Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

Who will win the election?

  • SleepyJoe

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • It doesn't matter who wins, because we will all lose in some way.

    Votes: 26 52.0%

  • Total voters
    50
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lil devils x

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...except he wasn't showing a black poster child, he was showing the example image of the group presented by the Anti-Defamation League. They aren't painting themselves as having black members, the people calling them a dangerous hate group and supplying an example photo of them is showing them that way.
I wasn't aware Dwarvenhobble was Anti-Defamation League , I was specifically addressing how he was using the photo IN THIS THREAD. Where the photo comes from is irrelevant to what was being discussed. It is no different than that woman who was trying to force other women to burkas. The Christian Monitor Article attached was making the point.
 
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lil devils x

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I had one for 10 months. So from when Obamacare was passed till 2019, my employer's insurance got drastically more expensive and worse coverage with both the employer and insurer blaming the rate increases and worsening coverage on the ACA. For 2019, we had dropped below the magic number of employees to have insurance be mandatory and been presented a 30% rate hike so my employer dropped health insurance and told us how to get on the Marketplace. The cheapest silver plan I could find was $250/m after credit (which was more than I had been paying for a company plan in 2018). My wife was on a similar plan for $100/m after credit. She got a job with the state, and we moved up the wedding so I could be put on her new insurance which is both great coverage and super cheap. My employer brought back insurance for this year, but it's silver-equivalent and so expensive that some of the guys are just getting self+spouse and putting their kids on CHIP.

Oh, and I have a preexisting condition, diagnosed at 12. Actually filled my prescriptions earlier this week, meds would have been $3500 at full retail price for a 3 month supply, but after insurance and discount cards I only paid $65 out of pocket - again, awesome insurance.

Worth pointing out to everyone generally - if you're on any kind of meds, look into whether or not the manufacturer has any kind of copay discount card available - for one of my meds it limits the copay to $25 per month, $50/3 months. For the other it's $5/$15, max $100 discount/month. They are put out by the manufacturer of the drug, and they discount your copay and are fabulous if you are on any drugs that don't have a generic.
I have a gold Obamacare plan and that is what Biden is basing his " fix" on here. They should have done so from the beginning, but late is better than never. Silver was still greatly lacking. It may surprise you, but most working in healthcare in the US do not actually receive employer provided insurance, as it is still ridiculously expensive for the small group plans for individual clinics and private practice offices, so they don't even offer it. We have AMA insurance options, but it is still more expensive than plans on the healthcare exchange. Your wife having a job with the state is good insurance and what we should really offer as " the public option". I actually wanted that rather than Medicare for all, as the government insurance is better than most options out there. That was why I said that they should make all of congress use the same healthcare plan they make the people use and all of this would be solved immediately.

The manufacturer discount on my medication only applies to insured patients, so when I had a gap, they told me my discount would not even apply and you have to pay full price. I learned very quickly I cannot afford to have even a month's gap due to how expensive my medications are and I didn't even have to fill them all during that month. Working in medicine myself, I know all about the manufacturer coupons, I use it WITH my insurance or it would still be too expensive.
 

tstorm823

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That perspective is just a misunderstanding of the actual problem. Systemic racism denial is primarily a result of ignorance and misunderstanding of the actual issue. For some reason people think " because this exists, means this other thing doesn't" and that is just false. People can want both systemic racism addressed and want to help reduce other crime and issues in their own communities as well. It is like someone saying something stupid like "because Black lives Matter is wanting police violence against the black community addressed means they are ignoring black on black crime". It doesn't and it is ignorant to suggest such. Wanting one thing addressed doesn't mean they are not also concerned about another and are addressing it in another way. It isn't an " either/or" position.
But this is where the critical race theory nonsense comes in. It really is only taking a single perspective. I wouldn't go so far as to say critical race theory denies non-systemic problems, but it factually ignores them. Someone like you may be acknowledging multiple issues at once, but you know as well as I do that there are people who want to address police violence by getting rid of the police and their perspective on crime is that the people committing murders aren't in power so who cares. They treat any interpersonal crime as somehow a symptom of the system and therefore not worth addressing individually. There are people protesting against the police and ignoring black on black crime, because they subscribe to an ideology that doesn't believe you can be evil without power.
 

