Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

[Iron]

"Tricked into" a guilty plea that he then stuck with for 2 years until just before sentencing. Sure thing.

One also wonders why he would take a plea if he didn't think he would be found guilty.

You have no idea how many people would rather take a plea-deal rather then have the trial drag on. This here shows that despite what he was promised, he didn't receive a plea deal - the trial still dragged on.

I assume you don't have experience with the judiciary that much. This kind of thing is common here.

 

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[Iron]

I've probably just gone too deep into the rabbit hole, but I've seen Hitler called a race realist and ethnostate nationalist quite a few times. These are the same people who either thinks the Holocaust is a hoax (but should have happened) or didn't get far enough. But yes, as for what Hitler actually was, he certainly was an eugenicist on top of being the OG Nazi.

Sweden was a staunch supporter of eugenics until the late 1970s.

 

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[Iron]

We also founded the first national eugenics institute (the State Institute for Racial Biology) in the world in 1922. How any of this is relevant to a discussion about how people today try to glorify Hitler is beyond me however.

Was Sweden a racist country? Is it still a racist country, since it stopped accepting refugees?

 

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[Iron]

Oh, you're just fishing for a totally unrelated argument. Got it. I hope your day improves if it is so bad that you need to try and pick fights on the internet.

kek my day is great
This is my entertainment on the side. Keep shitting on imaginary people you'll never meet to make yourself feel better, I'll occasionally try and introduce you to reality.

 

[Silvanus]

You have no idea how many people would rather take a plea-deal rather then have the trial drag on. This here shows that despite what he was promised, he didn't receive a plea deal - the trial still dragged on.

I assume you don't have experience with the judiciary that much. This kind of thing is common here.

So, you've just chosen to trust wholesale what he said when he withdrew it, and to dismiss wholesale what he said for the prior 2 years during his cooperation. You've just straightforwardly chosen the story that fits what you want to believe.

Of course, there's quite a good deal of reason to believe his original plea, rather than has hasty redaction: he's got a record of lying in the past (about the Kislyak calls); his withdrawal comes at an extremely convenient time for him, 2 weeks before sentencing; and even his erstwhile allies like Trump have stated explicitly that he lied.

 

[Iron]

So, you've just chosen to trust wholesale what he said when he withdrew it, and to dismiss wholesale what he said for the prior 2 years during his cooperation. You've just straightforwardly chosen the story that fits what you want to believe.

I guarantee you will swap your tune when I show you a story of a black man that was coerced into a confession with false promises of a plea deal or leniency. You're just partisan.

 

[gorfias]

This certainly looks like the beginning of the end.


I had been thinking Trump's chances of pulling this thing out to be about 1/3. I put them at about 1/10 now.

 

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[Silvanus]

I guarantee you will swap your tune when I show you a story of a black man that was coerced into a confession with false promises of a plea deal or leniency. You're just partisan.

Almost as if I'm less likely to trust someone who's already a person-of-interest to the FBI, with a track record of lying, and extensive connections to a hostile foreign power!

 

[ObsidianJones]

I'm confused why we are even talking about Flynn.

Let's just say that after Flynn pleaded guilty, he got railroaded in a way that totally violated the plea deal that was supposedly set into place. Ok. I can one hundred percent get behind that.

Since this happened in December, 2017, that would have meant that was the first year of Trump's term and his administration. So the horrible treatment that was given to poor Flynn was done by an administration we've been saying is corrupt, untrustworthy, and morally bankrupt (which certain parties tell us that we're sore losers for thinking that way and we've never been fair to the Trump Regime).. I mean, yeah. Seemingly par for the course.

This seems like another tick for "These past 4 years sucked with how corrupt and bad this Administration was" tally. But then you have to remind people of the 'conspiracy theory' that Michael Flynn was never going to do any real hard time, and this stalling tactic was just to hold him over while Trump did more stupid things until we all forgot about it. And given that I don't think he served any jail time, that seems eerily close to the truth.

