Biden v. Trump Election Mega Thread

[Buyetyen]

Only if we ignore what happened in those four years.

Which most people do.

 

[Shadyside]

Gonna vote early tomorrow. Pretty sure that my vote doesn't count much in Texas. This state needs about 2 more decades until it turns blue.

 

[lil devils x]

Gonna vote early tomorrow. Pretty sure that my vote doesn't count much in Texas. This state needs about 2 more decades until it turns blue.

TBH I think the best we an hope for is impacting local, state and congress if we are lucky at this point. Every inch forward though is STILL better than going backwards. If we are really lucky, we can help shift some of the electoral college.

 

[Kae]

TBH I think the best we an hope for is impacting local, state and congress if we are lucky at this point. Every inch forward though is STILL better than going backwards. If we are really lucky, we can help shift some of the electoral college.

The electoral college needs to be abolished, that shit's wack as hell, to the point where when it was first explained to me, as a foreigner, it made no damned sense at all, like seriously if it's a Democracy the only thing that makes sense is majority vote.

 

[Shadyside]

I'm just wondering if we are going to get an epic rap battle between joe and donald.

 

[meiam]

The electoral college needs to be abolished, that shit's wack as hell, to the point where when it was first explained to me, as a foreigner, it made no damned sense at all, like seriously if it's a Democracy the only thing that makes sense is majority vote.

To be fair (and being very generous) a lot of democracy don't have direct election, like UK/Canada where elected official chose the prime minister (they always pick their party leader) and in a lot of case the election winner will have far less than 50% of the votes but have 100% of the power, since most of them have a very weak 2nd chamber that barely do anything. And since very often the elected official aren't very representative you can have the person with less votes have more power.

Now, the EC is extra weird in that people do directly vote for someone, just not really, so yeah it garbage and need to be changed (but will never be).

 

[Trunkage]

To be fair (and being very generous) a lot of democracy don't have direct election, like UK/Canada where elected official chose the prime minister (they always pick their party leader) and in a lot of case the election winner will have far less than 50% of the votes but have 100% of the power, since most of them have a very weak 2nd chamber that barely do anything. And since very often the elected official aren't very representative you can have the person with less votes have more power.

Now, the EC is extra weird in that people do directly vote for someone, just not really, so yeah it garbage and need to be changed (but will never be).

The bigger problem is whole states going to one party instead just winning electorates.
And the two seats for each state thing in the senate.
And the only two viable parties
And the parties being way to similar.

 

[Kae]

To be fair (and being very generous) a lot of democracy don't have direct election, like UK/Canada where elected official chose the prime minister (they always pick their party leader) and in a lot of case the election winner will have far less than 50% of the votes but have 100% of the power, since most of them have a very weak 2nd chamber that barely do anything. And since very often the elected official aren't very representative you can have the person with less votes have more power.

Now, the EC is extra weird in that people do directly vote for someone, just not really, so yeah it garbage and need to be changed (but will never be).

Well I am an Anarchist, if it was up to me we'd get rid of the whole system and aim for world wide Anarchy, a world without leaders with a horizontal power-structure in which everyone is theoretically equal, that is the dream, but you know if people aren't ready for that, they should at least abolish that EC bullshit and allow Washington & Puerto Rico to vote, seriously this shit makes no sense at all, other than if we admit that capitalism is inherently corrupt and it's clearly designed to rob the people of their voice while granting them the illusion of choice.

 

[Dalisclock]

Looks like the debate has been canceled. They are only going to do the debate on the 22nd.

So we won't get to see Trump play interrupting cow on stage until the 22nd?

Boo!

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

To be fair (and being very generous) a lot of democracy don't have direct election, like UK/Canada where elected official chose the prime minister (they always pick their party leader) and in a lot of case the election winner will have far less than 50% of the votes but have 100% of the power, since most of them have a very weak 2nd chamber that barely do anything. And since very often the elected official aren't very representative you can have the person with less votes have more power.

Now, the EC is extra weird in that people do directly vote for someone, just not really, so yeah it garbage and need to be changed (but will never be).

In the UK though there's a lot more power to depose PMs and they have far less power to just do anything they want with a lot of stuff having to be voted on by parliament which means if they don't have a majority or put forward policies that aren't agree with then they will not get it passed at all.

Also other countries have more than 2 main parties.

The UK has technically 18 parties (or more) though some only field candidates in specific areas and some are silly entries who are technically parties but field about 1 candidate and their purpose is more to remind people not to take the election quite so seriously like for example the Elmo party.

The electoral college needs to be abolished, that shit's wack as hell, to the point where when it was first explained to me, as a foreigner, it made no damned sense at all, like seriously if it's a Democracy the only thing that makes sense is majority vote.

