New Call of Duty game let's players be Non-binary

[Kae]

That's even worse... How can Terminal Blue say that "being trans is not debilitating" with such a high suicide rate?

It's only debilitating because of how people act about it, because assholes like you people decide to make it political and question every single aspect of the trans existence.

Do you really think trans people would be as depressed and would have such high suicide rates if people weren't condemning them at every turn?

If taking the medical treatments they need didn't mean an extremely high likelihood of being abandoned by their family and friends?

The trans experience is non-stop abuse, especially when even the government considers trans as sub-human and will literally reduce murderer's sentences if they use the trans panic defense.

The reason why suicide rates are so high is because you're asking them to live an existence in which they will either suffer due to extreme discomfort and a feeling of things both socially and physically being wrong or a lifetime of non-stop verbsl abuse and if they're not white likely physical abuse too.

How is this even hard to understand?

 

[Houseman]

It's only debilitating because of how people act about it

My question is: How are "disorders" defined? Does it matter if it's debilitating because society makes it hard, or does it need to be inherently debilitating?

Would pedophilia no longer be considered a disorder if everyone, children included, were okay with it?

Do you really think trans people would be as depressed and would have such high suicide rates if people weren't condemning them at every turn?

I don't know, that's what I'm asking.

 

[Silvanus]

That's even worse... How can Terminal Blue say that "being trans is not debilitating" with such a high suicide rate?

Because the suicide rate is more than likely caused by the stigma and discrimination, which are outside factors and aren't inherent in gender dysphoria. Stigma and discrimination are debilitating.

 

[Houseman]

Because the suicide rate is more than likely caused by the stigma and discrimination, which are outside factors and aren't inherent in gender dysphoria. Stigma and discrimination are debilitating.

Like I asked Kae,
My question is: How are "disorders" defined? Does it matter if it's debilitating because society makes it hard, or does it need to be inherently debilitating?

Would pedophilia no longer be considered a disorder if everyone, children included, were okay with it?

 

[Silvanus]

Like I asked Kae,
My question is: How are "disorders" defined? Does it matter if it's debilitating because society makes it hard, or does it need to be inherently debilitating?

Something generally needs to directly cause debilitation in order for it to be classified as a 'disorder'. Otherwise, absolutely anything could be a 'disorder' based on the transient prejudices of the people around you. Being Protestant would become a 'disorder' in a Catholic area, and being Catholic would become a 'disorder' in a Protestant area. The classification would become so malleable as to be meaningless.

Besides which, the classification is used by practitioners to determine how to address something. If the individual has a disorder, then the practitioner needs to address the individual. If the individual is only debilitated by outside actors, then they need protection (and society needs to get its shit together).

Would pedophilia no longer be considered a disorder if everyone, children included, were okay with it?

If absolutely everyone had zero ill effects, then I suppose theoretically it wouldn't be a disorder, though that scenario isn't possible. But then you've removed the 'debilitation' element completely.

 

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[Houseman]

Something generally needs to directly cause debilitation in order for it to be classified as a 'disorder'.

The APA considers it a disorder if it impedes the person's ability to function in society.

So, these seem to contradict. Silvanus said that "Being Protestant would become a 'disorder' in a Catholic area", but according to Gethsemani, if it impedes your ability to function in society, it's a disorder, so being Protestant in a Catholic area could be a disorder if the Catholics decide to make life hard for you.

 

[Elijin]

Stop humouring Houseman.

In this topic he has done things like suggesting any non straight orientation is a mental defect. His current reasoning is to draw parallels between paedophilia and gender issues in order to provoke emotive reactions.

He is not arguing in good faith, "just asking questions" or whatever nonsense posturing he's using this week to mask his shit stirring.

I feel bad for the trans and NB people present who get to watch page after page of people debating their validity and discussing how mentally damaged they are or are not.

I encourage people to disengage with this topic, it's just giving assholes a platform to be assholes with "science".

 

[Silvanus]

So, these seem to contradict. Silvanus said that "Being Protestant would become a 'disorder' in a Catholic area", but according to Gethsemani, if it impedes your ability to function in society, it's a disorder, so being Protestant in a Catholic area could be a disorder if the Catholics decide to make life hard for you.

It has to be the characteristic itself making life hard for you; it doesn't count if it's just other people deciding, based on their own prejudices, to make life hard for you. That doesn't contradict Gethsemani's definition. In the example you gave, Protestantism is not what's making life hard; the prejudice of others is.

