2019-2020 coronavirus pandemic (Vaccination 2021 Edition)
- Thread starter McElroy
- Start date
Well, to be fair, Labour needed some votes and convinced some Nationals to pass the NBN.... by starting in some country area. Which is a grest lesson in economics because 1. It made it way more expensive 2. It delayed progress trying to lay that much cable 3. It made sure the time the NBN was better than most of the world was long past, defeating its entire purpose
But, yes, the Liberals took that and somehow made it worse. First stop, give it to Telstra, a company that needs to just die
All i know, is, i got an awesome mobile phone plan because i knew one of their store staff. :3
Ugh. Donald Trump has been banging on about hydroxychloroquine again. He says he is taking a tablet a day.
He says it does not do any harm - contrary to medical advice, including the FDA's guidance that it should only be administered under strict medical care (i.e. it's hardly aspirin, is it?) When this was pointed out to Trump, he said "That's not what I was told."
His cabinet was asked whether anyone else was taking hydroxychloroquine. Silence, until Trump cut in by saying "Many of them would take it if they thought it was necessary".
A recent study also arrived showing hydroxychloroquine was unlikely to be effective: in fact significantly more patients on the drug died then those not, to which Trump replied: "If you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in very bad shape. They were very old. Almost dead. It was a Trump enemy statement." (My bold.)
<Sigh>
He says it does not do any harm - contrary to medical advice, including the FDA's guidance that it should only be administered under strict medical care (i.e. it's hardly aspirin, is it?) When this was pointed out to Trump, he said "That's not what I was told."
His cabinet was asked whether anyone else was taking hydroxychloroquine. Silence, until Trump cut in by saying "Many of them would take it if they thought it was necessary".
A recent study also arrived showing hydroxychloroquine was unlikely to be effective: in fact significantly more patients on the drug died then those not, to which Trump replied: "If you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in very bad shape. They were very old. Almost dead. It was a Trump enemy statement." (My bold.)
<Sigh>
And now he's saying that the US having the largest volume of infections and deaths is a "badge of honor" because it must mean we're doing really well on the testing.
This settles it once and for all. Trump does not know how cause and effect work.
This settles it once and for all. Trump does not know how cause and effect work.
If he gets sick from it or dies (from this or Covid), I'm certainly not going to shed a tear for him. Pence might have the election in the bag and while I have no love for the fucker, at least he's probably comptent(which is more then I can say for his boss).
Sure he does. If it's something that he considers good, he gets all the credit. If it's something he hates or doesn't understand or makes him look bad(which is a lot of things), It's Obama's fault.
I'm honestly shocked he isn't blaming this on Hillary.
I'm gonna paraphase Futurama here.
Us : Why is the Economy worth dying for?
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And now they are giving hydroxychloroquine to people in Australia, presumably because the US told them to pretend to take Trump seriously.
I think they reasonably can. If the patients agree, it's deemed to be not that serious they're desperate, etc. then why not?
Hydroxychloroquine may still be useful against covid-19 - for some people in some circumstances - and we may as well test to see if so and in what situations. But it is at best random and at worst insane to be aggressively promoting it from the presidential pulpit on the basis of nothing much at all. Why not remdesivir or favipravir, or dozens more drugs under testing? And it is certainly undue politicisation to start claiming that any studies that disagree with the president's whim are motivated by political hostility.
I have family that are still creationist. Even they think Trump is a moron, so I dont know how well that's going to work
It's possibly hydroxy can help in the early stages. However, if hydroxy can help, then it's most likely a natural drug (found in foods) Quercetin + zinc can do the same thing and without the side effects. But nobody can make money off Quercetin so...
Remdesivir is definitely the better option but also probably in the lowest supply, you can't give it to everyone that tests positive for example when 99% of them we'll be fine regardless. Hydroxy isn't in the highest supply either so it's not like everyone can just be taking it everyday, there were shortages of it like a month ago already. I don't know anything about favipravir though.
Well it's not about the science, and the fact he has called the VA study anti-Trump makes it most likely this has become another sacred item in the moronic culture war to own the libs.
So doctors in Australia are combatants in the moronic culture war to own the libs, and will put patients at risk to do so?
I've heard way too many people in the last month who are willing to sacrifice their fellow citizens just to keep the economy going to not believe that this could be true. Like, guys, you're meant to keep those things secret, not say it on national TV
And, if it is true, he shouldnt be a doctor
Have you considered that quarantine also kills people? That opening the economy also saves lives, and you don't know what the proportion there is?
That's fair. It's also fair to allege that you don't know what the proportion is, either. So it would make sense to listen to experts.
Have you considered that not quarantining will destroy the economy too? And we don't know what the proportion is?
I compare Sweden to my country. When we diverged from their lighter shutdown, we had similar deaths and cases. (note Sweden's population is less than half of Australia.)