Mostly my understanding is it stops them being able to just vote to screw people over so easily.

E.G. lets say there was no electoral college then the majority power would be held by "Liberal costal elites" you know the people who dunk on "Flyover states" and consider middle America to be a bunch of stupid hick and rednecks who are the problem in America and are just too stupid to move to the coasts. Imagine giving people the power to not have to care about said people they regularly proclaim to hate? "Allowing dumping of radioactive waste in those flyover states? Sure why not whose gonna stop them? they can't out vote the costal elites." "Cutting all state aid and benefits to said states? Why not it's not like they can now have any influence over the election......... oh dear we're running out of food cause they were some of the main places that supplied the USA and the benefits and aid helped keep the food prices low....... oh well doesn't matter to the rich it's only the poor who would suffer now".

How much power some states get could be seen as a question but there is a reason for the system from what I can tell.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Mostly my understanding is it stops them being able to just vote to screw people over so easily.

E.G. lets say there was no electoral college then the majority power would be held by "Liberal costal elites" you know the people who dunk on "Flyover states" and consider middle America to be a bunch of stupid hick and rednecks who are the problem in America and are just too stupid to move to the coasts. Imagine giving people the power to not have to care about said people they regularly proclaim to hate? "Allowing dumping of radioactive waste in those flyover states? Sure why not whose gonna stop them? they can't out vote the costal elites." "Cutting all state aid and benefits to said states? Why not it's not like they can now have any influence over the election......... oh dear we're running out of food cause they were some of the main places that supplied the USA and the benefits and aid helped keep the food prices low....... oh well doesn't matter to the rich it's only the poor who would suffer now".

How much power some states get could be seen as a question but there is a reason for the system from what I can tell.

Until this millennium, it was normal for conservative politicians to win a popular vote.
Hell, given that I *live* in a flyover state, the common refrain is that the "liberal coastal elites" give too much of a damn about the environment, not that they'd dump radioactive waste all will-nilly about the place. It's the exact *opposite* problem that you pretend exists.

So why doesn't this argument work in reverse? Why is every elected nation body weighted against urban areas where half the population lives? I mean, I live in Montana, a state the size of Germany with 1.2% of the population. Why's my vote count more than somebody living in a city when I clearly have no idea how to run a major metropolitan area?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Until this millennium, it was normal for conservative politicians to win a popular vote.
Hell, given that I *live* in a flyover state, the common refrain is that the "liberal coastal elites" give too much of a damn about the environment, not that they'd dump radioactive waste all will-nilly about the place. It's the exact *opposite* problem that you pretend exists.

So why doesn't this argument work in reverse? Why is every elected nation body weighted against urban areas where half the population lives? I mean, I live in Montana, a state the size of Germany with 1.2% of the population. Why's my vote count more than somebody living in a city when I clearly have no idea how to run a major metropolitan area?

Because farming is still important to most countries as we can't create food with replicators yet it also serves as additional areas for industry and facilities that you wouldn't want right in the middle of heavily built up cities mostly and would want space around them.

Do people in major metropolitan areas have much of a clue how to work the land and farm?

 

[Trunkage]

Because farming is still important to most countries as we can't create food with replicators yet it also serves as additional areas for industry and facilities that you wouldn't want right in the middle of heavily built up cities mostly and would want space around them.

Do people in major metropolitan areas have much of a clue how to work the land and farm?

Great job not answering the questions.

No, they generally don't know how farms work

Farmers don't know how governments, cities, doctors, teachers, transport, the internet or anything else work. Why are farmers better than everyone else?

 

[Trunkage]

Also, why aren't the representatives for these farmers talking about farming? What they do do is Politically Correct Identity Poltics that shoves their way of life down our throat.

If you want a farming representative, fine. Talk about farming. That doesn't give you any right regulating how I live

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Great job not answering the questions.

No, they generally don't know how farms work

Farmers don't know how governments, cities, doctors, teachers, transport, the internet or anything else work. Why are farmers better than everyone else?

How was that not an answer again?

"Why don't people in urban cities get more voting power" because so far they've been shown to have plenty of them look like assholes who if they could would happily damn the people who help produce the food they rely on just because they disagree with them an think they're better than them?

Here's a question which would you survive without longer food or the internet?

 

[Trunkage]

How was that not an answer again?

"Why don't people in urban cities get more voting power" because so far they've been shown to have plenty of them look like assholes who if they could would happily damn the people who help produce the food they rely on just because they disagree with them an think they're better than them?

Here's a question which would you survive without longer food or the internet?

No. That's is not in any shape or form an acceptable answer. Here's what you said, 'we make food so why get to tell everyone else what to do,' Why are 2% of the population so tyrannical, because they are legit being worse than Trump

Why do farmers get to dictate how everyone else lives? If they cared about food that's what they would be talking about. They ARE NOT. They are telling everyone else how to live.