Dalisclock

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Is Chris Wallace getting his ass chewed out by Fox News for not being "fair" to Donald?
Apparently Tucker Carlson was beating up on him on his show. I'll have to take the internets word for it because listening to Tucker Carlson is one step on the pain scale below Listening to Donald, which is already pretty awful.

I'm not sure how Wallace could have given him anymore leeway then he did without giving him a blowie on stage, but Hannity and Carleson have first dibs on sucking off the Donald on a given day.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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And here's a bunch of Data from 2016 showing that the two were running pretty close to the margin of error for much fo the campaign when the polls were averaged out. Even some rather big outliers didn't change that much. Not to mention Trump won by some tinyass margins in 3 swing states while sill having 3 million more people vote for Hillary.


But if your aunt said something about lying to pollsters, well, I guess data doesn't mean anything.
And my point was in the past there were claims of Hillary being 20 points or more ahead by around this point or before and that is a larger margin than Biden has been reported as having at any point.

So it's pointless going "Oh Biden is 7 points ahead now so he is on track to win". Maybe if it were 1 month until the election the polls would be worth bringing up but we're not.


It actually IS the best way, read the Christian Monitor article to get the point. The entire point is " showing a black posterchild and saying that somehow means this group isn't racist" is BS, and a terribly ignorant way to discuss the issue. The point is even if they allow in other races, their actions and rhetoric show us otherwise. You showed a photo like that somehow means everything else they have said and done doesn't matter.

That is like saying ANY woman can replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg even if she stands for everything Ruth was against. Just being a woman, black, Native American ect proves NOTHING. Actions, words, policies actually matter.
That kind of only works when the group has been proved to be racists and white supremacists anyway.

So far I've seen little to no evidence of The Proud Boys being White supremacists and it seems more the phrase is just being thrown round in the hopes of a knee jerk gut reaction without people stopping to ask. I've seen evidence of them being violent and causing trouble but most of the "Proud boys attack people" videos I've seen have been against Whiter than white AntiFA members.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I wasn't aware Dwarvenhobble was Anti-Defamation League , I was specifically addressing how he was using the photo IN THIS THREAD. Where the photo comes from is irrelevant to what was being discussed. It is no different than that woman who was trying to force other women to burkas. The Christian Monitor Article attached was making the point.
I'm not. The photo's original source is the ADL.

Is Chris Wallace getting his ass chewed out by Fox News for not being "fair" to Donald?
He's getting chewed out by both sides.

I think Fox news are pissed at the supposed bias in the questions asked to Trump vs to Biden.
 

lil devils x

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And my point was in the past there were claims of Hillary being 20 points or more ahead by around this point or before and that is a larger margin than Biden has been reported as having at any point.

So it's pointless going "Oh Biden is 7 points ahead now so he is on track to win". Maybe if it were 1 month until the election the polls would be worth bringing up but we're not.



That kind of only works when the group has been proved to be racists and white supremacists anyway.

So far I've seen little to no evidence of The Proud Boys being White supremacists and it seems more the phrase is just being thrown round in the hopes of a knee jerk gut reaction without people stopping to ask. I've seen evidence of them being violent and causing trouble but most of the "Proud boys attack people" videos I've seen have been against Whiter than white AntiFA members.
They have been. I already posted that above. It isn't a knee jerk reaction to call racist BS racist. You forget about the whole "why I hate Jews" BS? Defending Holocausts deniers BS? Working with and defending white nationalists? Then what their members have said on stormfront? Just to name a few..
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Don't lie to me. You claimed there was a "final" poll that showed Clinton 20 points up as evidence polls are wrong. There wasn't.
Highlighted the important contextual part of what I said.