Current unemployment rate is 6.2 (up from 5.3) in Australia. Sweden is 7.1 (up from 6.0 and both at the start of this month.)
Current deaths in Australia is 100. Current deaths in Sweden 3831. So many deaths for so little gain.
Nobody cares if you are open for business. Everyone cares if you can make them safe while at your business. Obviously, everyone estimation of safety is relative but not taking that into account will be just about as detrimental as doing a shut down. Many businesses shut down voluntarily before the governors decreed it, because they couldn't keep their workers or customers safe... And that means they were losing business.
Also, the clowns turning up to business demanding to be allowed in with a mask is just about as detrimental as the shut down. They may not give Covid to anyone, but they are inducing fear far better than the media or Trump can. They are actively making sure any shut downs last longer and they are crippling the economy
Edit: Pretending that we can go back to normal may be as damaging to the economy as any shut down
The most likely deaths are suicide and domestic violence. The USA has ~45,000 suicides a year, and about 2000 domestic violence murders. Call it 3000 a month combined. Currently, nearly 100,000 people have died of coronavirus in about 2 months, so 50,000 a month. So all in all, I think it's very unlikely quarantine deaths anywhere close to coronavirus unless there's been a truly staggering uptick.
Of course, we might also note the USA has about 40,000 deaths a year from thing like traffic accidents. Quarantine should have reduced that plenty in the last two months.
There's no evidence it's being widely used at all here.
There is a rightwing nutbag politician pushing its use and claiming it's responsible for the low death rate, with no evidence. (not Trump, Clive Palmer)
Prominent advertisements paid for by former federal politician Clive Palmer which promote a malaria drug as a potential “cure” for Covid-19 are “ethically immoral” according to Prof Peter Collignon, a former World Health Organization advisor who worked on Australia’s response to the Sars virus.
The two-page ad in the Australian states the drug, hydroxychloroquine, when combined with another medication could “wipe out the virus in test tubes” and Australia’s drugs regulator, the Therapeutic Goods Administration [TGA], is now investigating whether the ad breaches drugs advertising rules. The ad says Palmer – who has headed several failed businesses and has been hit with criminal charges following an investigation by the corporate regulator – had agreed to personally fund the acquisition or manufacture of 1m doses “to ensure all Australians would have access to the drug as soon as possible”.
The ad also quotes the leader of an Australian clinical trial for the drug who describes the combined treatment as a “cure,” even though the trial is yet to begin or receive ethics approval. The ad ran despite the TGA warning that the drug and its derivatives “pose well-known serious risks to patients including cardiac toxicity potentially leading to sudden heart attacks, irreversible eye damage and severe depletion of blood sugar potentially leading to coma”.
TGA investigating Clive Palmer-funded ads claiming hydroxychloroquine can cure coronavirus
Queensland businessman has pledged to fund 1m doses, despite warnings it can lead to heart attacks, eye damage and comawww.theguardian.com
I don't know that, correct. Almost every country on the planet is moving to open. Do none of them have experts?
You're comparing a sparsely populated island in the southern hemisphere to a country in Europe. The difference in death has little to do with the response. Current deaths in Canada: 6031. Was Canada too economically open? Don't confuse good fortune for good policy.
I think you missed the biggest two: overdoses and neglected healthcare. My county is relatively untouched by covid, we've had like 15 deaths total. At the same time, we jumped from 10 overdose deaths a month to about 30 since we locked down. And then between the hospitals cancelling a lot of "elective" procedures and people generally avoiding the hospitals at all costs, a lot of people's health is being neglected. That's the insidiousness of the "deaths year over year" suggestion people make. Imagine an older man gets stressed over the lockdown and has chest pains that might be a heart attack, and then decides not to go to the hospital to avoid covid, and then dies of the heart attack. People would say covid caused that death, and I agree in a sense, but that doesn't help if we're trying to figure out how much caution is justified around the virus itself.
Additionally, the comparison isn't covid deaths vs additional non-covid deaths, because nobody dying of covid-19 isn't an option. The comparison would be to the covid deaths actually prevented. Which, I understand, is a practically impossible analysis. But that was the whole point of those flatten the curve graphs. In theory, by avoiding overburdening of the hospitals, you prevent the majority of the preventable deaths. We might not have succeeded at that in New York City and a few other early outbreaks, but at this point it seems the hospitals everywhere are doing just fine, so it's unclear what deaths are being prevented rather than just being a delayed eventuality. I'll put it this way: it doesn't matter to the analysis if 100,000 have died and 1,000,000 deaths have been prevented if further lockdown is going to save 10 covid deaths and kill 50 more elsewhere. That the scales of the numbers are so far apart is irrelevant to the cost benefit analysis of further action.
Other than multiple major clinical trials on it's effectiveness that are being widely criticized based on explicitly inconclusive small studies from America.