like an amalgamation to me. You have libertarians, conservatives, christians but none of them force their beliefs on others like the left do. It is the left that wants to brainwash people with ludicrous media campaigns by blaming others for their own deficiencies. The right has merely drawn a line in the sand. You give a good example how ''law and order'' has been politicized by the left. Who is against mitigating violent crime and keeping neighbourhoods safe? In your view it's a progrom against black people but you forget they suffered the most under Clinton's '3 strikes' law that locked them up for life over minor offenses.
 
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Dalisclock

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It actually IS the best way, read the Christian Monitor article to get the point. The entire point is " showing a black posterchild and saying that somehow means this group isn't racist" is BS, and a terribly ignorant way to discuss the issue. The point is even if they allow in other races, their actions and rhetoric show us otherwise. You showed a photo like that somehow means everything else they have said and done doesn't matter.

That is like saying ANY woman can replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if she stands for everything Ruth was against. Just being a woman, black, Native American ect proves NOTHING. Actions, words, policies actually matter.
I'm pretty sure this is called "I can't be racist! I have a Black Friend!" Defense.
 
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ObsidianJones

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The assumption has always been that each would generally let the other speak. I'm surprised no-one thought Trump might not follow that convention.

There is however a problem. If Trump did get his mic muted, it would be signified as the lamestream media cheating. The answer is to make it a rule before the debate starts: either mute the mics when it's not the turn, or give them a "three strikes and you're out" rule on interruptions. The former is cleaner and easier.

On the other hand, seeing as Trump is seven points down and seems to have got nowhere with these tactics, Biden's team might be happy enough to let him carry on doing it and achieving nothing.
It doesn't have to be.

Literally, all you have to do is say "You have three minutes to reply, the other candidate will be muted for that three minutes. And after both parties get to have their time to answer the question solo, you both will have three minutes to counter."

Biden can get his thoughts out, and then tell Trump to shut up when he's acting like Trump.
 
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Agema

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To be honest this is a direct consequence of the identity politics card the Left has indoctrinated media discourse with by dividing people through gross generalizations under the guise of 'political correctness'. It's actually quite hilarious that they have now fallen in their own sword.
Identity politics isn't so much a card as the result of a system that doesn't produce the equality it espouses and has nominally enacted.

In the old days, you had a ruling class or demographic group, and everyone knew they ruled and that was the end of that. Now we're all theoretically equal, obviously people are going to ask awkward questions about and demand policies to correct why we aren't in practice. Obviously this is very annoying for the most advantaged class.
 

stroopwafel

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Identity politics isn't so much a card as the result of a system that doesn't produce the equality it espouses and has nominally enacted.

In the old days, you had a ruling class or demographic group, and everyone knew they ruled and that was the end of that. Now we're all theoretically equal, obviously people are going to ask awkward questions about and demand policies to correct why we aren't in practice. Obviously this is very annoying for the most advantaged class.
Yeah, but you make it sound like the ones graduated in Lesbian Dance aren't the advantaged class nowadays. They are omnipresent in (social) media, government and run entire marketing/PR/HR of big corporations. Their message is the most dominant.
 

Dalisclock

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The assumption has always been that each would generally let the other speak. I'm surprised no-one thought Trump might not follow that convention.

There is however a problem. If Trump did get his mic muted, it would be signified as the lamestream media cheating. The answer is to make it a rule before the debate starts: either mute the mics when it's not the turn, or give them a "three strikes and you're out" rule on interruptions. The former is cleaner and easier.

On the other hand, seeing as Trump is seven points down and seems to have got nowhere with these tactics, Biden's team might be happy enough to let him carry on doing it and achieving nothing.
Letting trump repeatedly blow himself up seems to be working so far. Hell, at the debate, All biden had to do was refrain from giving the man a well deserved sock to the jaw and he comes across as looking better by default. Then again, even a mediocre adult comes across better than a screaming toddler, so there's that.

Don't worry, I'm sure we'll here in a second how all those polls are wrong and Trump is secretly blowing Biden out of the water, which is why Trump keeps screaming about the election being rigged(Something he wouldn't be doing if he were winning).
 

Dalisclock

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I said 20 points ahead I showed 20 points ahead. You can take your range and use it to rearrange yourself lol. The claim was there that I said.
And here's a bunch of Data from 2016 showing that the two were running pretty close to the margin of error for much fo the campaign when the polls were averaged out. Even some rather big outliers didn't change that much. Not to mention Trump won by some tinyass margins in 3 swing states while sill having 3 million more people vote for Hillary.


But if your aunt said something about lying to pollsters, well, I guess data doesn't mean anything.
 
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Schadrach

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Well the first one looks like from a comedy show or some other show or something rather than a picture from real life
Literally a Dave Chapelle skit. A big part of the joke is that he's also blind and doesn't know he's black (and neither do most of the KKK members, because of the hoods). Not my favorite Dave Chapelle skit, but that's more a matter of taste.

the 2nd one is Daryl Davis who has helped people quit the KKK and that's him with some-one he's likely helped quit.
He's really quite impressive at that, and in one talk claimed that when they leave they often offer him their robes and he's got a collection.