In NO SHAPE OR FORM is that acceptable. It's not acceptable for conservative, progressives, liberal, libertarians or any other job to be so tyrannical. With one expectation... politicians. And you can probably guess how bad I think that is. Farmers are as bad as politicians and it disgusts me

 

[Kae]

Mostly my understanding is it stops them being able to just vote to screw people over so easily.

E.G. lets say there was no electoral college then the majority power would be held by "Liberal costal elites" you know the people who dunk on "Flyover states" and consider middle America to be a bunch of stupid hick and rednecks who are the problem in America and are just too stupid to move to the coasts. Imagine giving people the power to not have to care about said people they regularly proclaim to hate? "Allowing dumping of radioactive waste in those flyover states? Sure why not whose gonna stop them? they can't out vote the costal elites." "Cutting all state aid and benefits to said states? Why not it's not like they can now have any influence over the election......... oh dear we're running out of food cause they were some of the main places that supplied the USA and the benefits and aid helped keep the food prices low....... oh well doesn't matter to the rich it's only the poor who would suffer now".

How much power some states get could be seen as a question but there is a reason for the system from what I can tell.

What a load of bullshit, you are aware that as far as I know every other Democratic country has majority vote and that shit doesn't happen?

If you don't have the capacity for critical thinking and to actually analyse how the Electoral college is clearly used to suppress that which the majority of the country wants that's on you, but that excuse is absolutely pathetic, to abolish such a corrupt system would benefit everyone that isn't the people in power, it would give the people slightly more power to fight against the oppressive government, now in my opinion, not enough power as clearly the whole system needs to go but it would be better than what you currently have.

Now I'm aware that part of it is indoctrination by the government that makes you willing to accept that your government's system is for the good of the people, but just think about it for like 5 minutes, actually analyse what it accomplishes and if you truly believe in a Democratic Capitalist society which I do not, you'll see that it's but a net evil, something completely unnecessary and actively prejudicial to the people, unless for whatever reason you think corporate assholes have the interest of the people at hand, which they obviously don't but whatever.
I'll give it to you that shaking off indoctrination for most of your life must be hard, to me a Mexican it was far easier since the people celebrate Pancho Villa & Emiliano Zapata too much for them to get away with painting them as the villains of the story but they're also forced to tell us how they were defeated and that Zapata the one considered the most virtuous out of all the revolutionaries and if you actually bother studying his Philosophy and plans an Anarchist opposed those who ended up winning the war, so you know kinda hard to paint the current Regime as the good guys when it betrayed those the people considered true heroes so it's easier to escape the indoctrination through that.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

No. That's is not in any shape or form an acceptable answer. Here's what you said, 'we make food so why get to tell everyone else what to do,' Why are 2% of the population so tyrannical, because they are legit being worse than Trump

Why do farmers get to dictate how everyone else lives? If they cared about food that's what they would be talking about. They ARE NOT. They are telling everyone else how to live.

In NO SHAPE OR FORM is that acceptable. It's not acceptable for conservative, progressives, liberal, libertarians or any other job to be so tyrannical. With one expectation... politicians. And you can probably guess how bad I think that is. Farmers are as bad as politicians and it disgusts me

Because some of the 98% would damn the 2% even if it meant damning themselves too.

Because it's about a whole country and shouldn't just be about hyper focussing on industries in costal areas. Because you know if that sector starts to collapse it would be bad.

Because it means actually trying to listen to said people and give an incentive to try and provide something for said people not just abandon them and go "Your fault for not moving to the coast".

Because unlike other areas they don't get to pay massive amounts in to lobby the system from the inside?

What a load of bullshit, you are aware that as far as I know every other Democratic country has majority vote and that shit doesn't happen?

As was pointed out the UK and others don't, also you know the size of the countries plays a fair factor into that.

If you don't have the capacity for critical thinking and to actually analyse how the Electoral college is clearly used to suppress that which the majority of the country wants that's on you, but that excuse is absolutely pathetic, to abolish such a corrupt system would benefit everyone that isn't the people in power, it would give the people slightly more power to fight against the oppressive government, now in my opinion, not enough power as clearly the whole system needs to go but it would be better than what you currently have.

It's funny because before the 2016 election people were on about how great a system it was and how it would make it easy for Hillary to beat Trump and then how it would just stop Trump being elected because of all the dissenters who said they wouldn't vote for him (conveniently ignoring those saying they wouldn't vote Trump were Democrats EC members anyway lol)

Now I'm aware that part of it is indoctrination by the government that makes you willing to accept that your government's system is for the good of the people, but just think about it for like 5 minutes, actually analyse what it accomplishes and if you truly believe in a Democratic Capitalist society which I do not, you'll see that it's but a net evil, something completely unnecessary and actively prejudicial to the people, unless for whatever reason you think corporate assholes have the interest of the people at hand, which they obviously don't but whatever.