And again, a stunning outcome to what people (namely Judge-type people) have called tantamount to treason.

If this is the hill people choose to die on, maybe gently remind them who owns that hill before they make that sacrifice. Time saver and all.

 

[tstorm823]

I'm confused why we are even talking about Flynn.

Since this happened in December, 2017,

Because the "crime" was taking to a foreign diplomat between the election and the inauguration in December 2016. Biden's team better not be talking policy to anyone outside the country, or they should be tried for treason... apparently. (If it isn't clear, I don't think that should happen, I don't think it should be criminal for an incoming administration to establish diplomatic ties.)

Uhrm... you've got two sets of untrue statements mixed up. The investigation was sparked by Flynn lying to V.P. Pence and Sean Spicer, which James Comey discovered (lie #1). During the investigation, he then lied to the FBI (lie #2).

I know, it's hard to keep it all straight, what with such a huge amount of lying.

Is this really that difficult to understand? Do you believe they accidentally had his phone call recorded and identity unmasked and ready to go when Pence said that phone call hadn't happened to his knowledge? That already an investigation ongoing.

 

[Silvanus]

Is this really that difficult to understand? Do you believe they accidentally had his phone call recorded and identity unmasked and ready to go when Pence said that phone call hadn't happened to his knowledge? That already an investigation ongoing.

Obviously not. He was a person of interest to the FBI already. But that was an investigation into why he'd lied to Pence.

And it was later, during the course of investigation, that he lied to the FBI. It's on the latter that he pled guilty. You see? Nothing is out of order: the lies discovered in the investigation were not the same ones that sparked the investigation in the first place; the lies to Pence were already known, pre-investigation.

 

[Generals]

Is this really that difficult to understand? Do you believe they accidentally had his phone call recorded and identity unmasked and ready to go when Pence said that phone call hadn't happened to his knowledge? That already an investigation ongoing.

Does this even matter? Wasn't the point that Obama allegedly prevented a smooth transition? How does a covert investigation which doesn't prevent anyone from doing their work compare to what Donald Trump has been doing since it was clear he lost? A covert investigation leading to an open one once shady elements have been uncovered is what is supposed to happen, no? Blocking the transition process based on a bunch of baseless accusations which are thrown out of court faster than the speed of light due to a total lack of evidence isn't.

 

[Agema]

Because the "crime" was taking to a foreign diplomat between the election...

Well, not really.

The Obama administration was in office, and had legal power and responsibility. The conversations Flynn had with Kislyak including asking the Russians to take or not take certain actions. That is arguably crossing the line into interference with appointed state officials.

 

[Iron]

Well, not really.

The Obama administration was in office, and had legal power and responsibility. The conversations Flynn had with Kislyak including asking the Russians to take or not take certain actions. That is arguably crossing the line into interference with appointed state officials.

How many world leaders Biden spoke with while Trump is still in office?

 

[Burnhardt]

How many world leaders Biden spoke with while Trump is still in office?

More than a few, nobody is likely to deny that.

But there is a difference between 'Thank you for your congratulatory message on my election victory. I look forward to working with you in the future for the benefit of both our countries/nations', and 'Thank you for your congratulatory message on my election victory. Now I would appreciate it if you would oppose these UN resolutions, or at the very least attempt to delay them before I take office'

 

[tstorm823]

Does this even matter? Wasn't the point that Obama allegedly prevented a smooth transition? How does a covert investigation which doesn't prevent anyone from doing their work compare to what Donald Trump has been doing since it was clear he lost? A covert investigation leading to an open one once shady elements have been uncovered is what is supposed to happen, no? Blocking the transition process based on a bunch of baseless accusations which are thrown out of court faster than the speed of light due to a total lack of evidence isn't.

If what they did to Flynn were to be considered normal precedent for future behaviors, no transition team would be willing to speak to foreign powers in the transition period ever again. If a smooth transition of power is desirable, which I believe that it is, we shouldn't be icing people making connections in advance.