The entire point is " showing a black posterchild and saying that somehow means this group isn't racist" is BS, and a terribly ignorant way to discuss the issue.
...except he wasn't showing a black poster child, he was showing the example image of the group presented by the Anti-Defamation League. They aren't painting themselves as having black members, the people calling them a dangerous hate group and supplying an example photo of them is showing them that way.
 
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Schadrach

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You call it trash, I HAVE AN OBAMACARE PLAN BTW.
I had one for 10 months. So from when Obamacare was passed till 2019, my employer's insurance got drastically more expensive and worse coverage with both the employer and insurer blaming the rate increases and worsening coverage on the ACA. For 2019, we had dropped below the magic number of employees to have insurance be mandatory and been presented a 30% rate hike so my employer dropped health insurance and told us how to get on the Marketplace. The cheapest silver plan I could find was $250/m after credit (which was more than I had been paying for a company plan in 2018). My wife was on a similar plan for $100/m after credit. She got a job with the state, and we moved up the wedding so I could be put on her new insurance which is both great coverage and super cheap. My employer brought back insurance for this year, but it's silver-equivalent and so expensive that some of the guys are just getting self+spouse and putting their kids on CHIP.

Oh, and I have a preexisting condition, diagnosed at 12. Actually filled my prescriptions earlier this week, meds would have been $3500 at full retail price for a 3 month supply, but after insurance and discount cards I only paid $65 out of pocket - again, awesome insurance.

Worth pointing out to everyone generally - if you're on any kind of meds, look into whether or not the manufacturer has any kind of copay discount card available - for one of my meds it limits the copay to $25 per month, $50/3 months. For the other it's $5/$15, max $100 discount/month. They are put out by the manufacturer of the drug, and they discount your copay and are fabulous if you are on any drugs that don't have a generic.
 

lil devils x

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You can't take historic events and beliefs of a certain era as somehow identity politics of the right. No one on the right wants to reinstate slavery or abolish women's voting rights. You are just trying to create a false sentiment here. The left has been beating the identity politics drum for years now both with gender and race(and a strange predilection with sexual orientation) and shaped the political climate of the times. This time not the time of slavery from a few centuries ago. Both (social) media, commercial companies and the complacent masses play their tune. They fabricated this leftist culture of 'wokeness' that now bites them in their ass. The right seems much more like an amalgamation to me. You have libertarians, conservatives, christians but none of them force their beliefs on others like the left do. It is the left that wants to brainwash people with ludicrous media campaigns by blaming others for their own deficiencies. The right has merely drawn a line in the sand. You give a good example how ''law and order'' has been politicized by the left. Who is against mitigating violent crime and keeping neighbourhoods safe? In your view it's a progrom against black people but you forget they suffered the most under Clinton's '3 strikes' law that locked them up for life over minor offenses.
No, you actually can. It is just KKK light, which still doesn't make it okay. THIS has been a continual event, not some isolated response, it NEVER ENDED. We had the civil war, then JIm crow laws, segregation, we had the whole rise of the KKK in the 1920's and Nazi supporters throughout WW2, then we had "The Christian Family values" of the 1950's-present day. Life didn't exist in a vacuum here. Why do you think we had the civil rights movement in the 60's? Reagan was racist. This BS NEVER ENDED. We don't exist in a vacuum here. Pretending like this is some how different is a load of crap.

Did you just say no one forces their beliefs on other like the left does?! I was literally forced BY the US government to go to a forced assimilation Christian school where they raped and abused hundreds of kids, TIED ME TO A CHAIR and made me read from the bible aloud to " get the devil" out of me and you are trying to tell me the left is somehow worse? You would have to erase the entire history of Christians in the US to even fathom this idea. People somehow think this stopped. It didn't. John McCain stopped my school, but how many more are still out there?! You are talking out of your arse here to pretend this isn't a problem. They "say" the last Christian torture "boarding school" closed in 1973, instead they just changed how they did it and no longer called them boarding schools. They just took kids to " Day schools" instead but these Christian torturers and abusers just went to work there instead and continued to do it anyways. Then they literally kidnapped children and put them into force assimilation Christian families where they indoctrinated them against their will. Don't try to tell me, who had to endure this first hand, that they don't try to " force" their beliefs onto others, because that is a blatant lie. They have done so worse than any other group in our entire history. Legalizing abortion Isn;t forcing YOU to get an abortion. The left doesn't add Moses to the history taught about the founding fathers, or teach bible study in public schools. Christians do all of that however.

Clintons" 3 strike rule" btw was conservative and enforced and approved by conservatives. Conservatives are who think it was weak and not strong enough BTW and pardon those who torture prisoners. We have both republicans and democrats who are conservatives btw, just because they have a (D) next to their name does not mean they are a liberal.
 
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