Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

[Secondhand Revenant]

Rupert Murdoch-owned US outlets turn on Trump, urging him to act with 'grace'

Fox News, Wall Street Journal and New York Post all show stark change of tone as their former champion faces ‘presidential endgame’

www.theguardian.com

Here's the start of Trump's fall from grace.

Watch all his enablers turn their backs on him now that he's almost certainly lost. There goes Rupert Murdoch. I'm willing to bet all those political one-time suck-ups like Lindsey Graham won't be taking his calls, either. Without power, Trump's right back to 2015 where he's nothing but a grotesque buffoon.

Now that's gonna be interesting to see, how this goes down with his cronies deciding for distance. That's a thing I think will make a difference in what kind of voice he has after this

 

[Agema]

It's even worse than that for Trump. Deutsche Bank, one of his primary lenders, has indicated that they intend on going after him for the $340 million debt he owes them, as well as looking at ways to disassociate with him entirely.

Deutsche Bank plans to cut ties with Trump after the election and could seize his assets if he can't pay back his debts, Reuters reports

The German lender is seeking to dump millions of dollars of Trump debt and sees a Trump loss as its best exit strategy, officials told Reuters.

www.businessinsider.com

Deutsche Bank are idiots for getting involved with him at all. There's a reason that all the other banks dropped him back in the 90s or so. Given his record, Deutsche Bank must have been horrified at him winning the presidency. I am sure (particularly given the exposure of his failing businesses) that they will be very keen to step away permanently. The question is whether they will be so keen to get away that they let him off a lot of repayment, or whether instead they really go for him. I hope they go for him.

When you look at the occasions Trump basically refused to pay back his loans and forced his creditors through the courts, of course they gave up on him. The thing is, it was partially successful: there's a point where many creditors will find slogging through the case more problematic and costly than just giving up and accepting only partial repayment. Having done it once and it working, Trump of course would then try it again and again. In the end, they refused to lend him money.

This was one of the things about Trump's operations in Russia and Saudi Arabia, where Trump got a lot of funding from. Having been cut off from so much credit in the West due to his bad faith, Trump went to countries which had money sloshing around and wanted investments in the West. And I do absolutely believe Trump's attitude to those countries as president partly reflects the extent to which their investors had been propping up his businesses. I wonder if they'll still be keen on him after his presidency and all its revelations? A man whose success is revealed to be grossly exaggerated is not so an attractive choice.

* * *

It occurs to me that I'm also very concerned what Trump is going to blab about US secrets when he's out of office. He had loose lips even as president, revealing confidential information freely. I'm not necessarily saying he'll deliberately "sell" information to secure loans from abroad, but I absolutely would not be surprised if foreign agents will enter business negotiations and Trump will reveal things he really shouldn't in the process of trying to impress them.

 

[Agema]

Now that's gonna be interesting to see, how this goes down with his cronies deciding for distance. That's a thing I think will make a difference in what kind of voice he has after this

Absolutely.

There's a theory that in 2016, Trump, with his core businesses failing, was angling for an Apprentice-like media explosion from which he could make a ton to cover his losses. But I wonder how much money will be there after his presidency.

I'm not sure the major networks will touch him - he's too controversial. That's a lot of the money unavailable. What he's more likely to have are speeches and other engagements. I can't see him on the after-dinner speeches network: who wants to hear an overgrown man-child with no insight into the world whine self-absorbedly and inarticulately about his opponents? He can try and pack stadia with rabble rousing, but how attractive is that from a has-been? He can possibly get most by basic merchandising selling his image, and we'll just have to see what the returns are for that. But I suspect the second he leaves office he's yesterday's man, and with little oxygen of publicity, such revenue streams would rapidly dry up as everyone moves on.

 

[Seanchaidh]

I thought the Onion was meant to be a parody

If only the media would actually condemn such ludicrous statements.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Absolutely.

There's a theory that in 2016, Trump, with his core businesses failing, was angling for an Apprentice-like media explosion from which he could make a ton to cover his losses. But I wonder how much money will be there after his presidency.

I'm not sure the major networks will touch him - he's too controversial. That's a lot of the money unavailable. What he's more likely to have are speeches and other engagements. I can't see him on the after-dinner speeches network: who wants to hear an overgrown man-child with no insight into the world whine self-absorbedly and inarticulately about his opponents? He can try and pack stadia with rabble rousing, but how attractive is that from a has-been? He can possibly get most by basic merchandising selling his image, and we'll just have to see what the returns are for that. But I suspect the second he leaves office he's yesterday's man, and with little oxygen of publicity, such revenue streams would rapidly dry up as everyone moves on.