1) Those were the final poll at about this stage last time Hillary was claimed to be up to 20 points clear or something,

2) National polls don't give the best indication of how the election will go when it's fought on states and in the present pandemic it's far easier still to collect data in cities than travel round in rural parts.

3) Biden hasn't really changed much in a lot of the battleground states or worse the rustbelt.
Don't try and gaslight me, I didn't say the final polls said Hillary was 20 points ahead.
 

Dalisclock

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And my point was in the past there were claims of Hillary being 20 points or more ahead by around this point or before and that is a larger margin than Biden has been reported as having at any point.

So it's pointless going "Oh Biden is 7 points ahead now so he is on track to win". Maybe if it were 1 month until the election the polls would be worth bringing up but we're not.
And my point is that Biden is leading by a larger margin more consistantly and the 20 point thing was an outlier you're wierdly obsessed with, like somehow that proves something.

Trends matter, not individual data points. That's how science works.

Fuck, I haven't even mentioned the whole money problem. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/us/politics/trump-election-campaign-fundraising.html

Not to mention this and this.


An average of 7 points down, running out of cash and running out of time(33 days). Trump is not in a good spot right now and early voting has already started in 20 states.



Turnout is gonna be MASSIVE this year. I'd argume that's not a good omen for Trump and the GOP.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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They have been. I already posted that above. It isn't a knee jerk reaction to call racist BS racist. You forget about the whole why I hate Jews BS? Defending Holocausts deniers BS? Working with and defending white nationalists? Then what their members have said on stormfront? Just to name a few..
Again I've seen Proud Boys attacking AntiFA mostly.

Hell I've seen Black protestors object to Black Live Matter protests claiming they'd been overtaken and were just pushing points beyond just talking about Black Lives and issues round them.

I've not heard anything about Proud Boys on Stromfront (I tend not to know or really want to know what goes on in private neonazi forums). For all I know this could be just like when they claimed to be big PewDiePie supporters, then big Wall Street Journal fans. They're opportunistic parasites.

I've heard lots of claims about The Proud Boys but little of it seemingly being played out.
Defending Holocausts deniers BS?
Well in the UK old Commie Corbyn the former leader of the UK centre Left (which he was pushing more towards far left) has done that so it's not exclusive to the right.

Hell it can just be defended as a frees speech issue because that means defending things you don't agree with on principal of people being allowed to say them.

I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll die defending your right to say it and show as many people what a fool you are on as big a stage as possible
- Stephen Fry
 

Dwarvenhobble

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And my point is that Biden is leading by a larger margin more consistantly and the 20 point thing was an outlier you're wierdly obsessed with, like somehow that proves something.

Trends matter, not individual data points. That's how science works.

Fuck, I haven't even mentioned the whole money problem. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/us/politics/trump-election-campaign-fundraising.html

Not to mention this and this.


An average of 7 points down, running out of cash and running out of time(33 days). Trump is not in a good spot right now and early voting has already started in 20 states.



Turnout is gonna be MASSIVE this year. I'd argume that's not a good omen for Trump and the GOP.
Um didn't Trump win like

$350M vs $1.1B last time?

Turnout will be massive this year?

Why?

Trump was portrayed as a monster and imminent threat in 2016. He's had 4 years and done little if any of the threatened harms. it's like going "Oh but this time he'll do it this time he'll set up the gas chambers if you don't vote" if he didn't do it the first time you'd have to be pretty gullible or have a short memory to forget the past ~4 years and how it hasn't happened yet to think suddenly it will.

Only difference really is those hating Trump because "It WAS HER TURN" have gotten angrier and more vocal
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Clintons" 3 strike rule" btw was conservative and enforced and approved by conservatives. Conservatives are who think it was weak and not strong enough BTW and pardon those who torture prisoners. We have both republicans and democrats who are conservatives btw, just because they have a (D) next to their name does not mean they are a liberal.
In your view it's a progrom against black people but you forget they suffered the most under Clinton's '3 strikes' law that locked them up for life over minor offenses.
I wish people would get off of the 3 strikes law, it was supported by a lot of people, both black leaders, conservatives, and liberals. Everyone seems to forget that crime was really high in the early 90s so everyone felt something needed to be done and on the surface the 3 strikes law looks good. If you have someone who gets convicted of breaking the law multiple times it implies that person is just a criminal who can't be rehabilitated, but when they made it they weren't thinking about the drug war, they weren't thinking about how the system almost incentives people to return to crime, they were just thinking reduction of crime.
 