I can't help but think this is obvious, so as Elijin suggests, I'm gonna stop responding to this particular train of conversation.

 

[BrawlMan]

It has to be the characteristic itself making life hard for you; it doesn't count if it's just other people deciding, based on their own prejudices, to make life hard for you. That doesn't contradict Gethsemani's definition. In the example you gave, Protestantism is not what's making life hard; the prejudice of others is.

I can't help but think this is obvious, so as Elijin suggests, I'm gonna stop responding to this particular train of conversation.

Thank you. someone like Housemen never wants to learn nor understands other people's plights that are different from him. I appreciate what you, @Elijin, and @Gethsemani for what you were trying to do. People like him only care about themselves and will happily mock or pretend like they don't know what horrible things others are going through. Just another guy that likes to hear the sound of his own voice and act like he's the smartest one in the room.

 

[Houseman]

It has to be the characteristic itself making life hard for you

The characteristic itself making life hard for you... in society, right?

For example, you could have a horrible aversion to wearing clothes. In our societies that would be a disorder. In a nudist society, that wouldn't be a disorder, right?
Or maybe like you said the prejudice against nudity is the actual problem, not the aversion to wearing clothes, so it's not a disorder?
Which is it?

 

[Kae]

My question is: How are "disorders" defined? Does it matter if it's debilitating because society makes it hard, or does it need to be inherently debilitating?

Would pedophilia no longer be considered a disorder if everyone, children included, were okay with it?

I will only bother answering the first question.

Why do you care?

I'm not an expert in the field so it's not my business to decide, however I fail to understand why it matters, do you care if the person walking by the street has manic depressive disorder?

Does it matter to you if a co-worker has bipolar disorder?

The truth is that it doesn't really matter you're just looking for excuses to put people down, to consider them lesser, so honestly just fuck off, let people live their lives without getting all uppity about it, and this whole looking down on people with mental illnesses has to stop, thanks to the stigma associated with it a lot of people avoid the treatment they need, so seriously just fuck off.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Stop humouring Houseman.

He is not arguing in good faith, "just asking questions" or whatever nonsense posturing he's using this week to mask his shit stirring.

^This.

I sometimes check in on a topic (as in this case) just to see how bad it's gotten out of morbid curiosity.



(And yes, I spent 14 seconds making a personalized meme because he's that "special.")

 

[Houseman]

and this whole looking down on people with mental illnesses has to stop

Didn't I just say:

Everybody knows that autism is a mental defect. Nobody is claiming that it devalues who you are as a person, or that you should be treated as lesser, or that you shouldn't have as many rights, or that you are obliged to have corrective brain surgery, or that you should just die.

Mental defects are, for a lack of a better term, okay. They're not ideal, but it's not a death sentence either.

Even if being gay or trans or non-binary or anything other than "cis and happy about it" is a mental defect... so what?

So, taking into account what I said above, what makes you think I'm "looking down" on anyone, putting anyone down, or considering anyone as lesser?

Why do you care?

I'm not an expert in the field so it's not my business to decide, however I fail to understand why it matters, do you care if the person walking by the street has manic depressive disorder?

Does it matter to you if a co-worker has bipolar disorder?

If mental illnesses, defects, or disorders aren't recognized as such, but treated as "normal", it puts those people in a dangerous situation, such as the high suicide rate. One wonders whether or not those lives could be saved.

What's more important, a parade, or preventing a suicide?

 

[BrawlMan]

^This.

I sometimes check in on a topic (as in this case) just to see how bad it's gotten out of morbid curiosity.

View attachment 1793

(And yes, I spent 14 seconds making a personalized meme because he's that "special.")

Exactly why I tend to ignore him and don't give him anything a majority of the time. Nearly everything's a joke or game to him.

 

[Kae]

Didn't I just say:



So, taking into account what I said above, what makes you think I'm "looking down" on anyone, putting anyone down, or considering anyone as lesser?



If mental illnesses, defects, or disorders aren't recognized as such, but treated as "normal", it puts those people in a dangerous situation, such as the high suicide rate. One wonders whether or not those lives could be saved.

What's more important, a parade, or preventing a suicide?

Then investigate it, find out if it is.

Officially it's not, but there are mental disorders associated with being trans that some trans people suffer but others do not, the state of being trans is more associated with a phenomenon referred to as "Gender Euphoria" which is a sort of satisfaction or comfort associated with performing an action assosciated with whatever you picture yourself as, that could be anything from wearing a dress or a binder or whatever, however medically a lot of clinics require that you suffer from a disorder referred to as "gender dysphoria" which is a discomfort or anxiety associated with performing the gender you were born as, commonly for people assigned female at birth this has to do with discomfort with their chest or voice and for people assigned male at birth with having large amounts of body hair, broad shoulders and such.