1) Trump will claim he was cheated by the MSM being against him offering Trump TV as a different take not controlled by "The elites" or "The Deep state" or something like that
2) Trump launches Trump TV as was claimed he planned to before he won in 2016
3) Trump profits off Trump TV

Not a hard path to figure he'll try and take because you have to bet most of Trump TV was set up or being set up to launch in 2016 and then he had to put it all on hold when he actually won.

 

[tstorm823]

Rupert Murdoch-owned US outlets turn on Trump, urging him to act with 'grace'

Fox News, Wall Street Journal and New York Post all show stark change of tone as their former champion faces ‘presidential endgame’

www.theguardian.com

Here's the start of Trump's fall from grace.

Watch all his enablers turn their backs on him now that he's almost certainly lost. There goes Rupert Murdoch. I'm willing to bet all those political one-time suck-ups like Lindsey Graham won't be taking his calls, either. Without power, Trump's right back to 2015 where he's nothing but a grotesque buffoon.

Oh, come on now. All these people were critical of Trump the whole term, just relatively less critical than you wanted. If you wanna complain about OANN being constant Trumpism, sure, but the rest of the conservative media hasn't hesitated to criticize the president at any point when justified.

Like, my favorite moment of the Kavanaugh hearing was after they put like a 10 day hiatus in, they had Lindsay Graham on camera, and he said in the most exasperated way "Somebody's got to explain this to Trump... I guess that'll be my job." And I laughed out loud.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Okay back

So it looks like Georgia and Arizona are the only States that are still a toss-up.

Alaska and North Carolina are going to Trump. Which we've known for a few days but no one has called it yet

Nevada and Pennsylvania are going to Biden. Which I'm surprised no one has called yet either.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ok I believe you're a sheep shagger.

I don't have to justify it right?

The reason for justification especially when you're trying to convince people.......... Which again part of this whole argument started has been about. Is to actually justify the position rather than hoping a they'll just fall in line.

To clarify, are you saying that Rowling isn't transphobic/a TERF, or that anyone saying she is has to provide proof themselves, or both?

 

[Agema]

1) Trump will claim he was cheated by the MSM being against him offering Trump TV as a different take not controlled by "The elites" or "The Deep state" or something like that
2) Trump launches Trump TV as was claimed he planned to before he won in 2016
3) Trump profits off Trump TV

Firstly, Trump's record at setting up things is not good. That's the thing about his finances that was revealed: his businesses are full of shit. Trump has some very successful properties from his earlier career in the 70s and 80s. After that, there are his failed casinos, his failing golf courses, his failed "university", etc. All those hundreds of millions made from The Apprentice merchandising disappeared into covering losses from the rest of his sprawling empire. Is "Trump TV" really going to be any better? It's got to fight its way past all the other embedded market players. Fox has most to fear, and Fox is well-funded and can realign to squash it.

So don't count on it.

Oh, come on now. All these people were critical of Trump the whole term, just relatively less critical than you wanted. If you wanna complain about OANN being constant Trumpism, sure, but the rest of the conservative media hasn't hesitated to criticize the president at any point when justified.

That's a straw man: I'm not saying media was totally hagiographic because it never is - the customers of media are the viewers, not the politicians. But you cannot deny that Fox (amongst others) assuredly had a good mutual relationship with Trump when he was president, and they fed off each other a great deal.

My point with Lindsey Graham is not that Lindsey Graham likes Trump - in fact quite the opposite. Lindsey Graham and others are your average cynical politicians who do whatever is convenient for themselves. They've sucked up to Trump whilst he was president, and the minute Trump is gone, they won't be able to care less about him. I think there are probably some genuine Trump faithful dotted around in Congress, but they are few on the ground and will soon move on, too.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Okay back

So it looks like Georgia and Arizona are the only States that are still a toss-up.

Alaska and North Carolina are going to Trump. Which we've known for a few days but no one has called it yet

Nevada and Pennsylvania are going to Biden. Which I'm surprised no one has called yet either.

Based on the BBC' numbers

Nevada is 93% done with the count.
Remaining votes (estimated) 93,518
Biden up by 22,657
So not an impossible lead

Pennsylvania is 96% done
Remaining votes (estimated) 276,873
Biden up by 28,833
Not an impossible lead there either

They won't call at present unless the lead becomes unbeatable

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

To clarify, are you saying that Rowling isn't transphobic/a TERF, or that anyone saying she is has to provide proof themselves, or both?