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lil devils x

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I wish people would get off of the 3 strikes law, it was supported by a lot of people, both black leaders, conservatives, and liberals. Everyone seems to forget that crime was really high in the early 90s so everyone felt something needed to be done and on the surface the 3 strikes law looks good. If you have someone who gets convicted of breaking the law multiple times it implies that person is just a criminal who can't be rehabilitated, but when they made it they weren't thinking about the drug war, they weren't thinking about how the system almost incentives people to return to crime, they were just thinking reduction of crime.
I am not sure about liberals.. Moderates and conservatives, yes, but not everyone who was a moderate and coderivative back then is STILL a conservative or moderate now. People change, most of those affected by the 3 strike rule were drug offenses, and I do think some of them supporting the war on drugs WERE thinking about that specifically. The US not focusing on rehabilitation at all is why people aren't rehabilitated in the US. Here in Texas I know it was promoted for the war on drugs, as many here STILL think the war on drugs is great and needs to continue..
 

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My understanding is that neither right or left think he did a good job a mediator.
The problem is that Wallace was undermined from the beginning.

From 2016, Trump has turned sentiment that the Media will never give him a fair shake. Given how his cult completely laps up what he says, that seed was planted by him and tilled by their own actions.

Then we find actual missteps in Media.

So, if Wallace did the proper thing and tell Trump to shut up every five seconds because Trump was talking every five seconds, that Tree of Distrust would have born fruit, having his loyalists say "DO YOU SEE HOW THE MEDIA WON'T EVEN LET HIM TALK?!?! WE'RE NEVER GOING TO GET A FAIR REPRESENTATION!! DAMN YOU BEZOS!!!"

I'm sure Wallace was aware of that. But, again, Donald acted like a elementary school smart ass, and the teacher didn't control him. So the half of the class that doesn't go along with his antics just think the teacher is incompetent. And the half of the class that thinks him being stupid is fun loves the fact that he can't be controlled.

Two analogies, but I'm still going to rock with it.
 

lil devils x

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Again I've seen Proud Boys attacking AntiFA mostly.

Hell I've seen Black protestors object to Black Live Matter protests claiming they'd been overtaken and were just pushing points beyond just talking about Black Lives and issues round them.

I've not heard anything about Proud Boys on Stromfront (I tend not to know or really want to know what goes on in private neonazi forums). For all I know this could be just like when they claimed to be big PewDiePie supporters, then big Wall Street Journal fans. They're opportunistic parasites.

I've heard lots of claims about The Proud Boys but little of it seemingly being played out.

Well in the UK old Commie Corbyn the former leader of the UK centre Left (which he was pushing more towards far left) has done that so it's not exclusive to the right.

Hell it can just be defended as a frees speech issue because that means defending things you don't agree with on principal of people being allowed to say them.
You realize that many of Antifa are also Jews right? The same Jews proud boys like to rant about? Antifa was formed by and to protect Jews FROM the Nazis. They think it takes violence to fight violence so that is why they fight Nazis. I have no idea why people do not know this. They have been around since Nazis came around as a response TO them.

"When Italian dictator Benito Mussolini consolidated power under his National Fascist Party in the mid-1920s, an oppositional anti-fascist movement surfaced both in Italy and countries such as the United States. Many anti-fascist leaders in the United States were anarchist, socialist and syndicalist émigrés from Italy with experience in labor organizing and militancy.[77] Ideologically, antifa in the United States sees itself as the successor to anti-Nazi activists of the 1930s."


 
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