No having people constantly fighting helps companies more which would be the ultimate capitalism. That is if you want choices not two parties fighting it out all the time and just a binary choice.

I'll give it to you that shaking off indoctrination for most of your life must be hard, to me a Mexican it was far easier since the people celebrate Pancho Villa & Emiliano Zapata too much for them to get away with painting them as the villains of the story but they're also forced to tell us how they were defeated and that Zapata the one considered the most virtuous out of all the revolutionaries and if you actually bother studying his Philosophy and plans an Anarchist opposed those who ended up winning the war, so you know kinda hard to paint the current Regime as the good guys when it betrayed those the people considered true heroes so it's easier to escape the indoctrination through that.

I'm not American lol I just understand the reasoning for the system. I've likely even said before that I think it could do with balancing out better

 

[Kae]

Because it's about a whole country and shouldn't just be about hyper focussing on industries in costal areas. Because you know if that sector starts to collapse it would be bad.

Yeah, I live in a large country too, so what?
Again this is just some bullshit justification of a fundamentally unjust system.

Because it means actually trying to listen to said people and give an incentive to try and provide something for said people not just abandon them and go "Your fault for not moving to the coast".

Except it doesn't, because they clearly don't listen to the people, they listen to corporate interests only, while twisting the truth in ways that actually greatly damage those same people you are claiming this system benefits, just ask any farmer how much trouble their farming equipment that's illegal to repair has caused them and how little they are being compensated for the very important and vital job that they do.

Because unlike other areas they don't get to pay massive amounts in to lobby the system from the inside?

That applies to the current system too, except it's worse, since they have no voice at all the corporate tools, coal & oil barons get to pretend they are the voice of those people while actively hurting them far more than they are doing the people on the city, they literally want to take away the post office something absolutely vital to those rural communities.

As was pointed out the UK and others don't, also you know the size of the countries plays a fair factor into that.

That explains how they came up with such an ass-backwards system.

It's funny because before the 2016 election people were on about how great a system it was and how it would make it easy for Hillary to beat Trump and then how it would just stop Trump being elected because of all the dissenters who said they wouldn't vote for him (conveniently ignoring those saying they wouldn't vote Trump were Democrats EC members anyway lol)

So?
Why would that matter?
I never said it, and I'm an Anarchist anyway so it doesn't matter what Democrats say, I think Democrats are also horrible authoritarian corporate tools.

No having people constantly fighting helps companies more which would be the ultimate capitalism. That is if you want choices not two parties fighting it out all the time and just a binary choice.

Oh, so you at least have enough self-awareness to notice that having infighting among the proletariat is vital to the success of capitalism, odd that you would still support such an inherently corrupt system.

I'm not American lol I just understand the reasoning for the system. I've likely even said before that I think it could do with balancing out better

It's just that you're such a huge simp for Trump & MAGA that I was convinced you were one of them, in that case my apologies for such a horrible insult, no one in their right mind would want to be 'Murican after all.

 

[Trunkage]

Because some of the 98% would damn the 2% even if it meant damning themselves too.

Because it's about a whole country and shouldn't just be about hyper focussing on industries in costal areas. Because you know if that sector starts to collapse it would be bad.

Because it means actually trying to listen to said people and give an incentive to try and provide something for said people not just abandon them and go "Your fault for not moving to the coast".

Because unlike other areas they don't get to pay massive amounts in to lobby the system from the inside?

Man, IF they did any of that, it would be great. They don't. Instead it's about telling people who they can marry or bed. How my money is spent. Where I'm allowed to live. How people in the city are allowed to work. Because, you know, that helps farmers

Here's your problem. I'm the son of a farmer. I know all the lies farmers tell about city folk. You can't pull that BS past me. I've seen it all before. Again, Id love for what you are saying to be true. It just isnt

Lastly, as to lobbying... a lot of Australian farmers say something along these line, 'An American farmer wouldn't know the difference between a cultivator and a scarifier and probably just use a ripper instead.' Because they know American farmers dont farm. They see how many handouts farmers in America get, ( like hundreds of billions) making it hard for anyone to compete with them. And it's always absolute shit product that no one actually wants to because why would try when your already getting handouts.

But then I usually call these guys clowns because their party sidles up with the Liberals - the big business party here. You know, the samw big businesses who likes to screw over farmers and then blame the consumer. Ever wondered why there is a huge divide between city folk and farmers? Big business telling lies about everyone else so they can earn more profits, thats why.

But hey. Maybe if you just keep saying the line from your pamphlet they might magically come true... like Trump thinking Covid-19 would disappear before Easter