J.K. Rowling such a hater of Trans people who so want them out and gone clearly

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Firstly, Trump's record at setting up things is not good. That's the thing about his finances that was revealed: his businesses are full of shit. Trump has some very successful properties from his earlier career in the 70s and 80s. After that, there are his failed casinos, his failing golf courses, his failed "university", etc. All those hundreds of millions made from The Apprentice merchandising disappeared into covering losses from the rest of his sprawling empire. Is "Trump TV" really going to be any better? It's got to fight its way past all the other embedded market players. Fox has most to fear, and Fox is well-funded and can realign to squash it.

So don't count on it.

He'll likely have just paid whoever Sarah Palin paid for to set up her TV channel before or something like that.
His Casino he turned into a tax write off.
His failing golf course, was it failing before Covid etc?
Trump university was basically help up as a scam anyway where he just operated giving fake qualifications out (and no I don't believe it was to scam gullible marks but for other people who wanted to try and fool gullible employers etc)

Fox could re-align but why bother when if it's about ideological fights another network "on their side" just means they can trade stories with one another etc as is Fox standing on it's own is easy to target but with something else these it could really help split some of the heat it catches.

 

[Satinavian]

Fox could re-align but why bother when if it's about ideological fights another network "on their side" just means they can trade stories with one another etc as is Fox standing on it's own is easy to target but with something else these it could really help split some of the heat it catches.

Any profit Trump would get is profit that Fox could have gotten if Trump TV didn't exist. Overlapping viewer base, overlapping timeslots lost ad placement opportunities.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Any profit Trump would get is profit that Fox could have gotten if Trump TV didn't exist. Overlapping viewer base, overlapping timeslots lost ad placement opportunities.

To be fair Republicans hate Fox News Now. Someone needs to fill in that vacuum

 

[Hawki]

To be fair Republicans hate Fox News Now. Someone needs to fill in that vacuum

Wolf News?

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Okay so from what I've been reading Pennsylvania's next dump of votes are coming 0900 military time which I believe is 9:00 am Eastern Standard Time

 

[Agema]

He'll likely have just paid whoever Sarah Palin paid for to set up her TV channel before or something like that.

Right. And what half-arsed second-rate talents might those guys be? I'll bet you if Trump University had been set up by someone who had the faintest idea what they were doing and adequate backing, that could have been a perfectly good college. Will Trump TV have the investment, knowledge and talent to get anywhere? Because very possibly it's an absurd pipe-dream that if it receives the go-ahead will start a two-bit operation that collapses in a year or two. I say again: what's Trump's record outside the property business, except bad?

As to the rest, his casino failures allowed him a tax write-off, but a tax-write off does nothing but erase losses. It doesn't actually make money. And plenty of his golf courses - including major ones - have been running at a loss for a long time. He lost ~$160M on the Trump Doral 2012-2018, and his European golf clubs lost over $60M in a similar period.

Fox could re-align but why bother when if it's about ideological fights another network "on their side" just means they can trade stories with one another etc as is Fox standing on it's own is easy to target but with something else these it could really help split some of the heat it catches.

Dude. Fox News is a money-making business. It's not there to have ideological media allies for an ultimate political end, it's there to dominate a segment of the marketplace and claim those viewers (and thus revenue) for itself.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

LMAO, how very express.

Trump revenge: Niece warns President will 'bring us down with him'

DONALD TRUMP will unleash an act of sour revenge in his last 76 days as US President if Joe Biden officially wins the US election, his niece Mary Trump has warned.

www.express.co.uk

Pity they didn't lead with their usual "WORLD WAR 3!" this time.

 

[Iron]

To be fair Republicans hate Fox News Now. Someone needs to fill in that vacuum

Fox swapped allegiances this elections. It's still Republican, but it dropped Trump supporters. I guess the Murdoch brothers are betting on Trump leaving the political scene.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

Fox swapped allegiances this elections. It's still Republican, but it dropped Trump supporters. I guess the Murdoch brothers are betting on Trump leaving the political scene.

Here's the thing a lot of people don't understand. Trump isn't going away, at least his influence. He got the second most votes out of any presidential candidate behind the person he was running against. Much of the Republican party is going to model themselves after Trump to capture that magic. Say what you will about Trump but he United the right and created a powerful Cult of Personality.

Trump is the next Reagan. The Republican party is now the Trump party