There are other mental disorders that are common in transgender people such as "impostor syndrome", "Depersonalisation Disorder" and "Derealization disorder" as well as Manic Depressive disorder, of course there are other things those are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head, but these are all things I found out by researching in the Internet and asking people, in any case I will not participate further in this discussion as during this month I've had to talk two different trans people out of suicide and as such I don't believe I can continue this discussion in a calm manner.

So anyways, if you want your answer you can consult medical journals but officially being transgender isn't a disorder and if you want to prevent suicide it's very easy, just don't question people on what they are, stop treating them like freaks, stop using slurs, show them empathy and such, as for mental care there are psychologists specialising in this field and the first step generally recommended to transgender people is to talk with them, but like I've mentioned before, this isn't really your business to be questioning around on the Internet, if you really cared you would have researched this already I have it's not hard at all, though granted I'll admit my intentions are more that I'm may be suffering from one or more of the disorders that were previously mentioned (I don't know yet it takes time to diagnose) and as such I wanted to know everything that could imply, but still all the information is available on the net if you really care, there's no need for anyone here to answer your questions.

 

[Houseman]

I've had to talk two different trans people out of suicide...
...if you want to prevent suicide it's very easy

I wouldn't want to have to find out how easy or hard it is to prevent suicide. I also wouldn't want to have that burden. I would hope that mental health professionals would make it so that task does not fall to you or I. It seems that they are not very successful in doing that.

 

[Kae]

I wouldn't want to have to find out how easy or hard it is to prevent suicide. I also wouldn't want to have that burden. I would hope that mental health professionals would make it so that task does not fall to you or I. It seems that they are not very successful in doing that.

Look, Houseman, I'm aware of what you're trying to imply there and I won't take it.

Yes dealing with suicidal people is hard, I'm 100% not qualified for it and it has affected me a lot, emotionally I'm a mess right now and the pressure of saying the wrong thing is horrifying, I still feel like if they choose to through with it, it's my fault for not saying the correct words and I'm still following up with them because I don't want it to be my fault.

What I meant to say with that line is that all you need to do is stop it with this judgemental crap, if you're too stupid to understand that, that is none of my concern, I've talked with them, and they are just people that wish to be treated like people, these kinds of discussions imply there's something wrong with their lifestyle and that needs to stop, like I said if you truly are concerned with their well-being and want them to see a doctor instead of talking with some random on the Internet, that they talked to because they were to afraid to see a professional because they were minors and needed to tell their parents in order to do so, so yes if you want them to see a doctor first we need to get rid of the stigma around it so that they aren't scared to go see them, that's why it's important that you stop treating them like a disease and that you stop acting like it's weird, acceptance with these issues is very important, like I said if you cared you would stop trying to annoy people on the Internet by asking these questions and instead would actually research them and reach out to trans people with empathy.

But of course you instead choose to focus on a part of what I said that seems inconsistent because you're such a nice empathetic person that really cares, and you would never try to get a rise out of someone that just admitted to having gone through a really traumatic experience.

Seriously Houseman, try to be a better person you suck.

 

[Houseman]

so yes if you want them to see a doctor first we need to get rid of the stigma around it so that they aren't scared to go see them,

I wholeheartedly agree.

Similarly "there's nothing wrong with you, this is just the way you are, it's normal and natural", certainly prevents people from seeing the doctors they need to see, doesn't it?

that's why it's important that you stop treating them like a disease and that you stop acting like it's weird, acceptance with these issues is very important,

Isn't recognizing the disease the first step to getting to see the doctor? I'm confused, do you want people to see doctors, or do you want "acceptance"?
If your leg is broken, you don't "accept" it, you go see a doctor, right?

If parents and children were on the same page, that this is something that urgently needs a doctor, then where's the issue?

But of course you instead choose to focus on a part of what I said that seems inconsistent because you're such a nice empathetic person that really cares, and you would never try to get a rise out of someone that just admitted to having gone through a really traumatic experience.

Maybe I have a disorder? Maybe I don't process emotions like you do? Maybe my questions and statements have no hidden subtext, and I merely mean exactly what I say? You already admitted that you can't consider this subject with calmness, so maybe that's clouding your judgement?

 

[blockhead77]

Captain Fishquiff at your service!

Someone needs to make fanart of this.